BR Departmental & Research Trains on Branch Lines

[FPH 603]

Hi all,

 

I am thinking of making a couple of departmental trains for my layout, but I am wondering what would be suitable for a branch line terminus, in particular for the 1960's and late 1970's - 1980's periods. I already own a breakdown crane (don't know if it even would be classed as a 'departmental' train, though!) but I am unsure of what would have operated specifically on a branch line.

 

Thanks to all that contribute.

Edited February 20, 2018 by DoubleDeckInterurban

[wirey33]

Think of weekend track renewal operations.....

 

New materials in (rail, sleepers, ballast)

 

Track plant in (small cranes not breakdown cranes, tampers, JCB on a low loader/warwell perhaps?)

 

Track plant out.

 

Old materials out (spent ballast, old rail, old sleepers) - Good weathering potential here too.

[FPH 603]

Think of weekend track renewal operations.....

 

New materials in (rail, sleepers, ballast)

 

Track plant in (small cranes not breakdown cranes, tampers, JCB on a low loader/warwell perhaps?)

 

Track plant out.

 

Old materials out (spent ballast, old rail, old sleepers) - Good weathering potential here too.

I don't model the modern era, so I don't know how this is going to work. Any images would be great though!

 

In the meantime I've thought up of some other trains, such as:

 

- A sandite vehicle converted from a DMU

 

- An RTC red/blue vehicle of some description

[The Johnster]

A breakdown crane is a large heavy lift beast designed to deal with the wreckage of a major derailment; it's job is initially to assist in the rescue of trapped or injured passengers and staff, then, in the second stage of the operation, the recovery of those who have sadly not survived, and thirdly to clear the line of wreckage so it can be re-opened to traffic as quickly as possible.

 

Such a crane is too large for most Per Way or other maintenance work, and this is performed by smaller, usually self propelled cranes of about 15 to 40 tons capacity; the Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster construction kit is idea for your period.  As produced, the kit assembles into a non powered crane on bogies for internal industrial use, but a version was produced for BR with a 4 wheeled rigid self powered chassis.  One from any Gresley pacific tender, picked up for pocket money from eBay or a secondhand stall, fits almost perfectly and looks the part well enough.  

 

You will need to make a 'match' wagon out of a bogie bolster, with a cradle to hold the jib and cabinets which contain the crane's tools and equipment.  Livery; grey up to about 1970 and yellow afterwards, so either is ok for you.  An old coach for the mess and tool van and a brake van, possibly engineering department but not a shark, and there's your train.  

 

Then of course you need another train of ballast dogfish, then one of sturgeons (flatbed bogie wagons to deliver new track sections and take away the old ones (the crane is to unload and load them), and another of grampuses (grampii?) and other opens for old sleepers, chairs, odd bits of rail, spoil, and other detritus.  Then, when everything else is finished, the tamping machine has to go over it.  A temporary speed restriction will be in force for a few weeks until the new track beds in.

 

Bad news is you need to invoke Rule 1 to do this on a regular basis, as relaying on a branch line usually made it good for the next 50 odd years apart from replacing the odd sleeper or rail length.

[wirey33]

I don't model the modern era, so I don't know how this is going to work. Any images would be great though!

 

In the meantime I've thought up of some other trains, such as:

 

- A sandite vehicle converted from a DMU

 

- An RTC red/blue vehicle of some description

 

Operations like those I described are hardly modern era; they’ve been going on for a long, long time.

 

And they 100% would have been happening during the era of DMUs and RTC vehicles (your era I assume?).

 

You need to understand the difference between “Departmental” / “Research” / “Internal User” vehicles etc.

 

Flickr is a good place to start, although obviously more focussed on recent times (i.e digital camera era)

 

Paul Bartlett’s wagons site is a wealth of info about individual wagons.

 

You should also look at www.departmetals.com

 

.

[wirey33]

Bad news is you need to invoke Rule 1 to do this on a regular basis, as relaying on a branch line usually made it good for the next 50 odd years apart from replacing the odd sleeper or rail length.

 

Signal replacement / upgrade and track consolidation are other possibilities.

 

A wagon full of cut-up semaphore posts, point rodding etc. is easily modeled.

Edited February 20, 2018 by wirey33

[black and decker boy]

Sandite trains were not needed in the 1960s as clasp brake trains and no trees (steam trains and embers are a natural management technique) on the lineside to cause adhesion problems. They only really came to the fore with the introduction of disc brake trains and the end of lineside vegetation management.

 

In the 60s, you would still have ballast trains - dogfish \ catfish \ mermaid and so on or maybe for smaller jobs just a few low fit \ med fit types with some fresh ballast and sleepers. Much was done manually.

 

In the 1980s, you still had very little investment in engineers trains and not too much mechanisation. for bigger jobs a JCB or other digger could be involved but wagons still ballast hoppers in bound, Salmon \ Sturgeon for new track panels, ex-16T or 27T moneral \ Stone wagons for spoil.

 

In all era, you can justify an inspection \ observation saloon with a rare loco.

 

RTC was for testing not really departmental general use so locos used for specific trains & purposes. You could class your branch as a 'test track' and hitch a new wagon type or new loco type to a red \ blue coach.

[iands]

Re the 'breakdown' crane, although as hinted above it would be a bit of an "overkill" to use it on ordinary track/signal renewal jobs. However, it could be used for "bridge replacement work" - do you have a bridge(s) on your layout? But as also hinted above, this would be pretty much a one-off event as most bridges would have a design life of about 120 years - unless of course Rule 1 applies!

 

Regards, Ian.

[Owd Bob]

Hope these help you a bit. I don't know what this old DMU was used for but it was parked up at Warrington back in the mid '90's. Would be a colourful and cheap-ish model to make i think! 

 

This sandite unit was at Springs branch Wigan in the mid '80's.

 

[Karhedron]

An Inspection Saloon hauled by a loco of your choice would be ideal. In the 60s I think they were maroon and by the late 70s/early 80s they were in blue/grey livery like this example on the Almwych branch.

 

 

If that floats your boat, there is a whole thread devoted to them here for you to browse. I don't know what scale you model but both 00 and N gauge versions are available.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76502-inspection-saloon/

[FPH 603]

Operations like those I described are hardly modern era; they’ve been going on for a long, long time.

 

And they 100% would have been happening during the era of DMUs and RTC vehicles (your era I assume?).

 

You need to understand the difference between “Departmental” / “Research” / “Internal User” vehicles etc.

 

Flickr is a good place to start, although obviously more focussed on recent times (i.e digital camera era)

 

Paul Bartlett’s wagons site is a wealth of info about individual wagons.

 

You should also look at www.departmetals.com

 

.

  

Ok, because I can't find very much about pre modern era operations, and as for the “Departmental” / “Research” / “Internal User” vehicles I have some knowledge of these but not very much - hence the reason I made this thread. I've renamed the thread to 'BR Departmental, Research & Internal User Trains on Branch Lines'. Both those websites will be very helpful (according to the quick look around I had 5 minutes ago!) and I will look into it further.

Signal replacement / upgrade and track consolidation are other possibilities.

 

A wagon full of cut-up semaphore posts, point rodding etc. is easily modeled.

  

 

This could work but this will depend on what infrastructure I put in based on the 1960's period as I feel this would be a 1980's upgrade sort of thing. I don't know when colour lights were introduced so I will need to put more thought into this too.

Sandite trains were not needed in the 1960s as clasp brake trains and no trees (steam trains and embers are a natural management technique) on the lineside to cause adhesion problems. They only really came to the fore with the introduction of disc brake trains and the end of lineside vegetation management.

 

In the 60s, you would still have ballast trains - dogfish \ catfish \ mermaid and so on or maybe for smaller jobs just a few low fit \ med fit types with some fresh ballast and sleepers. Much was done manually.

 

In the 1980s, you still had very little investment in engineers trains and not too much mechanisation. for bigger jobs a JCB or other digger could be involved but wagons still ballast hoppers in bound, Salmon \ Sturgeon for new track panels, ex-16T or 27T moneral \ Stone wagons for spoil.

 

In all era, you can justify an inspection \ observation saloon with a rare loco.

 

RTC was for testing not really departmental general use so locos used for specific trains & purposes. You could class your branch as a 'test track' and hitch a new wagon type or new loco type to a red \ blue coach.

  

Beeching would have axed the line by 1965, so perhaps in the gap between the 1960's and late 1970's the line may have been used as a test track (if that is even something that could have happened!) and perhaps one or two new designs may have been tested on the line. Just a thought.

 

Hope these help you a bit. I don't know what this old DMU was used for but it was parked up at Warrington back in the mid '90's. Would be a colourful and cheap-ish model to make i think! 

2011-01-08 16.49.36.jpg

 

This sandite unit was at Springs branch Wigan in the mid '80's.

2011-01-08 16.50.26.jpg

Both of those would make pretty good scratchbuilding projects and I think they would be also good painting and weathering practice.

[FPH 603]

An Inspection Saloon hauled by a loco of your choice would be ideal. In the 60s I think they were maroon and by the late 70s/early 80s they were in blue/grey livery like this example on the Almwych branch.If that floats your boat, there is a whole thread devoted to them here for you to browse. I don't know what scale you model but both 00 and N gauge versions are available.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76502-inspection-saloon/

Almost forgot, this sounds like a pretty good idea (and I can see others agree) although I must ask were these London Midland Region only or could these be found anywhere?

[iands]

Almost forgot, this sounds like a pretty good idea (and I can see others agree) although I must ask were these London Midland Region only or could these be found anywhere?

Could be found on all regions. One based at York for many years, could still be?

 

Regards, Ian.

[Karhedron]

Almost forgot, this sounds like a pretty good idea (and I can see others agree) although I must ask were these London Midland Region only or could these be found anywhere?

They got around a fair bit. Although some regions had their own designs (the SR and WR notably), the LMS versions were the most common and could be seen almost anywhere.

[Poor Old Bruce]

In Post#4 The johnster describes P-Way cranes as self-propelled. That would only be within a possession site or a yard and only at walking pace, in transit to and from site they would be loco-hauled. A mess van for the crane crew would probably be an old brake van, usually one without duckets which had been displaced from main line use so a GWR type or the Bachmann Midland one could be used. The interior would be fitted out with small cooker and a table plus (possibly) a bunk bed for longer outings.

 

Regarding Research test trains, I think the blue and red livery came in some time in the 1970s. Before then, Lab coaches kept their ex-service livery but with lettering to denote their current use. Something like Laboratory Coach No.XX, Research and Development Division. Derby. Lab 4 was some sort of ex-L&YR saloon vehicle, and Labs 9 and 10 were ex-LMS Porthole BSKs with a generator in the brake area and the two middle compartments combined to make an instrumentation area. Test trains would comprise of a loco, Lab Coach and a test vehicle which could be anything from a Vanfit to a 100T GLW tank wagon (no cissy extra 'brake force' coaches in those days!). They didn't venture down branch line very often though. Parts of the GNR line between Derby Friargate and Egginton Junction were used on occasions (usually a Sunday) while the line was still open but that's about it that I know of.

 

The Duffield to Wirksworth branch was used for checking out DMU power cars ex-works from Derby C&W Works, up to five or six cars at a time to give them a shakedown before letting them loose into traffic again. They would run up and down between Duffield and Idridghay in a morning, go up to Wirksworth at dinner time (lunch time if you are posh) to allow an empty stone train up the branch and then have another afternoon session of trials.

[black and decker boy]

As PoB says, the Wirksworth branch is a good example and was used for research and test purposes. Similarly, the Old Dalby branch is and has been a test track for many years so test running new locos, wagons, coaches etc with test coaches attached.

[Edwin_m]

  

Ok, because I can't find very much about pre modern era operations, and as for the “Departmental” / “Research” / “Internal User” vehicles I have some knowledge of these but not very much - hence the reason I made this thread. I've renamed the thread to 'BR Departmental, Research & Internal User Trains on Branch Lines'. Both those websites will be very helpful (according to the quick look around I had 5 minutes ago!) and I will look into it further.

  

 

This could work but this will depend on what infrastructure I put in based on the 1960's period as I feel this would be a 1980's upgrade sort of thing. I don't know when colour lights were introduced so I will need to put more thought into this too.

  

Beeching would have axed the line by 1965, so perhaps in the gap between the 1960's and late 1970's the line may have been used as a test track (if that is even something that could have happened!) and perhaps one or two new designs may have been tested on the line. Just a thought.

 

 

Both of those would make pretty good scratchbuilding projects and I think they would be also good painting and weathering practice.

Both the Old Dalby and the Mickleover test tracks were closed to normal traffic in the 1960s, having previously been the Midland Nottingham-Melton line and the GNR westwards from Derby Friargate.  So both were really secondary main lines rather than branches, but Old Dalby had a higher operating speed which was important for some tests.  Mickleover would have had more of a branch line feel.   It closed in around 1990 as two tracks weren't considered necessary and there would have been extra cost to build a bridge over it on a new bypass road.  Old Dalby is still very much open and used mainly for mileage accumulation of new fleets. 

 

While there was clearly a benefit in having tracks dedicated to testing with no normal train service to worry about, as mentioned some test runs took place on lines open to normal traffic or perhaps under engineering possession.  For example the Lab 5 DMU was used by BR Research for developing track geometry recording technology, and would often appear on the line through Mansfield in the late 80s.  I think it was needed for some calibration purpose to visit the same route reasonably frequently.  This unit (and the later loco-hauled replacements) would also appear on other routes to supplement the civil engineer's fleet of recording vehicles when necessary. 

 

From the 1990s onwards there was also some testing activity on preserved railways.  I was most disappointed when the management at BR Research vetoed steam haulage when testing a new track recording coach for Spain on the Nene Valley.  Wirksworth and the GCR Loughborough section are particularly popular for this.  Sometimes a heritiage railway will swing a deal to get itself upgraded as part of a testing or training exercise for a track maintainer, so may see new on-track plant for example. 

 

Moving to modern times Network Rail has the remains of the LD&ECR through to Tuxford as a test track mainly for on-track plant, and Hertford North to Stevenage has been re-signalled so the off-peak service can run on one track with the other being available for testing new signalling systems. 

[Mark Saunders]

The title including "internal user trains" in the title does not make sense as the term "Internal User" (IU)  is for vehicles that are not generally allowed on the mainline and restricted to a particular location!

 

If IU's are to travel over the mainline they are specially examined and labelled for one journey only. BR renumbered stock for internal users into regional number series. 02XXXX for Southern, 04XXXX Eastern , 06XXXX Midland and 09XXXX for Scottish. In South Wales the NCB used an 07XXXX series and  British Transport Docks at Hartlepool used an 05 series, I am unsure if these filling gaps in the BR series is planned or coincidence?

 

The movement of industrial IU wagons was not unknown between steelworks, collieries or Ministry of Defence locations and also new build from manufacturers!

 

Mark

[The Johnster]

Poor Old Bruce's comments about self propulsion of cranes during possessions are correct; the crane would be loco-hauled to the site with the driving wheels out of gear and free running.  The mess coach or van may depend on location or period; one of these cranes was based at Radyr PAD (Pre Assembled track Depot) and worked self propelled in that yard, and was then at weekends hauled to relaying sites where it would also move around under it's own power within the possession.  In the late 60s and 70s this crane had an olive green liveried Hawksworth BSK as a mess and tool coach.

[FPH 603]

The title including "internal user trains" in the title does not make sense as the term "Internal User" (IU)  is for vehicles that are not generally allowed on the mainline and restricted to a particular location!

 

If IU's are to travel over the mainline they are specially examined and labelled for one journey only. BR renumbered stock for internal users into regional number series. 02XXXX for Southern, 04XXXX Eastern , 06XXXX Midland and 09XXXX for Scottish. In South Wales the NCB used an 07XXXX series and  British Transport Docks at Hartlepool used an 05 series, I am unsure if these filling gaps in the BR series is planned or coincidence?

 

The movement of industrial IU wagons was not unknown between steelworks, collieries or Ministry of Defence locations and also new build from manufacturers!

 

Mark

Title edited.

[FPH 603]

Proposed but never built DMUs in 1959 :

 

Diesel Inspection Saloon

 

Unknown vehicles

 

General Manager's Inspection Coach

Could be a good little conversion project for someone.

Methinks that one of these would make a good project... Found on the Inspection Saloon thread.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Methinks that one of these would make a good project... Found on the Inspection Saloon thread.

 

The Eastern Region used a Wickham two-car DMU as Manager's saloon for a while