Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

GCR lined livery on a 8K, - sounds very tricky.  Should look lovely once it's done though.

[Annie]

A snap taken while doing some testing on my old resurrected TS2009 layout .

 

[Edwardian]

And this is where I'm a bit stuck Jim as the axleboxes on my GER wagon are completely incorrect 1923 RCH pattern.  I do have a mesh for a set of circa 1907 underframe parts and brakes with grease axle boxes that will plug into this wagon and replace the 1923 RCH parts, but the 1907 set doesn't have 'V' hangers.  There is a 'V' hanger mesh I could use, but I would have to script it into place with magical coding incantations and I don't feel very confident about doing that.

 

Sooooooo theoretically in a make believe world my GER open wagon could now be a 10 tonner due to its time warp transported oil axleboxes, but it's not an option I feel very happy about.

 

Yes, those axleboxes do not look like any of the GER pattern.

 

It's entirely possible that retrofitted as Jin suggests, they could be re-rated.  A good example with which I am familiar is the LNWR open in the Ratio kit.  It's feasible, therefore.  I just don't know if it was done to these wagons, or, if so, when.  If it was done after 1900, I wouldn't expect the GER to come up with an oval capacity, sorry, weight plate, because they had gone over to rectangular combination plates. 

[Annie]

I do have a very good picture of a diamond shaped LNWR 8 ton upgrade plate which I intend to use on a variation of my LNWR open wagons.  And I also have similar diamond shaped upgrade plates for the GWR, the Barry Railway and the Rhymney Railway, - which leads me to wonder that this was a standard format for upgrade plates.  As to whether or not the GER used such plates on their wagons I wouldn't have a clue.

 

 

However I am going to have a go at trying to get my wagon to have grease axleboxes and I'll also sort out the incorrect 10 ton plate at the same time.

 

Other GER plates I have.

 

    

 

[Edwardian]

I do have a very good picture of a diamond shaped LNWR 8 ton upgrade plate which I intend to use on a variation of my LNWR open wagons.  And I also have similar diamond shaped upgrade plates for the GWR, the Barry Railway and the Rhymney Railway, - which leads me to wonder that this was a standard format for upgrade plates.  As to whether or not the GER used such plates on their wagons I wouldn't have a clue.

 

 

However I am going to have a go at trying to get my wagon to have grease axleboxes and I'll also sort out the incorrect 10 ton plate at the same time.

 

Other GER plates I have.

 

    

 

 

 

That is fascinating. The rectangular plate is of the type I mentioned, the combined builder's and weight plates applied from 1900.  See picture below.

 

Then you have the pre-1900 oval separate plates for builder's and weight, as per your wagon.  And guess what, you have an oval plate showing 10 Tons!

 

This could indeed mean a upgrade.

 

Not sure where to go to get to the bottom of this, but great to see these.    

[sem34090]

GCR lined livery on a 8K, - sounds very tricky.  Should look lovely once it's done though.

Given I have so far failed to get ROD livery to work! The lettering is upside down and back to front!

[Regularity]

Given I have so far failed to get ROD livery to work! The lettering is upside down and back to front!

Australian ROD viewed in the mirror?

[Annie]

Given I have so far failed to get ROD livery to work! The lettering is upside down and back to front!

I don't like meshes that use their textures in odd ways either Sem.  Reversals and mirror imaging of textures are annoying, but sometimes can be fixed by making the texture upside down and back to front in the hope that it will be correct on the model.  Unless of course it's using the same texture for both sides and then it becomes a real pain because one side will always be wrong.

[Annie]

That is fascinating. The rectangular plate is of the type I mentioned, the combined builder's and weight plates applied from 1900.  See picture below.

 

Then you have the pre-1900 oval separate plates for builder's and weight, as per your wagon.  And guess what, you have an oval plate showing 10 Tons!

 

This could indeed mean a upgrade.

 

Not sure where to go to get to the bottom of this, but great to see these.    

Yes it's a bit of a puzzle alright James.  I was lucky with finding nice clear images of the plates, but that oval 10 ton one did have me a bit mystified.  I shouldn't have too many problems with drawing up a 9 ton version, but the question still remains as to just what the 10 ton one was originally attached to.

 

I'm going to do a version of my GER wagon in the later livery with the large letters, but can't do one with a steel underframe unless I get lucky with finding a steel underframe mesh I can use.  The later fancy spring loaded side door arrangement instead of the traditional 'door banger' is something I won't be able to represent on my model either so that might end up being a bit of a compromise as well.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Annie

[Annie]

So I've done a 9 ton version of the GER open wagon.  It seemed to take me ages to draw a GER style '9' that I actually liked.  Yes I know it's one of those details that most folk wouldn't even notice, but I really don't like using modern fonts on pre-grouping wagons because the old railway companies' lettering is very individual and most modern fonts don't even come close to being correct for them.

I did my best to fit earlier brakes and axleboxes, but it was the 'V' hangers that completely defeated me.  The best I could do was have 'V' hangers on one side of the wagon only and I had absolutely no luck with placing them on the other side.  If I knew how to do 3D modelling I could have done it easily, but placing objects using scripting alone was a total washout.  So my pre-grouping open wagons will just have to put up with having 1923 RCH brakes and axleboxes and like it..

Possibly I could ask the very helpful chap who made the LNWR brake van to make me a plain wagon body of the kind I use for my 'litho' type models and place it on one of his exquisite pre-grouping wagon underframes, but I really don't want to be bothering him with too many cries for assistance.  My methods are very 'retro' as nearly all of the latest generation models for trains are fully 3D modelled and don't need to use my old school texture tricks to suggest depth and structure.  But the thing is I like working this way and I don't need to be a 3D modeller to do it.  And what's more they look good, - or at least I think so. - and I like making them.

 

I'm going to do another 9 ton number variation of this wagon and then I think that will do.  I'll upload it to Auran's Download Station and Trainz folk can make up their own minds as to whether or not to run a proper 9 tonner or an upgraded 10 tonner that has an uncertain provenance on their train sets.

 

 

It's quite funny at the moment because the main goods yard on Valleyfields, - my GCR layout, - is stuffed full of goods vans and wagons of my own devising from several pre-grouping railways and there's hardly a GCR van or open wagon to be seen.

[Annie]

Paul of Paulz Trainz gave me a few extra locomotives with my last order and this is one of them.  At the moment this L&Y class 27 is lurking on Valleyfields, bu I must confess that I'm not really all that sure what I'm going to do with it.  It's fairly plain that Paul used the preserved L&Y class 25 No, 957 as a guide to the livery details since he's put a Beyer-Peacock makers plate the same as No. 957 has on his class 27 model.  The only problem is though, all the class 27's were built by the L&Y at Horwich.  Otherwise I think it's a nice enough loco and I certainly enjoy running the early period BR pair I have on Middlevales.

 

[Edwardian]

So I've done a 9 ton version of the GER open wagon.  It seemed to take me ages to draw a GER style '9' that I actually liked.  Yes I know it's one of those details that most folk wouldn't even notice, but I really don't like using modern fonts on pre-grouping wagons because the old railway companies' lettering is very individual and most modern fonts don't even come close to being correct for them.

I did my best to fit earlier brakes and axleboxes, but it was the 'V' hangers that completely defeated me.  The best I could do was have 'V' hangers on one side of the wagon only and I had absolutely no luck with placing them on the other side.  If I knew how to do 3D modelling I could have done it easily, but placing objects using scripting alone was a total washout.  So my pre-grouping open wagons will just have to put up with having 1923 RCH brakes and axleboxes and like it..

Possibly I could ask the very helpful chap who made the LNWR brake van to make me a plain wagon body of the kind I use for my 'litho' type models and place it on one of his exquisite pre-grouping wagon underframes, but I really don't want to be bothering him with too many cries for assistance.  My methods are very 'retro' as nearly all of the latest generation models for trains are fully 3D modelled and don't need to use my old school texture tricks to suggest depth and structure.  But the thing is I like working this way and I don't need to be a 3D modeller to do it.  And what's more they look good, - or at least I think so. - and I like making them.

 

I'm going to do another 9 ton number variation of this wagon and then I think that will do.  I'll upload it to Auran's Download Station and Trainz folk can make up their own minds as to whether or not to run a proper 9 tonner or an upgraded 10 tonner that has an uncertain provenance on their train sets.

 

 

It's quite funny at the moment because the main goods yard on Valleyfields, - my GCR layout, - is stuffed full of goods vans and wagons of my own devising from several pre-grouping railways and there's hardly a GCR van or open wagon to be seen.

 

I don't suppose you can lengthen those buffer guides?

[Annie]

Yes I think I can James.  I'm fairly sure that amongst the kit of RCH wagon parts I have there is a longer type of buffer with a longer guide.  If I can get them to fit Ok I think it will be a definite improvement.  I had a look at the steel underframe meshes available and most of them are older models from TS2004 and are frankly........ terrible.  So no GER wagons with steel underframes are going to get built.  Same goes for  7 plank GER wagons since there seems to be no such thing as a GER  7 plank wagon that was built on a wooden underframe.

[Annie]

Frowning over old pre-group wagon photos and fighting magical incantation scripting files got to be a bit tedious.  So I started up the simulator and visited Valleyfields.  A while ago I posted a picture of the beginnings of the GER tramway branch at the delightfully named town of Bluebell Woods.  As you can see there is a wharf which gives me an excuse to run my fish vans, but not really a lot more as the line terminated a bit further on at a pair of buffer stops.

 

The main point of this branch is so I can run my GER tram engines, - which is a good excuse as any.

 

 

 

So anyway I thought a tramway station on the mainstreet next to the GCR station would be a good idea.  There's still a little more to do here, but you should get the general idea of what I'm about.

 

 

After a bit of track laying work and other messings about the line now skirts the edge of the beach and the dusty narrow dirt road I also put in at the same time, running mostly parallel to the GCR double track mainline for about a scale mile and a half and eventually reaches here.........

 

 

 

I haven't thought of a name for the station yet.  There is a smallish town here which is out of sight in the pictures and largely hidden by trees and I always thought it really odd that there wasn't so much as a halt provided for it on the original TS2004 Valleyfields layout that I downloaded from the DLS.  The town needs a lot of work to bring it up to my ideas of what a town should look like.  Since it was mostly a background piece screened from the railway by trees I can understand its lack of detailing, but there's other things I'll change as well such as some of the houses that are well out of the layout's time period.

 

After leaving the beachside station behind the line continues to follow the coast and ends in a portal track at the edge of the layout.  The portal represents the rest of the line and I see this as being a very rural line that serves farming communities somewhere off over the hill.  The beach station is very popular in Summer of course and there's all manner of operational potential with exchanging traffic with the GCR .  As to whether such a line would really exist, - well I don't actually care too much about that and trying to figure out railway maps and landscape geography always makes my head hurt.  It's just a bit of fun and as I said it gives me an excuse to run my GER tram engines and tramway coaches.

[Annie]

I don't suppose you can lengthen those buffer guides?

BOTHER!!!!!!  No I can't change them James.  The buffers are a fixed part of the main body mesh and can't be swapped out.  Once again I'm faced with my inability to do 3D modelling.  My daughter tried to teach me how to use Blender, but having narcolepsy has screwed up my brain giving me all manner of cognitive deficits so I just plain couldn't do it.  The only reason I can do texture work is that I learned how before I got cursed with this illness and even then it it gets difficult sometimes.

 

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGHH!!!!!!    

Edited October 29, 2018 by Annie

[NeilHB]

Annie, your GER tram engines and tramcars look delightful - thanks for sharing them with us. Really must get on and finish my 7mm scale versions!

[Lancaster622]

I have been playing with this again.

 

This T2 is just so beautiful!

 

 

 

[sem34090]

Definitely did not watch the stream on which those shots were taken!

[Annie]

Latest wagons by me.  D53 4 plank 8 ton coal traffic wagons with the usual limitations on accuracy I've come to accept due to having to work with a wagon mesh and underframe mesh parts that aren't really correct.  They do look the part though and that's the main thing.  These two wagons pretty much complete the series of LNWR open wagons I wanted to make for Valleyfields

 

 

I've been doing more work on the GER tramway line and having a lot of fun doing it too.  I dusted off a little Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0 to help out on the tramway.  It's quite small, barely Terrier size, but it should do fine.

 

 

And here's a rake of glorious pretenders.  These are not my work by the way.  Rob Dee on the Auran forums has a rare skill with reskinning coaches and he transformed several unsuspecting Midland 6 wheelers into 'almost' GER 6 wheelers.

 

[Lancaster622]

That Hudswell Clarke on the DLS Annie? it's lovely

[Annie]

Sorry, - you have to buy the Potteries Loop Line payware route to get it Lancaster.  It's not available on the DLS.

[sem34090]

I hereby plug Mr Lancaster622's train sim streams, given I am sometimes the only viewer!

https://youtu.be/A6S3OLazoaY

Every night... it'd be good to see a few more of you.

[Annie]

The internet here has been too flakey lately for live streaming unfortunately.  Cool video and thanks for sharing it Sem.

[sem34090]

Despite his liking of A4's...

 

Mr Lancaster likes his pre grouping machines!

[Edwardian]

BOTHER!!!!!!  No I can't change them James.  The buffers are a fixed part of the main body mesh and can't be swapped out.  Once again I'm faced with my inability to do 3D modelling.  My daughter tried to teach me how to use Blender, but having narcolepsy has screwed up my brain giving me all manner of cognitive deficits so I just plain couldn't do it.  The only reason I can do texture work is that I learned how before I got cursed with this illness and even then it it gets difficult sometimes.

 

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGHH!!!!!!    

 

The art of compromise!

 

You have to live with what you're given.  We've mentioned the axleboxes. The brake lever guard, for instance, on your underframe does not align with that on the prototype. You can see a little stub on the solebar to the right of the brake lever ratchet/guard.  The feature is clearly derived from the photograph on which the skin is evidently based.  If you then look at the original photograph, you can see that this sub is the top f the brake lever ratchet/guard.

 

The buffers on the pre-diagram 4-planks were short, and had to have packing blocks.  The 5-plank body (Dia.16) that you have, and the steel frame version (Dia 17) had longer buffer guides that avoided the packing.  

 

When you come down to it, like RTR and some kits, you are left with the 'tooling' that was made and having to overlook certain details that few would notice at normal viewing distance!

 

For instance, I run RCH 1907 wagons in 1905, on the basis that the RCH standard was reflective of the standard already being adopted, and I use Cambrian Kits, which give you Gloucester underframes on all the POs regardless of the manufacturer!