Rebuilt Merchant Navy

[robmcg]

I wonder what it would cost to factory-fit the hoses, front steps and external brake-rodding?  As done with the Q1 for steps etc and the new original MN for brake-rodding? 

 

These are things which to my eye 'make' the model and are for me at least very hard to install. Cyano-glue and me have a very unhappy relationship! 

 

I think to me these aspects are as important as new tooling, desirable though the latter may be. Of course with the new CEO and others at Hornby the loading of extra cost for assembly might be frowned-upon.

 

That said, we are lucky to have these models at all.

[adb968008]

I hate to dampen the new Rebuilt Merchant Navy party but...

 

I just lifted the lid off my 35028 chassis (not the rebuilt one, but the new one).

I was expecting to find some form of provision* for the revised valve gear on a rebuilt MN, which would mean if Hornby were to do a new rebuilt MN, they could use the new chassis they just created, with the revised valve gear, fixed rear axle etc of the new tooling.

 

* typically like cut outs for supporting the lifting link/arm/reverser etc on the frame as seen on all other Hornby models using Walchaerts valve gear.

 

Sadly I found the opposite, there is no such provision, but additionally there is extra weight in the chassis filling the under body space that is part of the chassis block.. there’s no way this chassis will go under a rebuilt without major surgery.

 

What does this mean...

 

This chassis was not designed with a rebuilt in mind, which means the designers too were not thinking about a rebuilt.

My guess is, if there is to be a new one, it’s at least 5 years away, and after they’ve exploited the unrebuilt MN. Perhaps maybe a new tender ?

 

Given how many Rebuilts have been made, and there relative lack of rarity, making one off runs such as 35014 every few years will probably suffice for a while.

 

Isn’t it nice when the colours match ?

 

 

Maybe for Hornbys next Rebuilt, we could have 35017 Belgian Marine, it’s been seen in London Victoria once or twice since it was scrapped and looked the nuts.

Edited December 16, 2017 by adb968008

[robmcg]

Thanks adb968008, I feel better now having forked out for a 35014 rebuilt 'Nederland Line'. Seriously, having read Simon Kohler's article in the Dec 2017 MREmag I would be surprised if Hornby were planning a new version in the near term, especially with the restraint on new spending..

 

That said, I have bought 35014 on its merits, I think it is worth the UKP130 we outside-EU buyers are charged, (Rails' price incl. air freight).

 

The existing model IMHO lives up to Simon's clear pride in it, and pride in the Hornby design team, who embraced the culture which brought so many brilliant RTR steam-era models in the last 15 years, notably in my mind the suite of tools for the Black 5. Also I think of such gems as the Standard 4MT 4-6-0 for under UKP100, magic! 

 

With 1967-style end-of-Southern-steam, weathering a MN can look seriously imposing, just like the prototype. In particular I have enjoyed making pics of crews of rebuilt MNs having a 'last go'  with engines shorn of plates but still in good nick, albeit filthy. 

 

In any even t thanks for pointing out the implausibility of using original MN tools to upgrade the old ones.

Edited December 17, 2017 by robmcg

[Black 5 Bear]

Adb968008 - Useful info re the chassis not being compatable with the airsmooth version.

Bearing in mind how much new airsmooth M/N version and the Stanier Coronation pacific were marketed with an RRP of £180 before discount.

How on earth can Hornby justify an RRP of nearly £190, for what is essentially an old model with a few mods and and a new paint job?

I agree the Rebuilt version of this loco is still good for it's age, however if their going to resurect it maybe it needs to be priced below Hornby's newly designed releases.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Black 5 Bear

[adb968008]

Adb968008 - Useful info re the chassis not being compatable with the airsmooth version.

Bearing in mind how much new airsmooth M/N version and the Stanier Coronation pacific were marketed with an RRP of £180 before discount.

How on earth can Hornby justify an RRP of nearly £190, for what is essentially an old model with a few mods and and a new paint job?

I agree the Rebuilt version of this loco is still good for it's age, however if their going to resurect it maybe it needs to be priced below Hornby's newly designed releases.

I dunno I didn’t pay anywhere close to £190 for 35014.

The good folks at Derails sold me mine, £140..

http://www.derails.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=35014&product_id=1570

Looks like I wasn’t alone however, as it’s showing sold out.

 

That said I paid £148 for R3436 35028 Clan Line, seen also above, direct from Hornby.

Edited December 17, 2017 by adb968008

[Black 5 Bear]

I think I made it pretty clear to all that I was referring to Hornby's RRP rather than the discounted pricing available at some outlets.

I apologize for not being absolutely precise with the figure of £190, however if you go onto the Hornby website R3566 is clearly shown as £184.99, so I really wasn't that far away.

[robmcg]

I think I made it pretty clear to all that I was referring to Hornby's RRP rather than the discounted pricing available at some outlets.

I apologize for not being absolutely precise with the figure of £190, however if you go onto the Hornby website R3566 is clearly shown as £184.99, so I really wasn't that far away.

 

Fair enough too, the RRP is often only a guide. I doubt we will get the radical reductions we have seen on some Hornby models, like a King at £79-£89  ...edit, no, UKP69  ...., and was it the LNER green B1 which was about £150 RRP and is still available at £89  in places, not to mention S15s, certain A3s, and 700s, NER 0-8-0s, and others.

 

I see the NRM want near £200 for an 45000 Black 5.... and much as I like the model,  not for me at that price, given it has the same old tooling. Mind you, I don't understand marketing.

Edited December 18, 2017 by robmcg

[robmcg]

As to 'old tooling', I made a pic some time ago of a rebuilt MN at speed, and it didn't need any photo-editing trickery beyond enhanced shadows and the like, especially with detailing on.

 

Lovely model!  Pic edited in general. Will remove if required.

 

 

cheers

[adb968008]

I think I made it pretty clear to all that I was referring to Hornby's RRP rather than the discounted pricing available at some outlets.

I apologize for not being absolutely precise with the figure of £190, however if you go onto the Hornby website R3566 is clearly shown as £184.99, so I really wasn't that far away.

 

We haven't seen 2018 prices yet, I doubt they will be going southwards.

tbh not sure how many takers there will be for a £200 Lord Nelson, even if it's a Southern model... assuming it's a Lord Nelson Hornby announce and it's £200. ;-) as discounted won't be much less than £165.

Edited December 17, 2017 by adb968008

[darren01]

I think next year we are going to get some eye watering new prices, not just from Hornby but Bachmann as well.

Every time there is a price rise we have a moan about it for a bit, but the models still sell at the new prices and then we try to justify that its such a good model it worth the money.

I can see it not going to be long before we see model over £200+ , remember a few years ago on here people say i am not paying over £100.00 for a tank loco, but that did in the end not stop sales.

[robmcg]

I think next year we are going to get some eye watering new prices, not just from Hornby but Bachmann as well.

Every time there is a price rise we have a moan about it for a bit, but the models still sell at the new prices and then we try to justify that its such a good model it worth the money.

I can see it not going to be long before we see model over £200+ , remember a few years ago on here people say i am not paying over £100.00 for a tank loco, but that did in the end not stop sales.

 

You could say, and many do, that RTR should be compared to the cost of kit or scratch-built equivalents, suddenly a good current-standard-or-better RTR £200 LN is value for money...  How many would sell is anyone's guess.

[olivegreen]

You could say, and many do, that RTR should be compared to the cost of kit or scratch-built equivalents, suddenly a good current-standard-or-better RTR £200 LN is value for money...  How many would sell is anyone's guess.

I would suggest that a good quality LN would sell like hot cakes, even at that price. Not, of course, that I am inviting any of the potential manufacturers to set their selling prices at that level, but I am at least realistic with regard to increasing prices. Edited to add that it is educational to look at continental prices for comparable HO models - and I know that comment has been made many times before - British prices are not so shocking in comparison…yet.

 

As to the comment regarding those who would say that RTR should be compared with the cost of kit-built or scratch-built equivalents, for kits, perhaps (but let us not forget that many of the kits we not-so-long-ago revered are nowhere near the standard of today's better RTR productions), but any comparison with scratch-built simply is not credible. Materials for the latter may well be cheaper but it is nigh on impossible to put a value on the skill and time involved in scratch building to any reasonable standard.  Since this is the rebuilt MN thread, I'd just say that I (and I'd bet many others) wouldn't dream of trying to scratch-build one: why re-invent the wheel? Hence many without either the time, the skill or the investment needed in research  - or, indeed, the desire to go to that extreme in modelling - would accept this logic and pay the price to buy RTR.

 

Each to his own, as they say.

 

On the other hand, what I do try to scratch-build, though, are wagons (in particular) which are unlikely ever to be manufactured by the major producers, regardless of price - recently, for instance, a SR refrigerator van, L&BR bogie covered van, LSWR CCTs…oddities like that. I hesitate to show them here, because I am very aware that my skills are lamentably limited, but the challenge pleases me!

 

Mike

Edited December 22, 2017 by olivegreen

[Francis deWeck]

Thanks for the photos which showed the chassis, but I wonder if the trailing bogie was fixed or pivoted? I was unable to discern this.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Francis deWeck

[adb968008]

Thanks for the photos which showed the chassis, but I wonder if the trailing bogie was fixed or pivoted? I was unable to discern this.

Fixed.

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for the photos which showed the chassis, but I wonder if the trailing bogie was fixed or pivoted? I was unable to discern this.

The chassis in the photo is from the non-rebuilt model and has the fixed truck.

 

The Rebuilt models have pivoted trucks.

 

John

[Francis deWeck]

The chassis in the photo is from the non-rebuilt model and has the fixed truck.

 

The Rebuilt models have pivoted trucks.

 

John

Thanks, a further question (apologies for being a pain) do the new chassis of the rebuilt MNs accept the older bodies and any idea how far back? I have several well worn units that would be better of with replacement chassis.

[adb968008]

Thanks, a further question (apologies for being a pain) do the new chassis of the rebuilt MNs accept the older bodies and any idea how far back? I have several well worn units that would be better of with replacement chassis.

I’ve found that the body shape changed, and were not always interchangeable.. i had an original 35028 Clan lines (in the MNLPS box), and another (I think 35012) both were rebuilt MNs one which I needed for a chassis swap... I couldn’t take the body to the swap donor chassis as the fitting for a DCC had changed, resulting In Hornby widening the body, making newer chassis not fit the older ones.

Since then the DCC plug moved to the tender, I don’t know the impact of this change on the body fit.

Edited March 11, 2018 by adb968008

[Francis deWeck]

I’ve found that the body shape changed, and were not always interchangeable.. i had an original 35028 Clan lines (in the MNLPS box), and another (I think 35012) both were rebuilt MNs one which I needed for a chassis swap... I couldn’t take the body to the swap donor chassis as the fitting for a DCC had changed, resulting In Hornby widening the body, making newer chassis not fit the older ones.

Since then the DCC plug moved to the tender, I don’t know the impact of this change on the body fit.

I've contacted Hornby, they inform me that the new chassis is not compatible with the new body. Pity at that then...

[G-BOAF]

Open cab windows - prototypical, but not quite correctly executed. On the Unrebuilt light pacifics, much better... why? The MN opening windows were achieved by removing one of the 'bars' of the window and glazing the remaining third. What they failed to do was remove the innere window 'frame' around the 2 open windows. The light unrebuilt light pacifics do not have this problem. All my MNs therefore have 3 closed windows. Accurate physically if not operationally...