sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Whilst I think that most here will agree that LNWR Lined Black looks good on most things, diesesal fans would have you think that this livery looks good on anything: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I've been reading more on this stuff than is really good for me I think... I reckon you need to upgrade your protaganists to Barons: unless I misunderstand what I'm reading baronets are merely gentry, not nobility, and didn't get to sit in the House of Lords. Coat of arms might well not have supporters and just be a shield. He would be, I suppose, Baron Bradleigh of somewhere, presumably Kelsby. A quick scan - "Wikipedia research" suggests most mid 19thC Baronies were either politicians or military. That's relevant because Coats of arms often had something to do with the holder on. I wonder of your Baron had something to do with introducing steam ships to the Royal Navy, and had something like HMS Warrior on his shield? A keen maritime steam enthusiast's son might well be interested in railways... Also if we have a steam associated military man I thought of a gloriously silly motto - vapor ad victoria ~ steam towards victory... Appaling puns on the holders name are also a thing in heraldry, what can you think of for Bradleigh? Here's half a shield with the steam ship on, need something for the top half. Resemblance to shield of Bristol not coincidental! bradleigh.jpg Crazy isn't it, you start with making up a fictional back story for your model railway, and before you know it your inventing an entire Victorian dynasty... Oh wow, very nice. The Bradleigh dynasty are, originally, politicians, though later they became somewhat less involved in politics and more involved with the running of the railway David, 2nd Baronet Bradleigh, created, the ownership and running of which has become the family's proudest legacy. The top half I'd probably split. On the left a heron or other such symbol of the Cambridgeshire Fens, the other would probably be their heraldic animal, which is a black ram. And yes, weird how that happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 Whilst I think that most here will agree that LNWR Lined Black looks good on most things, diesesal fans would have you think that this livery looks good on anything: LBSCR A1 (Loadhaul - 1).png The poor thing!!!! What did it ever do to you to deserve that????????? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Whilst I think that most here will agree that LNWR Lined Black looks good on most things, diesesal fans would have you think that this livery looks good on anything: LBSCR A1 (Loadhaul - 1).png The poor thing!!!! What did it ever do to you to deserve that????????? Gary Geez, sem. And I thought your neon E5 looked horrendous! Edited April 3, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Oh wow, very nice. The Bradleigh dynasty are, originally, politicians, though later they became somewhat less involved in politics and more involved with the running of the railway David, 2nd Baronet Bradleigh, created, the ownership and running of which has become the family's proudest legacy. The top half I'd probably split. On the left a heron or other such symbol of the Cambridgeshire Fens, the other would probably be their heraldic animal, which is a black ram. And yes, weird how that happens. Do you want to lose the steam ship then? Need to think about colours a lot more, its far too bitty. Edited April 3, 2018 by JimC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Do you want to lose the steam ship then? Need to think about colours a lot more, its far too bitty. bradleigh3.jpg I'd replace the steam ship with a locomotive actually. I'm sure the 4th Baronet would have had it changed considering how much of his life he dedicated to the KLR. Though yes, the bittiness is a bit of an issue. Edited April 3, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I was trying to prove a point! They all say that that livery looks good on anything and I was trying to prove how awful it looks!!! I think it's hideous... The neon E5 is now suitable toned-down. At least there I was trying to get an appropriate shade! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) I'd replace the steam ship with a locomotive actually. I'm sure the 4th Baronet would have had it changed considering how much of his life he dedicated to the KLR. Though yes, the bittiness is a bit of an issue. I'm not sure you're actually allowed to change your coat of arms, but maybe the 1st Baronet was a major player in sorting out the chaos of the bank collapses after the railway mania bubble burst and got his status for that. That's a better fit with your concept of the family as political anyway. I think the trouble here though is that whereas with London and Surrey and Wimbledon and Sutton I was just hacking existing coats of arms, and had excellent material, this is more like starting from scratch, and its painfully obvious how little I know about it. However I read up a bit more and tried to get something a bit simpler. I moved the Heron up to the crest, and apparently a Baronet has that sort of face on helmet. The steam engine probably needs work, I took an existing drawing of something 1850s, hopefully it looks vaguely generic. I tried to make the colours a bit less random and a bit more in line with what a 20 minute study of heraldry led me to believe was good practice. Really though a heraldry forum (they must exist!) ought to be the place to get coats of arms designed. I'm sure such a place would laugh themselves sick at this, and good luck to them. Anyway, for what its worth.. Edited April 3, 2018 by JimC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 See, it does get worse... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 I think I'm going to have to report you to the RSPCL!!!! Gary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I am trying to show this kind of cruelty to the world in an attempt for people to appreciate how horrific modern liveries are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 but the poor Terriers that are suffering!!! I can see them pleading for the scrappers torch!!!! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I promise to cease this now needless torture. My point has now been proven. Still, some b*gger will try and say NR Yellow is like this beautiful livery: 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 I'm sure people will, but at least we will know it's not as good as Improved Engine Green!!!! Gary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 I am trying to show this kind of cruelty to the world in an attempt for people to appreciate how horrific modern liveries are! They are not horrific, simply modern. And an improvement on BR Blue. As to your Stroudley livery, the dirty secret is that it was only possible thanks to the constant attention of poorly paid shed staff. I don't know about the Brighton but I do recall reading a memoir of an old railwayman who started as an apprentice on the Netherlands Central, which also had a yellow livery, in which he said that you turned up to work, got a rag and some oil and started cleaning. And kept cleaning until someone gave you something else to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Careful what you wish for... or don't wish for... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 Weren't the Vale of Rheidol locos in that monstrous livery once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2018 Wrong blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) I realise you are all having a bit of fun with possible liveries, but it is worth considering what the paint technology of the time was like. Of course, that didn't stop the railway companies creating their own and varied liveries, but I think adopting the colours used at the time would be important. How you mix and match those will create your own distinctive livery, which is what they were doing. Some earlier liveries were more complex (NER locos for example) but later simplified to reduce painting and repainting costs as loco and carriage fleets grew. Some liveries were superb, others less so. The LBSCR Atlantic on display on the Bachmann stand, brown with gold lining, frankly looked horrible next to its GNR counterpart - shades of brown as a friend put it.. That might be one way to create a distinctive fictional colour scheme, choose two or three "period" colours that look awful together. Edited for spooling Edited April 4, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) I realise you are all having a bit of fun with possible liveries, but it is worth considering what the paint technology of the time was like. Of course, that didn't stop the railway companies creating there own and varied liveries, but I think adopting the colours used at the time would be important. How you mix and match those will create your own distinctive livery, which is what they were doing. Some earlier liveries were more complex (NER locos for example) but later simplified to reduce painting and repainting costs as loco and carriage fleets grew. Some liveries were superb, others less so. The LBSCR Atlantic on display on the Bachmann stand, brown with gold lining, frankly looked horrible next to its GNR counterpart - shades of brown as a friend put it.. That might be one way to create a distinctive fictional colour scheme, choose two or three "period" colours that look awful together. Interesting theory. I'll stick to my fern green and Egyptian blue though. Edited April 4, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGN Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I'm not sure you're actually allowed to change your coat of arms, but maybe the 1st Baronet was a major player in sorting out the chaos of the bank collapses after the railway mania bubble burst and got his status for that. That's a better fit with your concept of the family as political anyway. I think the trouble here though is that whereas with London and Surrey and Wimbledon and Sutton I was just hacking existing coats of arms, and had excellent material, this is more like starting from scratch, and its painfully obvious how little I know about it. However I read up a bit more and tried to get something a bit simpler. I moved the Heron up to the crest, and apparently a Baronet has that sort of face on helmet. The steam engine probably needs work, I took an existing drawing of something 1850s, hopefully it looks vaguely generic. I tried to make the colours a bit less random and a bit more in line with what a 20 minute study of heraldry led me to believe was good practice. Really though a heraldry forum (they must exist!) ought to be the place to get coats of arms designed. I'm sure such a place would laugh themselves sick at this, and good luck to them. Anyway, for what its worth.. bradleigh7.jpg Well, it's not bad ... but you have breached the cardinal rule of heraldry that metals cannot abut metals and tinctures cannot abut tinctures. (Think about the mediaeval technology of making a shield ... you either had a painted wooden shield to which you affixed metal charges ... or you had a metal field on which you painted the charges.) You have or abutting azure for the fields of your two halves. That having been said, coats of arms invented in the 19th century were notorious for this sort of thing, so I think you can get away with it. I have rather greater concerns about your motto. Your cases are all wrong. "vi" is either dative or ablative, whereas "vapor" is either nominative or vocative. This makes no sense. If you had "vi vaporis", however, then we can read "vi" as ablative and "vaporis" can only be genitive, giving us "by the power of steam" which is probably, I think, the meaning you intended to convey is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 4, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2018 “People who are called Romans they go the house?” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Bloody hell, there are people who paid attention in Latin lessons? All I recall are puellae in herba sunt. For some reason that stuck in the mind as an adolescent youth. Edited April 5, 2018 by whart57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Bloody hell, there are people who paid attention in Latin lessons? All I recall are puellae in herba sunt. For some reason that stuck in the mind as an adolescent youth. Better than mine. All I can remember is "Red sum. Mus sum." "I am Red. I am a mouse" isn't exactly a useful statement unless you want to make people slowly back away from you because they think you're nuts. I mean I am, what I do on here should be evidence enough of that, but that's besides the point Edited April 5, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 OK, to back away from half a century ago Latin lessons (and fantasies of girls in the grass .....) The last week or so I have been in high interrupt mode so not been able to commit to serious modelling. Instead I have pottered away on my timetable. I have a draft and that confirms that on a normal day there are fifteen passenger engines in service and probably five goods engines steamed up. Given an estimate of 50% availability for the nineteenth century steam locomotive that means the L&SR needs at least thirty passenger locos and ten goods. And given it's a cash strapped affair it's unlikely to have much more. So this is my draft of a loco roster Companies classifying locos by class name was still evolving in 1891 so here only the newest 4-4-0s are called A class. The loco department hasn't got around to classifying the rest and the old generic names based on builder are still in use. Over the next few days I'll expand on my thinking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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