DCC Software

[Steamplug]

Hi all looking for some software to automate some elements of my layout scheduling etc any recommendations out there? Currently using a Hornby elink to connect to my laptop but I’m open to a change, what u guys using?

[Suzie]

RR&Co is probably the easiest software to do automatic scheduling of trains. If you want something for free then Rocrail is probable a good choice. 

[NIK]

Depends entirely on what you want to do. Do you want to fully automate your layout via PC control? If not, forget pretty much all of those software packages. Because that's what they're designed to do and a prerequisite for doing it. If you want a signal to return to red after a train has past, or a road crossing closing on the approach of a train, consider he advantages of LocoNet. This is actually a communication bus, but it allows decoders to react directly to specific messages on the bus from particular feedback modules. LocoNet is a system from Digitrax (and provided throughout their product range), but also supported by a number of EU manufacturers, like Uhlenbrock, ESU and Roco on selected models in their ranges (mainly higher end, price wise). For a simple form of block system, get acquainted with the Lenz ABC system, which is also supported by several other manufacturers, but not all. None of the above require a computer to operate.

 

 

Hi all looking for some software to automate some elements of my layout scheduling etc any recommendations out there? Currently using a Hornby elink to connect to my laptop but I’m open to a change, what u guys using?

Hi,

 

TrainController by Railroad and Co I've found very good for automation although I don't know whether it supports the Hornby E-link I imagine it does now.

 

I'm currently slowly learning what JMRI can do.

 

I've struggled with the level of documentation with Rocrail.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Phil S]

When you say 'some elements' it can depend very much on which ones you mean!

Route selection and associated display is a good start.... Some controllers have route setting built in....this can include the appropriate signals too (any accessory).

Lgb provided some automation for the garden railway by having detectors which triggered virtual points/ events or physical ones... Such as changing the point and signals on a reverse loop from a magnet triggered feedback module.

The supplied mtz/MTS software is still available from it's author and called Stellewerk. And supports other systems.

Trai - tech have introduced a range of signals which optically detect the passing train and are also linked with 1 wire to the next signal.

 

The commercial computer control programs which are used to run the likes of miniature Wunderland or railz in Rotterdam

Require extensive use of feedback detectors, and profiling of the trains... Which is where my excursion into trying 'full' control on a small 3m layout fell into problems and conflicts with sound fitted locos..... Sound fitted locos usually have ,'slow' CV values to match the sound sequences... Including starting delay. However the computer wants instant' control response so that IT can make the precision controlled stops. On small layouts i found a risk of locos running onto the next detector which the confused the software!trams with rapid acceleration and deceleration were the ideal subject for a small automated layout.

 

A recent thread here described home brew software tracking trains and displaying timetable info...often also seen with cards for sequences at shows....a Sinclair z80 81 or spectrum was once popular for such displays.

Now a raspberry pi is cheaper and more portable. 1" screens too Rocrail can run on a pi... And can talk express net and other protocs....so you could produce a timetable display that also sets routes and makes announcements.

Minimal feedback required if that is sufficient automation for you.?

Open DCC is also a cheap source of express stop link, and i have recently discovered a Czech company producing a (panel) encoder to expressnet board ready made; progressing from the Paco mod of the Mike Bolton merg Original encoder to DCC.

 

You already have a elink which with rail master offers some basic automation without feedback.... Nothing has been heard lately of the Hornby feedback detectors... Perhaps with the new management this will appear??

[RAF96]

eLink will only work with Railmaster as it has no user controls (knobs/buttons) so if you want to introduce other elements other than simple diode control of the DCC signal then you are going to need a different controller.

Rob

[johnd]

eLink will only work with Railmaster as it has no user controls (knobs/buttons) so if you want to introduce other elements other than simple diode control of the DCC signal then you are going to need a different controller.

Rob

I wonder if he means he is using Hornby railmaster connected to his layout through an e-link.

Edited October 31, 2017 by johnd

[WIMorrison]

...“Open DCC is also a cheap source of express stop link, and i have recently discovered a Czech company producing a (panel) encoder to expressnet board ready made; progressing from the Paco mod of the Mike Bolton merg Original encoder to DCC”...

 

Any chance of posting the details of the Czech company please?

[NIK]

eLink will only work with Railmaster as it has no user controls (knobs/buttons) so if you want to introduce other elements other than simple diode control of the DCC signal then you are going to need a different controller.

Rob

 

Hi,

 

I'm confused by the above.

 

I believe SPROG has no user controls yet it works with at least JMRI and Train Controller.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Steamplug]

Hi all thanks for all the responses just for a bit of clarity, im laying down the track on 4 line mainline layout which has 2 island stations and a second level terminus it also has 2 separate goods yards.

Im looking to schedule some trains to travel the mainline with a bit of tail chasing and in and out of the terminus station on occasion so this would include automatic switching of points as required etc signals will be mechanically wired to the hattons point motors so no need for signal switching.

This will allow me to spend some time manually controlling other trains either also on the mainline or in and around the shunting yards so the whole layout has a good deal of motion.

Ive currently got e-link & railmaster but that is the limit of my experience so im looking for a steer on other setups before i spend huge amounts of time on the software side.

Cheers in advance.

[Crosland]

eLink will only work with Railmaster as it has no user controls (knobs/buttons) so if you want to introduce other elements other than simple diode control of the DCC signal then you are going to need a different controller.

Rob

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm confused by the above.

 

I believe SPROG has no user controls yet it works with at least JMRI and Train Controller.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

It means the eLink will ONLY work with Railmaster, not with any other software packages. I guess Hornby have not made the protocol public. It has no other user input so you have to use Railmaster.

 

The SPROG has an open protocol allowing support by more than one software product.

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi all thanks for all the responses just for a bit of clarity, im laying down the track on 4 line mainline layout which has 2 island stations and a second level terminus it also has 2 separate goods yards.

Im looking to schedule some trains to travel the mainline with a bit of tail chasing and in and out of the terminus station on occasion so this would include automatic switching of points as required etc signals will be mechanically wired to the hattons point motors so no need for signal switching.

This will allow me to spend some time manually controlling other trains either also on the mainline or in and around the shunting yards so the whole layout has a good deal of motion.

Ive currently got e-link & railmaster but that is the limit of my experience so im looking for a steer on other setups before i spend huge amounts of time on the software side.

Cheers in advance.

 

OK, that helps.     I wonder if you've actually considered the hardware needed first, the software is perhaps the simpler (and cheaper) matter.

 

 

I think the next step is to decide how the trains will be stopped at signals.   There are three main approaches to this issue, and the chosen option will influence what stuff you need. 

 

1 - like RailMaster, its just "blind estimates/guesswork"   Which probably doesn't work for anything beyond the most trivial. 

2 - trackside and loco mounted stop methods, such as Asymmetric DCC braking (also called "Lenz ABC", though available in some other maker's decoders including ESU and Zimo), or Brake on DC (available in more decoders). 

3 - train detection hardware which can spot something passing the location.  

 

Option (3) is the most flexible, but its also the most expensive to install.   Requires detectors in the track (either along track segments, or at specific single spot locations) and that information goes back to the computer through an appropriate mechanism.  Once in the computer, it can "follow" a train around the layout and give instructions to stop or go as appropriate, set the turnouts for the train, etc..

 

Option (2) isn't overly expensive if you can fit suitable decoders.   The brake signal is a very cheap component (for Asymmetric DCC braking its less than 50p per section if you make the bits yourself, somewhat more if you buy them ready built).   But, it requires compatible decoders.   This will stop the train before a signal, and when the signal is cleared, permit the train to proceed.  Depending on the layout, it might not be quite as automated as option (2), but its a fraction of the hardware required.   You might be able to use this in conjunction with the Elink and Railmaster software. 

 

 

Having got some of that answered, it might be possible to proceed. 

 

If new software is being chosen, then I think the Elink will have to be replaced.  I doubt other packages actually support that bit of hardware.  (And from my experience in debugging the Hornby Elite for one bit of software, the interface to the Hornby device is likely to be a mess). 

[Phil S]

The Czech link is :   http://www.digi-cz.info/  - I recommend using Chrome as it will auto translate the pages for you [although an 'english' or 'german' button is also on each page] .  Payment may be paid by Paypal transfer when invoiced.       There are also 'versions' of Roco Multimaus - down to a push button Up/down style with no function  buttons = the commonaility being Expressnet.     These are not 'kits' or 'fully assembled'  - but the PCB assemby is done, the firmware is loaded, but you buy your own box, wires, and buttons/switches for control panels. Well described on the site for each product.  My first modules are due in about 20 days.

 

OpenDCC is aother useful source of kits for DCC.

 

I thought the e-link used Expressnet (as Hornby claim this on almost every DCC box - even for decoders which do NOT use expressnet !!!!)

Have a look at the Rocrail website to see if they include the elink in amongst the Lenz category ?  The elite is included somewhere.

 

(The device / combination NOT supported by RocRail is the MultiCentralePro on a PC - because that comes with 'Rocomotion 5.9' - the variant of RR+Co that I use .... it IS supported if you use Linux - and the Pi3 is MUCH faster than the Pi1 I first tried !!)

[Steamplug]

So just been looking at a reasonably priced dynamis on the hattons website would I be able to link this up to 3rd party software to get what I need?

[Nigelcliffe]

So just been looking at a reasonably priced dynamis on the hattons website would I be able to link this up to 3rd party software to get what I need?

 

No.   Because you've not defined what you're going to do with it. 

 

As supplied, a Dynamis has no mechanism for getting information from the layout back to the computer.   Same goes for anything Hornby supply.    

And, until you decide "which software", its impossible to say if the chosen hardware is supported or not.    (But, if its Hornby or Bachmann, chances are its not supported, or the support is minimal. ). 

[Nigelcliffe]

I thought the e-link used Expressnet (as Hornby claim this on almost every DCC box - even for decoders which do NOT use expressnet !!!!)

Have a look at the Rocrail website to see if they include the elink in amongst the Lenz category ?  The elite is included somewhere.

 

Yes, Hornby use Xpressnet. But from my experience, they managed to mess it up.   My experience was with JMRI and trying to debug what was going wrong with Hornby Elite.   JMRI works perfectly to proper Xpressnet devices, such as those from Lenz.   The Elite fails to tell the computer that it has to pause, or that it has failed to execute an instruction.  Net result is that if you send two instructions in close succession to the Elite you've no idea if the first or second will be actioned.   Which makes setting two turnouts in a very simple route a complete lottery - you've no idea which will work.   The only solution found at that time was to put a massive delay loop into the computer code and send sequential instructions with big gaps between each, which makes control very very slow.   (And in the case I was debugging, awful experience because it was changing colour light signals, and what you'd see is the red go out, then wait a couple of seconds and the yellow would come on, then wait a few seconds and the direction feather would illuminate,.... and so on.    Eventually the person I was helping agreed with me it was simpler to give up and use different hardware which could respond without any visible delays.  ).    

 

From that experience, unless someone at RocRail is going to stand up and say "we've tested an Elite on a real layout, and the code we have for telling the Elite to set a sequence of turnouts is reliable and fast", then I wouldn't trust it.  

[Steamplug]

No. Because you've not defined what you're going to do with it.

 

As supplied, a Dynamis has no mechanism for getting information from the layout back to the computer. Same goes for anything Hornby supply.

And, until you decide "which software", its impossible to say if the chosen hardware is supported or not. (But, if its Hornby or Bachmann, chances are its not supported, or the support is minimal. ).

[Steamplug]

See earlier post on what I need the setup to do, as I’m pretty new to dcc I’m looking for some help on the best setup. I’m more than happy to swap hardware out and pick up whatever software I need.

[Steamplug]

So thoughts on prodigy advance? Would this work for me and if so what software to pair it with?

[Steamplug]

So thoughts on prodigy advance? Would this work for me and if so what software to pair it with?

[Nigelcliffe]

I refer you back to posting number 12.   Which approach do you want to take to stop the trains at signals ?  

Until you address that style of question, randomly suggesting different systems isn't going to get you anywhere. 

 

 

For what its worth, the Prodigy has almost no computer software support, and the little that exists is hamstrung by the lack of capabilities available to a computer in the Prodigy device.   

 

 

If really determined to do things down the route of " I'll buy this system first, then work out how to do all the sensor stuff needed later, then work out the software options "  (which is completely the wrong way round!), then the system makers least likely to box you into a corner will include Digitrax, ESU, Lenz, Roco, Uhlenbrock.    But, approaching things that way is likely to encounter a lot of expensive wrong turns.  

[Steamplug]

Nigelcliffe my wife keeps picking me up for not listening so I’m working on it, I like the look of the Lenz abc, and as I’m in he process of purchasing some more decoders I will opt for this. Thanks for the advice.

[ianjeffery]

In terms of stopping at stations , or sidings...

 

you could use this module

 

http://www.lenzusa.com/1newsite1/BM1.html

 

which uses ASB ( i think it lowers the voltage on one rail, which you tell the decoder ( such as zimo ) to look out for, and stop when it detects it ). Once the "effected" rail gets the correct voltage again off the train goes.

 

"A normal DCC signal is symmetrical meaning that the positive voltage and negative voltage is the same. In asymmetrical DCC there is a slight difference between the positive and negative components of the DCC signal.  This is achieved by feeding the DCC signal through a set of diodes, three diodes in one direction and two diodes in the other direction. The information transmitted to the decoder can be further modulated by modulating the time the DCC signal is symmetrical and when it is asymmetrical."

 

you could then use something like an arduino to throw a switch/relay to restore the balance ( anakin skywalker ) and set the train off again. you could also use arduino nanos / minis and hall effect sensors to locate trains on track etc. etc...

[RAF96]

Here's a plan for the Lenz BM1 module for starters in various sizes. Edit: Apologies for the diodes not being drawn as standard symbols.

 

 

This is the finished article...

 

 

The BM2 & 3 modules are a bit more complex and although I have a schematic for a back engineered BM2 it isn't mine so I can't share it.

 

​Rob

Edited November 3, 2017 by RAFHAAA96

[ianjeffery]

i was hoping someone would write a link to some of the diodes :-)

how did you create the break ? is it the marker pen on the rails ?

[Trip]

About two years ago I was in the same position as OP. 

 

After a lot of experimenting I ended up with a cheap second hand Digitrax DCS50 as a command station, a Locobuffer USB to connect that to a PC and JMRI as the software. For block detection I use rr-cirkits watchman and inductor coils. I use DCC Concepts cobalt IP digital turnout motors.

 

With that lot I can automate everything I want including stopping at platforms.  Loconet is a fantastic system, I'd need a very good reason to go with anything else.

 

The only bit that might not suit is JMRI. I am a software developer and when I want to know how to do something in JMRI I find reading the code is actually less time consuming than reading the documentation. Sometimes JMRI doesn't do what I want and I write the JMRI feature I need and it gets included in the next release. 

 

JMRI is brilliant, and free, but but it's written by volunteers and quite difficult to understand.