Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling the changes...

[Skinnylinny]

It's only just starting to come together, but should be a *very* pretty locomotive once finished... Mr Adams certainly could design some lovely looking things!

Edited September 6, 2022 by Skinnylinny

[Skinnylinny]

A comment from @J-Mo Arts made me worry about the size of the Adams 380 class - will it fit in my loco release road? I did a quick comparison with the Adams A12 and, lo and behold, the 4-4-0 is shorter than the 0-4-2! The difference in length appears to come from the tender, as the locomotives themselves are near enough the same length. Not at all the expected result.

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

A comment from @J-Mo Arts made me worry about the size of the Adams 380 class - will it fit in my loco release road? I did a quick comparison with the Adams A12 and, lo and behold, the 4-4-0 is shorter than the 0-4-2! The difference in length appears to come from the tender, as the locomotives themselves are near enough the same length. Not at all the expected result.

 

Precisely why both classes worked the Ilfraccombe branch.

 

I'd be interested in a print of the tender for my Steamroller conversion.

 

Nice work.

[Skinnylinny]

I'm sure a tender print could be arranged! Then again, what are your plans for the conversion? I'm aware the driving wheel size and spacing is the same as an Adams Radial, although the cylinders are different (angled on the 380 for a start!). I'm also working out how to do the front bogie wheels (10mm diameter discs (with one hole) - I'm thinking I'll probably re-axle some Gibson 10.5mm Lowmac wheels (and fill in one of the wheels) and call it close enough, unless anyone can recommend somewhere else to go? (Polite answers only!)

[Edwardian]

9 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

I'm sure a tender print could be arranged! Then again, what are your plans for the conversion? I'm aware the driving wheel size and spacing is the same as an Adams Radial, although the cylinders are different (angled on the 380 for a start!). I'm also working out how to do the front bogie wheels (10mm diameter discs (with one hole) - I'm thinking I'll probably re-axle some Gibson 10.5mm Lowmac wheels (and fill in one of the wheels) and call it close enough, unless anyone can recommend somewhere else to go? (Polite answers only!)

 

Thank you!

 

I cannot ignore the fact that the Hornby Radial gives me a working chassis. but I would be very interested both in the tender and whatever you might develop for the bogie and those little steamroller wheels. It;s presently too far down my to-do list for me to have down anything about these things!

[Skinnylinny]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Thank you!

 

I cannot ignore the fact that the Hornby Radial gives me a working chassis. but I would be very interested both in the tender and whatever you might develop for the bogie and those little steamroller wheels. It;s presently too far down my to-do list for me to have down anything about these things!

I did look long and hard at the Oxford Radial chassis I have here and concluded that, if I can make the chassis similarly to how I made the A12 chassis, it would probably be easier than trying to cut through the cast mazak chassis just behind the driving wheels. I don't know about the Hornby one, but the Oxford one is held together by dozens and dozens of tiny screws, with lots of bits having sprung electrical contacts rather than soldered joints. 

[Compound2632]

12 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Precisely why both classes worked the Ilfraccombe branch.

 

Turntable diameter, presumably? Not many 8-wheelers have wheelbase no longer than a 6-wheeler!

 

6 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

I did look long and hard at the Oxford Radial chassis I have here and concluded that, if I can make the chassis similarly to how I made the A12 chassis, it would probably be easier than trying to cut through the cast mazak chassis just behind the driving wheels. I don't know about the Hornby one, but the Oxford one is held together by dozens and dozens of tiny screws, with lots of bits having sprung electrical contacts rather than soldered joints. 

 

Would it be possible to transfer the Oxford or Hornby wheels, motor, pickups, etc. wholesale to a printed chassis block?

[Skinnylinny]

I imagine so, and indeed I have been looking at getting the coupling and connecting rods plus slidebar and crosshead from Hornby or Oxford parts, but designing a gearbox around existing gears when I don't know the dimensions of them is unlikely to be fun... plus I've had poor experiences of Oxford Adams Radial locos with very slow motors, and the spare chassis I have is one of those - it barely turns over at 9 volts!

Also, the Oxford model uses some very non-standard dimensions - 2mm driving wheel axles (in 1/8" o/d bearings!) and 1.5mm bogie axles!

Edited September 8, 2022 by Skinnylinny

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

I did look long and hard at the Oxford Radial chassis I have here and concluded that, if I can make the chassis similarly to how I made the A12 chassis, it would probably be easier than trying to cut through the cast mazak chassis just behind the driving wheels. I don't know about the Hornby one, but the Oxford one is held together by dozens and dozens of tiny screws, with lots of bits having sprung electrical contacts rather than soldered joints. 

 

I stripped down one of the Hornby ones to assess as I wanted to use them for both a Steamroller and a freelance WNR Beyer, inspired by the Lynn & Fakenham/MGB A Class. 

 

If I could find either it or mu photographs of it, I could be a lot more helpful right now!

 

Here is a borrowed one for now:

 

[Skinnylinny]

I rather suspect those big cast weights either side of the motor would need to go (they aren't present on the Oxford model) as there aren't side tanks to hide them on the 380. 

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

I rather suspect those big cast weights either side of the motor would need to go (they aren't present on the Oxford model) as there aren't side tanks to hide them on the 380. 

 

I really need to find mine, but I think it's all hackable plastic.

 

Thinking about it, a new 3D body for the loco is a good idea, because IIRC, although visually very similar, the 380's boiler is different in dimensions and pitch, so you can't use the Hornby or Oxford bodies.  

 

It might be worth retaining the Hornby running plate and marry it to a 3D print or scratch-built body. That might aid attachment to the Hornby chassis. I really need to find the wretched thing and check. 

 

[Skinnylinny]

Well, either way, a print of the tender would save you having to form all these rivets... I've not yet finished, but so far there are 384 rivets on this tender side alone!

 

[Skinnylinny]

986 rivets on the tender alone, and counting (but who's counting?)... Still need to add the toolboxes, which have plenty, and to form the top of the water tank, which also has plenty...

And so far, 384 on the locomotive, with many many more to go... So much for "Pre-grouping locos used flush-headed rivets"! *mutter, grumble*



Still, it's at times like this that I'm very glad I'm not embossing each and every one by hand in sheet brass!
 

[Compound2632]

On 08/09/2022 at 11:40, Skinnylinny said:

I rather suspect those big cast weights either side of the motor would need to go (they aren't present on the Oxford model) as there aren't side tanks to hide them on the 380. 

 

Are not the cab side sheets in the same place? Though the weights wouldn't do much for the appearance of the cab interior - but that would fatally compromised anyway by the width of the 00 splashers.

[Skinnylinny]

42 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Are not the cab side sheets in the same place? Though the weights wouldn't do much for the appearance of the cab interior - but that would fatally compromised anyway by the width of the 00 splashers.

Sadly not...  And also, what are solid tanks on the Adams Radial are not solid on the 380, but continued side sheets which only form a box part of the way up their sides (and are also shorter in length than the tanks on the Radial):



Image source: http://1920slocomotives.blogspot.com/2014/04/213-225-victorian-engineering.html

[Compound2632]

Just now, Skinnylinny said:

Sadly not...  

 

Which boilers do the two drawings depict? Adams or Drummond?

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which boilers do the two drawings depict? Adams or Drummond?

 

Adams. 

 

The 380 Class or 'Steamroller' had 5'7" coupled wheels at 8'6" centres in common with the 415 Radials. They were  built by Beyer Peacock in 1879.  

 

They were mixed traffic by South Western standards and were one of the few tender classes that could be accommodated on the Ilfracombe turntable before a larger table was provided in the 1920s, hence one is planned for Barnstaple Town. 

 

Although superficially similar in appearance to the Radials, nothing very much of the Hornby body other than, perhaps, the frames, is likely to be useful. One significant issue is that the 380's boiler diameter us greater and its pitch higher. 

 

I once took rather crude measurements to assess the difference at scale: 

 

- The top of the boiler on the Radial (not allowing for the cladding) I calculated as  36.35mm above rail height.

 

- The top of the boiler on the Steamroller (not allowing for the cladding) I calculated as  37.76mm above rail height.

 

My conclusion was that I would be scratch-building the body!

Edited September 10, 2022 by Edwardian

[hartleymartin]

On 20/02/2022 at 21:16, Skinnylinny said:

Well, the past nearly-a-month (goodness!) has been quite busy with various things, but some modelling has taken place:

I saw a cheap Bachmann On30 model of the Porter 0-4-0 on eBay, and couldn't resist. With some repainting to represent the polished wood cab and front bufferbeam pilot, Betsy is well on her way to being completed. Strictly, she needs her sand dome replaced with a round-topped one to be more accurate to the in-game version, but that may have to wait for now

On30 is definitely satisfying chunky compared to 4mm standard gauge, and I feel myself being drawn towards the dark side... although it is still pre-grouping in era!

 

I'd like know how "cheap" was cheap. It seems to be almost impossible to get one of these in Australia at the moment. Last few offers I have seen for these cost as much as a mid-range OO train set! I am still looking to obtain more of them, but it seems to be both easier and cheaper to obtain the On30 Mogul, usually in some silly "collectable" livery like Budweiser or McDonald's. Still waiting for mine to arrive, and now that I have seen the prices on the On30 Streetcar and Gas Mechanical, I am kicking myself for selling off the ones I had until about 5 or 6 years ago!

[Skinnylinny]

1 hour ago, hartleymartin said:

I'd like know how "cheap" was cheap. It seems to be almost impossible to get one of these in Australia at the moment. Last few offers I have seen for these cost as much as a mid-range OO train set! I am still looking to obtain more of them, but it seems to be both easier and cheaper to obtain the On30 Mogul, usually in some silly "collectable" livery like Budweiser or McDonald's. Still waiting for mine to arrive, and now that I have seen the prices on the On30 Streetcar and Gas Mechanical, I am kicking myself for selling off the ones I had until about 5 or 6 years ago!

I was lucky - "Betsy" was £50 including shipping, and is so far my most expensive piece of On30 stock. I have often seen them going at the sorts of prices you mention. Much of my On30 stock is repaints of the collectables - I believe my 2-6-0 started out as a Christmas one of some variety and set me back a horrifying £20, while the flatbed was a battered Thomas Kinkade gondola (with the sides and ends unclipped - £10) and two coaches and boxcars (also Kinkade, stripped of their garish printing with acetone (carefully!) and repainted - between £14 and £16 each)

The trick appears to be finding listings where the seller has no idea what they have, and hoping!

[hartleymartin]

22 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

The trick appears to be finding listings where the seller has no idea what they have, and hoping!

 

And hoping that no-one wants the "collectable" American branding sets. The 2-6-0 seems to be easy enough to obtain. I've got one dressed up in red "Budweiser" livery and another in silver+blue "Moonlight Express" and covered with wolves.

 

It seems that everyone is always on the hunt for a Porter. I just manage to get one on eBay and by the time it gets into my hands, it will not be quite so cheap. That is one of the disadvantages living in Australia. Seems like we get hit by the "ocean tax" for everything.

[Skinnylinny]

It's been a very busy month! Last weekend was spent at the Uckfield model railway exhibition, although for the first time I wasn't a steward, but manning the Rapido stand. It was really affirming to hear peoples' thoughts about our models. My own personal modelling has taken a bit of a back seat recently, but while I was down in the murky south, I collected a 3D print of the lead ore wagon from the previous page. It's come out beautifully (although the brake lever guide has snapped off, I must repair that!):



Even the raised lettering on the axleboxes has come out legibly, which I certainly wasn't expecting!



The wagon is now in the paint shop, gaining a livery of red oxide, as the actual colour worn by the wagon modelled is unknown. Based on the one photo I've been able to find, it doesn't appear to be black, so I've guessed it would either be red oxide or lead (grey) colour. Incidentally, what appears to be a bow in the solebar is in fact a camera artifact when taking close-up photographs, as looking along the bottom of the solebar on the unbraked side, it's dead straight.



But yes, today's CAD project is a 6t open built by the Gloucester Wagon & Carriage Company for Locket & Marychurch in 1862. It's a dinky little thing, at only 10' over body, with a wheelbase of just 4'9"! Still remaining to do on this one are the axlebox springs and the brake gear.

 

I think it quite unlikely that this would have either made it to Linton or lasted until 1910 in service, but it's such an adorable little beast I had to model it!

[Nick C]

That must have been horrifically unstable! 

[Skinnylinny]

One can only imagine so! However, they seem to have been fairly prolific in the Welsh valleys - I have drawings for three such wagons with similar wheelbases, all with sprung buffers at the door end and dumb buffers at the non-door end. 

This was intended to be a "quick" project, and so, in less than 48 hours, the wagon is completed. Less detail than would go into a Rapido one by far, but also far less prototype information available, and a lot of modeller's license. However, it looks rather cute, in my opinion!

[Caley Jim]

I drew, and had produced, an etch for one of these for a fellow 2MM SA member.  He sent me a drawing and several prototype photos, all of which had different details such as strapping and brakes!

 

Jim

[Skinnylinny]

Indeed - the three drawings I have all have different strapping, though they seem to have similar brakes (with two different types of brake lever - one style as shown above, the other with the more "standard" straightish lever sticking out along the solebar). All three are the products of the Gloucester Wagon Company (as was, later Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company). One has a slightly longer wheelbase, but does have side doors as well as the end doors. 

While the Locket & Marychurch wagon above was rated to carry 6 tons, the other two (John Glasbrook of Swansea, and Ynishir Steam Coal Co.) are rated to 7 and 8 tons respectively, with no one wagon having a tare weight of over 3t16cwt. The end door catches are also different on all three wagons. So much variety!