RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2018 Bob. What are you using for underlay? I ask because you could cut a channel out between the sleepers either side of the tie bar and then hook the wire into the center hole of the tie bar and then slip a packing piece under the tube to hold it all up so the wire won't drop out again. Give me a bit coz I'm doing 6 things at once here then I'm off for a shower but when I can sit down for 15 mins I'l draw you a diagram to show you what I mean mate. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Bob. What are you using for underlay? I ask because you could cut a channel out between the sleepers either side of the tie bar and then hook the wire into the center hole of the tie bar and then slip a packing piece under the tube to hold it all up so the wire won't drop out again. Give me a bit coz I'm doing 6 things at once here then I'm off for a shower but when I can sit down for 15 mins I'l draw you a diagram to show you what I mean mate. Regards Lez. Hi Lezz I am using standard cork underlay..... Cheers... Regards always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi bob I hope you can see what I was getting at and that this has worked Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Oh yes Andy you are quite right. He won't need one for test purposes. I do need one though because 1: the motors are around 6 feet away from the control panel and 2: I'm firing them in pairs so I need the extra oomph. Also as I have said elsewhere I do over engineer everything. What can I say once a toolmaker always a toolmaker. Regards Lez.Z. I see now Lez, we have a CDU on our Clubs Layout and that is firing some 20 ft Plus from the Panel, my home Layout Kings Moreton, the maximum from the Panel is about 15 ft for a couple of Doubles. Another thing Bob, is to ensure firstly the the Point will move with minimum effort manually, and then also that the Point Motor is fitted square as per the instructions, this again will aid the need not to use a CDU, if the Motors are Close / within 15 ft or so from the Switch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Hi bob I hope you can see what I was getting at and that this has worked Regards Lez. Wire in tube.jpg Cheers Lezz..... Thanks for the info and diagram...I will make an attempt.....there is so little free upward movement in my laid points, I am scared of damaging the mechanism or spring.... I will try as tube in wire would be my prefered method of switching the points..... Regards always Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi... This is where we are at, at the moment..... excavated beneath the pip on the tie bar.... Regards always... Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Bob. You really should have made your droppers longer mate. I always leave an inch or two slack. You just never know when you might need to make an adjustment even if it's only underneath because the wiring is in the way of a point motor or electromagnet. Tight wiring looks good but can come at a price. Here's the solution go underneath with your point operation drill a pilot hole with a small drill through the center hole in the tie bar and then open it up to about 8 mm from below with a hand drill being very careful as you break through. Then build an actuator that the wire connects to and use a pin through the center hole down through the baseboard to drive the tie bar. I have photos somewhere of mine I'll dig them out and post them mate so you can see how I did it. Regards Lez. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Bob. I can't find any old pics so I have taken some more on my phone, I went for my DSLR but all the batteries are dead the only problem is when I plug my phone into my PC it's not seeing the photos. I will have to email them to myself but I don't use my phone for emails. Wifey will be home soon and I'll watsapp, (it's a social media thingy), her the photos and she will email them back to me then I can post them. A bit of a faff but it works. I'm having a total photographic malfunction day. Oh well you can't be good at everything and phones just ain't my forte. Regards Lez.Z. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Her you go Bob. This will give you the idea nothing fancy and it works. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Some pics from KM this afternoon that might help Bob. The ones with the numbers are in the Fiddle Yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Her you go Bob. This will give you the idea nothing fancy and it works. IMG-20180210-WA0002.jpg IMG-20180210-WA0001.jpg IMG-20180210-WA0003.jpg Regards Lez. Hi.....I do appreciate this Lezz.....it may however be beyond my capabilities..... but I will study it fully and get my head around the mechanics of it..... Regards always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Some pics from KM this afternoon that might help Bob. The ones with the numbers are in the Fiddle Yard. Running with John and Jeff 008.JPG Running with John and Jeff 009.JPG Running with John and Jeff 010.JPG Running with John and Jeff 011.JPG Thanks Andy.....much appreciated as always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) I can 'see' where all this is going to end up my friends.....in that I will be throwing the points manually in the end as I feel that for this layout at least...it'll have to be the case more than likely, although I haven't totally given up just yet....or attaching the wire (bending into a loop and gluing directly to the pip)? Regards always... Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Oh Bob. Have a little more faith in yourself mate. So far you have had the idea, drawn up the layout track plan, built the base boards, fixed down the track underlay, cut and fixed the track and wired it all up! Why on earth do you think this is beyond your capabilities? If you have done all of that so far it certainly is not!! The only thing you have not got right so far is to not drill a hole under the point tie bars before you fixed them down and as you thought you were going to be laying the wire and tube on top of the baseboards it's hardly a mistake at all is it. Like I said make yourself a test board then you can try all the ways Andy and I have given you to operate the points. The worst case scenario would be that we have to talk you through it all step by step. It's not like I don't have the time as I'm disabled and only work 2 shifts a week in the pharmacy, Yes I know it's a long way from tool making but it turns out I was good at that as well and how much tool making do you think goes on in London these days. Besides it's all done with computers these days. YOU CAN DO THIS BOB. I have total faith in you. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Lez is right, and if I hadn't had that dammed Heart Attack last Month I would have popped down and helped you, after all your only about 3/4 of an hour away from me. But, I'm sure YOU can do it with the help on here from the likes of Lez and I, and many others. All the best for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 You are right there Andy heart attacks really suck I've had two now the second one right in the middle of renovating out flat. If I were closer to Bob I would be there like a shot to help him move forward with this. None of this is beyond him in the slightest. It's just that he doubts himself is all. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Lezz / Andy.... You two guys are an inspiration, your guidance, support and encouragement is wonderful......I won't throw in the towel just yet, give me a spade, a pair of secateurs and a range of plants and I'll fashion you a garden, as that's been my background in horticulture for 35 years now..... when it comes to matters such as these I am a bit lost until the penny drops.....and I will, with guys like you around, still fashion something that'll produce results either above or below the bases boards using tube in wire or side mounted point motors....? In tandem I hope to continue to build Cambrian Street Station / Scenery to keep momentum .... Cheers my friends.... Regards always Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Lezz / Andy.... You two guys are an inspiration, your guidance, support and encouragement is wonderful......I won't throw in the towel just yet, give me a spade, a pair of secateurs and a range of plants and I'll fashion you a garden, as that's been my background in horticulture for 35 years now..... when it comes to matters such as these I am a bit lost until the penny drops.....and I will, with guys like you around, still fashion something that'll produce results either above or below the bases boards using tube in wire or side mounted point motors....? Cheers my friends.... Regards always Bob Hahha I DO WISH we were closer, We could do a HOME SWAP, I pulled up some Plants last year thinking they were WEEDS. Her indoors went mad, My Dad loved his garden and he too would not have believed my ignorance in matters Horticultural, hahah Edited February 10, 2018 by Andrew P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Trouble is that working 5 days at a nursery, then two days looking after the gardens at Arley Station on the SVR ( 7 days a week 'work' virtually ) ...my garden at home is less than tidy as there' no free time to attend to it in the manner it deserves...! Regards always... Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Having a 'think'....I know that is a dangerous for me......and taking your suggestion onboard, is it feasible and are we talking about taking the the tubing (maybe brass in some areas for added strength) from the lever frame, by drilling a sloping hole to carry the tube in wire beneath the board ( or the lever frame lowered to a height and set into a level, allowing tubing to run just beneath the baseboard) and then the bent wire coming up from beneath into the tie bar hole....which has been opened up from beneath in the manner you described Lezz by drilling down through the tie bar hole then widening to allow the required movement....? I may not have written this idea very clearly..... sorry...? Regards always.... Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 Of course you can Bob. I would go with an actuator though and after you have drilled the pilot hole slide something between the point and track bed that way you won't damage the point. You could fix the lever frame to the outside of the baseboard and drill through the timber for your tube runs if you don't want to cut into the framing, but you would need to protect it in some way from accidental damage and this isn't a good idea if the layout is going to be portable. In the garden I just build things and fix things to other things for SWMBO to plant green stuff in as if I do that sort of thing I just kill everything although I'm good at ponds and waterfalls and that end of things. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Lezz I understand that an actuator is something which provides the motion, but not quite how this would work as part of the movement in this case...? Are you also hinting at the area between the point and the track bed being lifted slightly by a piece of packing to protect it...? Sorry for being dense....! When I first started working at the horticultural nursery where I have been for 35 years now....I looked after the aquatic section....ponds, plants and fish....used to put in ponds too..! Regards always... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2018 That's right Bob. You just need to protect the underside of the point whilst you open out the hole from the pilot drill size to 8 mm. As I said do the final mill or two with a hand drill and you can feel it when the bit starts to break through. It's not going to stay there after it's just an insurance against damage. I would also take the bit out of the drill and just twist it in your fingers to clean up the hole. Then you can remove the piece of whatever you slip under the point. The actuator can take whatever form you like. The pics I posted are of the ones I made up out of strip wood I got from the model shop without going upstairs and measuring it I can't tell you for sure what size I used. the screw is to hold it in place and give it something to rotate around, the pin that drives the tie bar sits in a length of brass tube that I hammered into the hole to act as a bush and goes in from the top with a right angle bend on the top end to stop it falling through. I cut a slice out of the top and drilled a hole in the other end and the omega loop just sits in there. The other end of the omega loop is attached to the end of the wire with a small chocolate block connector with the plastic cut off and the wire, which is just soft iron wire, runs in a piece of curtain wire fixed in place with small cable clips it all goes back to the lever frame and is connected to it with another chocolate block connector and a bit of 0.7 mm brass wire bent to a shape that won't allow it to come out of the hole in the lever. It's all very basic stuff mate it didn't cost more than 30 quid to do the whole storage yard including the frame which I got from flea bay for a fiver. The omega loops are the Gem product that I had in stock and they take up any extra throw from the frame. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Hi Lez Ahhh I see thanks..... Thoughts and 'ideas' stimulated by yourself and Andy have been whirling around my mind all evening and what was once hesitation and trepidation to work through this has turned into something less 'worrying'......what I intend to do firstly is to see whether the thinner, piano wire I obtained from my local 'aircraft' model shop will solder to the Mercontrol 1013 coupler that will slip over the pip, so everything can be above the baseboard as planned, but I have doubts this will not prove to be any different to that with the thicker wire which comes with the system....(after this potentially fruitless attempted soldering)...... the plan then is to drill the hole through the central tie bar hole and into the baseboard and then open out the hole to accommodate the wire potentially from beneath.....as a first step in building the confidence to proceed.....? Regards always... Bob Edited February 10, 2018 by BobM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted February 11, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2018 Hi Bob. The little brass etched thingy that you are going to try to solder to the control wire isn't meant for that. It is for connecting the single universal point lever to a point, not for the wire in the tube from a lever frame. You just need to drill a 0.5 mm hole either just inside of the "pip" on the tie bar or through the top of the "pip" it's self. You don't need to solder anything at all. Go here: http://lytchettmanor.co.uk.websitebuilder.prositehosting.co.uk/lytchett-manor/mercontrol---point-control There is a link to their hits and tips page on that page mate. Regards Lez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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