DCC ready Hornby Grange

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

I have just got a Hornby Grainge, it has the DCC 8 pin PCB.

 

If the model is DCC ready like mine, is that the newest chassis or has it been 'improved' since the 8 pin was fitted, making a Mk1 and Mk2 (even Mk3) chassis?

 

I'm just trying to work out if I can get better, or this is the best you can get? It does run well, but maybe there is 5 pole version etc? I have no box, so no 'R' number.

 

Thanks.

Edited November 3, 2017 by swiftbeam

[robmcg]

As far as I know there is only one version of the current 2005-on Hornby Grange in terms of basic design, the latest version may have semi-permanent tender coupling arrangements, they are all described in Ramsay's catlogue as having 5-pole shew wound motors.. 

[Butler Henderson]

I wouldn't be too concerned whether it has a 3 pole or 5 pole motor so long as it runs well as you can tweak the CVs on any decent decoder to ensure good performance. I have all my locos with a relatively low top speed and those that are 3 pole run no worse than those that are 5 pole.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Butler Henderson

[adb968008]

My only gripe with the Grange is it doesn’t like point work (4 way or curved pointwork) or moderate curves.. I have nothing worse than a 2nd radius but for the most part I have 3rd & 4th, what tends to happen is the front bogie jumping the track, or riding up and trapping itself under the cylinders, occasionally shorting out too. I only have 1 Hornby hall but haven’t run it, but i’m Assuming that’s the same. My Bachmann Manor & Halls (old and new) are fine with it.

 

I’ve got 3 of them and they are all a bit quarrelsome with my track (my track is no WCML, but most other stuff tends to be ok with it). I’ve got 6803, 6862 & 6879 so cover several years of production, Someday I might dig deeper but they aren’t my favourite engines, so for now they tend to be shedware.

Edited November 3, 2017 by adb968008

[Butler Henderson]

My only gripe with the Grange is it doesn’t like point work or moderate curves.

I’ve got 3 of them and they are all a bit quarrels9me with my track (my track is no WCML, but most other stuff tends to be ok with it).

Have you checked that the pick ups are bearing currently on the wheels.

[swiftbeam]

Thank you, the tender coupling has a pin and two brass wipers either side of the pin.

 

I'm actually only wanting the chassis as a transplant into a Manor with split chassis.

Edited November 3, 2017 by swiftbeam

[JSpencer]

Thank you, the tender coupling has a pin and two brass wipers either side of the pin.

 

I'm actually only wanting the chassis as a transplant into a Manor with split chassis.

That could be a challenge. While the too prototypes shared much in common. Hornby tend to fill the space in the boiler as much as possible (DCC chip space aside). You may find the motor sitting too high to get a Bachmann/replica/Mainline body over it. The loco is after all a Hall class with 43xx wheels.

 

As far as I.m aware, the chassis has never been changed on the Hornby grange. Latest versions probably have the 4 pin plug and simple drawbar with DCC chip holder in the tender instead of the loco, but that won,t change the chassis part one bit.

As others state, the motor has always been a superb 5 pole skew wound.

[Dunsignalling]

Thank you, the tender coupling has a pin and two brass wipers either side of the pin.

 

I'm actually only wanting the chassis as a transplant into a Manor with split chassis.

No chance, unless you own a milling machine.

 

The chassis block is an extremely tight fit in the Grange body which has a bigger boiler than the Manor.

 

John

[swiftbeam]

 

I do, but I now move forward with caution as I was told the Grainge chassis will fit the Manor.

I'll keep you posted as to what I find!

The Chassis is here waiting, but the Manor is with the postman.

[B15nac]

Not much modification is needed to fit the chassis of a Grange in to the manor just need a little cut off the back an a little sanding on the front! It's trial and error to get it all lined up but it will an makes a nice model here's some pictures of mine but it's not quite finished. I've managed to use screws to hold the body on as the original manor body had.

[swiftbeam]

Awesome, now looking forward to the conversion again :-)

 

Thank you.

[Dunsignalling]

Not much modification is needed to fit the chassis of a Grange in to the manor just need a little cut off the back an a little sanding on the front! It's trial and error to get it all lined up but it will an makes a nice model here's some pictures of mine but it's not quite finished. I've managed to use screws to hold the body on as the original manor body had.

Useful to know. I didn't pursue the idea any further once I'd removed and replaced the body on my Grange, which was an annoyingly snug fit.

 

Presumably the Hornby Grange body moulding must be considerably thicker than that of the Bachmann Manor?

 

John

Edited November 5, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

Fitting the Grange chassis was done.

Everything went well and there was loads of space.

Once stripped back down after mocking up, I stripped the paint off the chassis ready for a respray.

I could see cracking and the metal swollen by the cracks, the chassis snapped like a Kit Kat !!!!!!!

Is metal fatigue in Hornby chassis normal on a model this new? (8 pin fitted)

Now got to try and find a new chassis :-(

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by swiftbeam

[swiftbeam]

Does anybody know if new chassis can be bought?

[swiftbeam]

This project is dead to me now.

 

Just so others know, the Grange chassis fits easily into the Bachmann Manor and you DON'T need a milling machine!

 

But if you want to do it, get ready to watch your efforts fall apart in front of your eyes as your Hornby chassis crumbles like a biscuit !!!!

 

Nice !

 

No more Hornby for me !

[lofty1966]

This project is dead to me now.

 

Just so others know, the Grange chassis fits easily into the Bachmann Manor and you DON'T need a milling machine!

 

But if you want to do it, get ready to watch your efforts fall apart in front of your eyes as your Hornby chassis crumbles like a biscuit !!!!

 

Nice !

 

No more Hornby for me !

Bit dramatic over one Loco .

[phil-b259]

Bit dramatic over one Loco .

 

If however you have spent quite a bit of time planning the conversion and getting all the bits together etc, having the chassis break on you is bound to be more than a tad disappointing. Venting your frustration at such a thing on here may help with dealing with it - but as you observe its also rather pointless in the overall scheme of things.

 

Given the economics of RTR model railways effectively rules out duplication (when it has been tried all that happens is monies get split and each company ends up with a smaller slice of the pie than would otherwise be the case if it was a model exclusive to them) then Swiftbeam is going to be reasonably restricted in what he can model using only non Hornby items.

[swiftbeam]

Bit dramatic over one Loco .

 

 

No, not really. I've only been modelling in 00 for 3 months (I come from 20 years of Japanese N)

I only own 3 Hornby locos !!

They can be sold off tomorrow and it'll not affect me, nor Hornby I know, but you pays ya money, takes ya choice!

It seems the Merchant Navy I bought 2 weeks ago also has a history of the same problem, so that's going before it also falls apart.

 

That's it from me on this matter.

 

Thanks for your inputs :-)

Edited November 7, 2017 by swiftbeam

[adb968008]

No, not really. I've only been modelling in 00 for 3 months (I come from 20 years of Japanese N)

I only own 3 Hornby locos !!

They can be sold off tomorrow and it'll not affect me, nor Hornby I know, but you pays ya money, takes ya choice!

It seems the Merchant Navy I bought 2 weeks ago also has a history of the same problem, so that's going before it also falls apart.

 

That's it from me on this matter.

 

Thanks for your inputs :-)

3 months, 2 projects and 1 failure on the bench and and your already zeroed out ?

 

Some of my modelling projects take decades, indeed I have a couple of projects I’ve not given up on that I started when I was a teenager, and i’m In my forties teaching my daughter to do it now.

 

I have one project, a Trix BR52 conversion from a Russian T3 to a Mav 520 (quite a simple one), that I started 5500 miles away when I lived In The West Coast US, in 2001 which has outlived dozens of ex girlfriends, 4 countries, and 6 changes of address, at one point the model was in dozens of bits, some in Hong Kong, some in Manchester and the rest in San Francisco, but is now sitting on my desk fully assembled in London awaiting a smoke box part and painting for me to finish it...as models go it is probably a candidate for the most geographically dispersed overhaul of any rtr model, it doesn’t have an end date as I need the smoke box door.. to date no right sized spare has appeared for some years and the model is long out of production, somewhere in a dark corner of the garage I might have it, I’ve learned a little German so someday a rauchkammertur for a soviet t3 trix 22515 may appear on ebay,de..

 

My next project is even older than me, my father started a two rail conversion of Duchess of Atholl circa 1972, his first train as a kid in the 1950’s.. I expect and hope to have it working for the 1st anniversary of his death next April... along with a dozen other projects between now and then too... including a full time job which sees me Flying abroad, a family, Christmas etc.. he always wanted to see it work again, even in his last few weeks in hospital he asked me to look at it, now I’ve got the chance to make it happen, with the remit of using only the original material (repair not replace) as this one is important to me... 46 years to complete.

 

Don’t give up before you’ve started, if Hornby don’t have the part, ebay will prevail, but in the meantime, put it on the shelf and work the next one.

 

I’ve had several failures over the years many due to the desire to rush it, though now my problem is the opposite.. I’ve too many projects started, but unlike real life, modelling projects have no end date.. if it annoys you.. leave it, it’s a hobby, start another or pick up on a project where you left off.. there no better feeling than finally completing a project from years ago, and the last 2 years I’ve had plenty of those.

 

Persistence.

Edited November 7, 2017 by adb968008

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

You have missed the point and the root of my problem.

 

I started the whole '00 project' about 3 months ago, and I have only about 13 models so far. One is a good example of the latest Hornby 61xx that I converted to Mashima-Flywheel-60:1 gears, it runs as well as anything modern! The rest are just standard models based on where I'm modelling and what I like.

 

Enter some Dapol locos, not a discussion for here, but to summarise, bought 4, two sent back for refund, one sent back twice for repair from brand new and one I'm going to have to re-motor or totally re-powerbogie because I really want it despite problems !!!

 

Then I get this newish chassis totally fail, and turns out Hornby have been falling apart for decades!

 

So that's a total of 15 mostly new locos, bought for huge money in the last three months and 5 have problems that are extremely problematic to solve, that's 33% of my collection !!!!! What will be the state of the other 66% I own in a few years, especially the brand new £150 Merchant Navy I have that I know now has historic problems!

 

I totally understand a project taking time, we all have them, but when a hobby is fundamentally flawed, you have to ask a question before you're in too deep! Modelling is modelling, but wasting your time building your house on sand is a total waste of time and money.

 

To add insult to injury, Peter's Spares has just told me Hornby do not sell these chassis. So I have to either buy a new model = £100, find a used model dirt cheap = may have same issues, scratch build a new brass chassis. In 2017 I shouldn't have to be in this position, it is outside the 'reasonable expectations' of this hobby!

Edited November 7, 2017 by swiftbeam

[Hilux5972]

Hi,

 

You have missed the point and the root of my problem.

 

I started the whole '00 project' about 3 months ago, and I have only about 13 models so far. One is a good example of the latest Hornby 61xx that I converted to Mashima-Flywheel-60:1 gears, it runs as well as anything modern! The rest are just standard models based on where I'm modelling and what I like.

 

Enter some Dapol locos, not a discussion for here, but to summarise, bought 4, two sent back for refund, one sent back twice for repair from brand new and one I'm going to have to re-motor or totally re-powerbogie because I really want it despite problems !!!

 

Then I get this newish chassis totally fail, and turns out Hornby have been falling apart for decades!

 

So that's a total of 15 mostly new locos, bought for huge money in the last three months and 5 have problems that are extremely problematic to solve, that's 33% of my collection !!!!! What will be the state of the other 66% I own in a few years, especially the brand new £150 Merchant Navy I have that I know now has historic problems!

 

I totally understand a project taking time, we all have them, but when a hobby is fundamentally flawed, you have to ask a question before you're in too deep! Modelling is modelling, but wasting your time building your house on sand is a total waste of time and money.

 

To add insult to injury, Peter's Spares has just told me Hornby do not sell these chassis. So I have to either buy a new model = £100, find a used model dirt cheap = may have same issues, scratch build a new brass chassis. In 2017 I shouldn't have to be in this position, it is outside the 'reasonable expectations' of this hobby!

You can get chassis on eBay. People buy locos for just the body and then on sell the chassis.

[swiftbeam]

Can you please give me that Ebay number then as I can't see a metal chassis for a Grange on Ebay. Peter's Spars say they never come up and my local SH loco dealer says the same. If Hornby chassis rot, fine, just offer them for sale through Hornby as a spare. But Hornby do not sell Chassis, and that's ridicules when they have a history of failures.

Edited November 7, 2017 by swiftbeam

[Black 5 Bear]

Hi,

 

You have missed the point and the root of my problem.

 

I started the whole '00 project' about 3 months ago, and I have only about 13 models so far. One is a good example of the latest Hornby 61xx that I converted to Mashima-Flywheel-60:1 gears, it runs as well as anything modern! The rest are just standard models based on where I'm modelling and what I like.

 

Enter some Dapol locos, not a discussion for here, but to summarise, bought 4, two sent back for refund, one sent back twice for repair from brand new and one I'm going to have to re-motor or totally re-powerbogie because I really want it despite problems !!!

 

Then I get this newish chassis totally fail, and turns out Hornby have been falling apart for decades!

 

So that's a total of 15 mostly new locos, bought for huge money in the last three months and 5 have problems that are extremely problematic to solve, that's 33% of my collection !!!!! What will be the state of the other 66% I own in a few years, especially the brand new £150 Merchant Navy I have that I know now has historic problems!

 

I totally understand a project taking time, we all have them, but when a hobby is fundamentally flawed, you have to ask a question before you're in too deep! Modelling is modelling, but wasting your time building your house on sand is a total waste of time and money.

 

To add insult to injury, Peter's Spares has just told me Hornby do not sell these chassis. So I have to either buy a new model = £100, find a used model dirt cheap = may have same issues, scratch build a new brass chassis. In 2017 I shouldn't have to be in this position, it is outside the 'reasonable expectations' of this hobby!

How can you say that a new Merchant Navy class loco (Airsmooth version) that was only released in March/April of this year, will have historic problems when it was a totally new design in every way ???

Or as I suspect, you are in fact referring to the older rebuilt version, which you have purchased second hand ???

Edited November 7, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[Dunsignalling]

Hi,

 

You have missed the point and the root of my problem.

 

I started the whole '00 project' about 3 months ago, and I have only about 13 models so far. One is a good example of the latest Hornby 61xx that I converted to Mashima-Flywheel-60:1 gears, it runs as well as anything modern! The rest are just standard models based on where I'm modelling and what I like.

 

Enter some Dapol locos, not a discussion for here, but to summarise, bought 4, two sent back for refund, one sent back twice for repair from brand new and one I'm going to have to re-motor or totally re-powerbogie because I really want it despite problems !!!

 

Then I get this newish chassis totally fail, and turns out Hornby have been falling apart for decades!

 

So that's a total of 15 mostly new locos, bought for huge money in the last three months and 5 have problems that are extremely problematic to solve, that's 33% of my collection !!!!! What will be the state of the other 66% I own in a few years, especially the brand new £150 Merchant Navy I have that I know now has historic problems!

 

I totally understand a project taking time, we all have them, but when a hobby is fundamentally flawed, you have to ask a question before you're in too deep! Modelling is modelling, but wasting your time building your house on sand is a total waste of time and money.

 

To add insult to injury, Peter's Spares has just told me Hornby do not sell these chassis. So I have to either buy a new model = £100, find a used model dirt cheap = may have same issues, scratch build a new brass chassis. In 2017 I shouldn't have to be in this position, it is outside the 'reasonable expectations' of this hobby!

Railway modelling is supposed to be a relaxing diversion from the strains of everyday life but it unfortunately doesn't seem to be working out that way for you.

 

I have many (x12 approx.) more locos than you, but only one has so far exhibited any sign of Mazak rot, with only the leading bogie affected. I presume your Merchant Navy with historical issues is the rebuilt model (some of which are reported to match my experience with the early version of Manston) rather than the recent air-smoothed model which is too new for anything like this to have yet developed.

 

AFAIK Hornby have stopped using the factory where the faulty castings came from, so new models should not get it anyway. However, I do have three or four locos that do appear on the danger list, which I am checking regularly.

 

I think you have been unlucky, especially with the Grange as it is the first instance of one with this problem that I've heard of. From the picture, yours actually looks more fractured than rotted, was there a lot of dust released when it "went"? If not, I suspect it may have been dropped before you got it. If so, you may well be able to fix it with Araldite.

 

If you do want something better than a r-t-r chassis for your Manor, Comet do a kit. Comet are nowadays part of the Wizard Models empire.

 

Good luck

 

John

Edited November 7, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Hilux5972]

Can you please give me that Ebay number then as I can't see a metal chassis for a Grange on Ebay. Peter's Spars say they never come up and my local SH loco dealer says the same. If Hornby chassis rot, fine, just offer them for sale through Hornby as a spare. But Hornby do not sell Chassis, and that's ridicules when they have a history of failures.

Just go on eBay and Type in Hornby Grange. Will bring up any listings. There isn’t always chassis available but they do crop up regularly enough.