JimC Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 For some strange reason I fancied doing some crests for your imaginary lines... They're highly derivative of GWR types, but when you look at some of the real ones they all seemed to steal each others ideas, so maybe its not too far fetched,,, London and Surrey = two shields, with a pre 1938 Surrey County badge. Maybe just too much like GWR? Garters seemed to feature in a lot of pre group crests, so I stole a GWR one I drew earlier. Rather than put a full heraldic contents, I just picked a couple of items. The double headed eagle is well associated with Wimbledon, but Sutton is a bit more difficult, but some things I found featured the keys, so I thoughjt eagle holding the keys might work... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted April 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2018 That's really cool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 For some strange reason I fancied doing some crests for your imaginary lines... They're highly derivative of GWR types, but when you look at some of the real ones they all seemed to steal each others ideas, so maybe its not too far fetched,,, The Caledonian Railway blatantly stole the Scottish Royal Coat of Arms and seem to have got away with it and not incurred the wrath of The Lord Lyon King of Arms! The double headed eagle is also the coat of arms of Lanark, its use having been granted to the 3rd Earl of Hyndford by the King of Prussia in 1742. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whart57 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 That London and Surrey one is exactly what I had in mind, as you say company crests often used city and town heraldry. I've saved a copy to my project folder 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 For some strange reason I fancied doing some crests for your imaginary lines... They're highly derivative of GWR types, but when you look at some of the real ones they all seemed to steal each others ideas, so maybe its not too far fetched,,, London and Surrey = two shields, with a pre 1938 Surrey County badge. Maybe just too much like GWR? londonsurrey.jpg Garters seemed to feature in a lot of pre group crests, so I stole a GWR one I drew earlier. Rather than put a full heraldic contents, I just picked a couple of items. The double headed eagle is well associated with Wimbledon, but Sutton is a bit more difficult, but some things I found featured the keys, so I thoughjt eagle holding the keys might work... wimbledonsutton..jpg Ooh! Ooh! Do the Kelsby Light Railway next! Great job. Looks like they could genuinely be for real railways. That's awesome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Some time ago, Phil Sutters of this parish kindly produced this version of my rather crude hand-drawn design: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I decided to do up some liveries for the LGWR and the WSR. I also found my original LGWR samples: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Here's another London Surrey one, as I was stuck waiting for someone to come this morning. A sheep for the wool trade, a Cockerel for Dorking. No doubt everyone who actually knows about heraldry is falling about laughing at this, but hey, that means I've made someone happy! Thanks to the folks on Wikipedia commons I stole the surrey badges, the sheep, the cockerel and the leaves from... Edited April 3, 2018 by JimC 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I decided to do up some liveries for the LGWR and the WSR. I also found my original LGWR samples: LBSCR A1 (WSR).png LGWR Shed.png LGWR.png Post LGWR.png LGWR Coaches.png LBSCR A1 (LG&WR).png LGWR Shed.png Very nice! Rails of Sheffield can expect a large order in due course, then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Some time ago, Phil Sutters of this parish kindly produced this version of my rather crude hand-drawn design: I should explain: The Dodo is from the crest of the Erstwhiles of Aching Hall - the then Lord Erstwhile was a key promoter of the line in the 1850s. The ship is for Birchoverham Next The Sea, the principle port on the line, and latterly also a genteel seaside resort The mitre is for Bishop's Lynn, another important port, and the western limit of the network The castle is for Castle Aching, the southern terminus of the line. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ooh! Ooh! Do the Kelsby Light Railway next! Tricky, there doesn't seem to be much source material... Living in Surrey its easy for me to pick out local heraldry in so much as I know anything about it. Actually, reading your imaginary history, wouldn't your Baronet Bradleigh have had his own coat of arms used on the stock? That doesn't advance us very far since I can't find a real Bradleigh coat of arms on the net, but it seems the task is to figure out a coat of arms for the Baronet, but they seem to be so random. Find two or three svg coats of arms on Wikipedia and combine bits of them... There are probably rules about what a Baronets coat of arms is supposed to look like, but I don't know that stuff! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Tricky, there doesn't seem to be much source material... Living in Surrey its easy for me to pick out local heraldry in so much as I know anything about it. Actually, reading your imaginary history, wouldn't your Baronet Bradleigh have had his own coat of arms used on the stock? That doesn't advance us very far since I can't find a real Bradleigh coat of arms on the net, but it seems the task is to figure out a coat of arms for the Baronet, but they seem to be so random. Find two or three svg coats of arms on Wikipedia and combine bits of them... There are probably rules about what a Baronets coat of arms is supposed to look like, but I don't know that stuff! Oh. Yeah, that's a good point actually, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 It is believed there was also an A1 Terrier sold off to the little known Broughton & Dunnerdale Light Railway in Cumbria. Records have as yet been unable to confirm exactly which example it was, as all traces of its previous ownership and number had been obliterated by a healthy coat of green paint before arrival in 1907... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 It is believed there was also an A1 Terrier sold off to the little known Broughton & Dunnerdale Light Railway in Cumbria. Records have as yet been unable to confirm exactly which example it was, as all traces of its previous ownership and number had been obliterated by a healthy coat of green paint before arrival in 1907... Ah, I guess that's and ex-Pauling & Co. Loco. Two of the A1's came from that batch. They say that at least one was sold to Argentina, but I expect the historians were mistaken and it ended up at Dunnerdale instead. Do you have any details of the B&DLR liver? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ah, I guess that's and ex-Pauling & Co. Loco. Two of the A1's came from that batch. They say that at least one was sold to Argentina, but I expect the historians were mistaken and it ended up at Dunnerdale instead. Do you have any details of the B&DLR liver? Loving the new avatar, Sem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 Ah, I guess that's and ex-Pauling & Co. Loco. Two of the A1's came from that batch. They say that at least one was sold to Argentina, but I expect the historians were mistaken and it ended up at Dunnerdale instead. Do you have any details of the B&DLR liver? Sem I think you are probably right there - I believe there was some reference in the company minutes to Pauling & Co., so this could well have been it! There have been various permutations of livery on the railway over the years - in the early days (1903-4 onwards) it was “Light green, slightly darker than than on the North Eastern, lined out with broad black lines edged with white, with bufferbeams and coupling rods bright red”. (It is believed that the Directors had paid a visit to the North Sunderland Railway shortly after that opened, hence the very similar livery for their own Manning Wardle L class and later locos) In the late 1930s the lining was changed to a simple broad red line, retaining the light green body colour, and in the very later years of the company (it remained independent until closure in 1972) the loco livery changed completely and they were painted “Furness Red, lined black edged red/orange in homage to the late lamented Furness Railway”. The railway owned 3 Terriers in total, the original A1, and two later A1X examples, one of which was believed to have been purchased from the defunct Edge Hill Light Railway, the other coming direct from the Southern in the late 1920s... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Well... There were several factors that motivated me to change my identification photograph: 1.) I seem to lurk on the pre-grouping forum constantly, so having a Bulleid Pacific number as my avatar made little sense. Though my username is perhaps a bit more confusing... 2.) I want to make as much use of my Terrier drawing as possible. 3.) I now own quite a few more terriers than Bulleids. May I ask, Neil, what these locos were named and numbered and how these means of identification were mounted? May I also ask how ownership was presented? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Well... There were several factors that motivated me to change my identification photograph: 1.) I seem to lurk on the pre-grouping forum constantly, so having a Bulleid Pacific number as my avatar made little sense. Though my username is perhaps a bit more confusing... 2.) I want to make as much use of my Terrier drawing as possible. 3.) I now own quite a few more terriers than Bulleids. All understandable reasons. Edited April 3, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 Well... There were several factors that motivated me to change my identification photograph: 1.) I seem to lurk on the pre-grouping forum constantly, so having a Bulleid Pacific number as my avatar made little sense. Though my username is perhaps a bit more confusing... 2.) I want to make as much use of my Terrier drawing as possible. 3.) I now own quite a few more terriers than Bulleids. May I ask, Neil, what these locos were named and numbered and how these means of identification were mounted? May I also ask how ownership was presented? Sem, none of them carried numbers (we’re not organised enough for that!) However we do know that the following names were carried: MW Altered L class 0-6-0ST “Dunnerdale” MW F class 0-4-0ST “Broughton” MW K class 0-6-0ST “Seathwaite” A1 “Robin” A1X “Swallow” A1X “Lark” (converted to 2-4-0T after front axle broke in 1935) Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST “Grey Friar” Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T “Harter Fell” Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST “Dow Crag” LSWR B4 0-4-0T “Tarn Beck” Fowler 0-4-0DM “Viking” Hunslet 0-6-0DM “River Duddon” (the last loco on the line) Nameplates were generally mounted centrally on the side tanks/saddletanks, and on the cabsides for the diesels. No crests or lettering to denote the railway company were carried either, except on the rolling stock (which was a hotchpotch of second hand castoffs). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brack Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I should explain: The Dodo is from the crest of the Erstwhiles of Aching Hall - the then Lord Erstwhile was a key promoter of the line in the 1850s. I'd assumed it was a turkey to symbolise Norfolk's most famous son. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted April 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 3, 2018 They look brilliant - thank you Sem! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Nameplates were generally mounted centrally on the side tanks/saddletanks, and on the cabsides for the diesels. No crests or lettering to denote the railway company were carried either, except on the rolling stock (which was a hotchpotch of second hand castoffs).Interesting. I do the KLR in the same way, except they also carry their numbers on their cab sides. Edited April 3, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Anyone else got any terrier livery requests?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Oh. Yeah, that's a good point actually, sorry. I've been reading more on this stuff than is really good for me I think... I reckon you need to upgrade your protaganists to Barons: unless I misunderstand what I'm reading baronets are merely gentry, not nobility, and didn't get to sit in the House of Lords. Coat of arms might well not have supporters and just be a shield. He would be, I suppose, Baron Bradleigh of somewhere, presumably Kelsby. A quick scan - "Wikipedia research" suggests most mid 19thC Baronies were either politicians or military. That's relevant because Coats of arms often had something to do with the holder on. I wonder of your Baron had something to do with introducing steam ships to the Royal Navy, and had something like HMS Warrior on his shield? A keen maritime steam enthusiast's son might well be interested in railways... Also if we have a steam associated military man I thought of a gloriously silly motto - vapor ad victoria ~ steam towards victory... Appaling puns on the holders name are also a thing in heraldry, what can you think of for Bradleigh? Here's half a shield with the steam ship on, need something for the top half. Resemblance to shield of Bristol not coincidental! Crazy isn't it, you start with making up a fictional back story for your model railway, and before you know it your inventing an entire Victorian dynasty... Edited April 3, 2018 by JimC 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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