Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Compound2632]

Right, found it. My book is a collection of Rous-Marten's Railway Magazine articles, edited by Charles Fryer and published by Patrick Stephens Ltd in 1990. In October 1902, he wrote an article describing the new Johnson compounds, noting their affinity with the Worsdell No. 1619 - W.M. Smith does not get a look in.

 

There he states that No. 2631, the Leeds-based engine, was working the 10:06am from Leeds and returning with the 3:55pm Glasgow Diner. The down train, originating at Leeds, had portions for Barrow, Glasgow, and Perth. It divided at Skipton and at Hellifield the two Scottish portions added carriages from Liverpool and Manchester and the Edinburgh train shed the Barrow carriages. It's unclear which half No. 2631 worked but the Edinburgh portion was van / compo / third (Leeds-Perth) / compo (Liverpool-Perth) / compo (Manchester Perth) - all M&NB 50 ft carriages per previous post) / Midland van, probably D530 (Manchester-Perth); load given as equal to 8.5 or about 130 tons tare. The Glasgow portion was a heavier proposition, so perhaps what the Compound took: brake compo / compo (Manchester-Glasgow) / van / 2 compos (Liverpool-Glasgow) / 2 compos / third / van (Leeds-Glasgow), all M&GSW 50 ft carriages apart from the vans, which were 6 wheelers, and the brake compo, a Midland 48 ft lavatory non-corridor carriage. This was equal to 12.5, about 200 tons tare.

 

The return train was the 1.30pm from Glasgow. The formation of this had changed slightly from the photo in my previous post, being now all M&GSW bogie vehicles: van / third / third dining / first dining / compo / brake compo, equal to 11 (the diners being counted as equal to 2.5), about 170 tons tare.

 

In November 1903, Rous-Marten wrote a 'performance' article. This is not reproduced complete, so I rely on Nock's Speed Records on Britain's Railways for the  the information that the engine that attained 92 mph - 'several successive quarter-miles' in 9.8 seconds; one could wish he'd timed half-miles or even miles - was No. 2632. The train was the 11.50am from Carlisle to Leeds, about 240 tons, he says. In the Summer 1902 marshalling book, this was the 11.55am from Edinburgh and Glasgow to London: Midland slip compo brake (Edinburgh-Bristol) / brake compo / compo (Edinburgh-London, M&NB stock) / brake compo / dining compo / 12-wheel third kitchen diner / third / 6-wheel van (Glasgow-London, all M&GSW stock except the third diner), equal to 12, about 200 tons tare. The formation may have changed by the summer of 1903, or Rous-Marten may have been allowing 40 tons for passengers, luggage, and dinners.

 

He also mentions another run from Hellifield to Carlisle with an afternoon express of 250 tons, in which 88 mph was attained coming down from Aisgill. This was probably the 1.30pm from London, the opposite of the 1.30pm from Glasgow described above, with a pair of 1893 diners and with the addition of a M&NB brake compo for Edinburgh, equal to 12.5, about 200 tons tare, according to the 1902 marshalling book.

 

The 92 mph descending from Ribblehead is, I think, the highest speed for which Rous-Marten gives details prior to City of Truro's 100 mph in April 1904; he says it beats the 90.3 mph he got on the Nord with a de Ghlen Atlantic (another compound!) but he alludes to single quarter-miles at 90 mph and 91.8 mph (i.e. 10 seconds and 9.8 seconds on his stopwatch, which had a resolution of 0.2 seconds) with a L&Y Aspinall Atlantic. Elsewhere he alludes to getting 96 mph with a GW Atbara and a Midland Johnson Belpaire, but he gives no details. 

Edited April 27 by Compound2632

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Right, found it. My book is a collection of Rous-Marten's Railway Magazine articles, edited by Charles Fryer and published by Patrick Stephens Ltd in 1990.

Thank you very much Stephen for hunting out this information for me.  I'll have a go at assembling the ex-Leeds Glasgow train as I think I've got sufficient Midland carriage types to put it together if I sub Midland carriages for the Joint stock.

 

I could do the trains with dining carriages, but I'd have to sub the LMS 1925 P1 dining carriages for the Midland or Joint Stock dining carriages. 

One good thing about Trainz is that it does give the train weights fairly accurately and the physics characteristics for the carriages should be reasonably accurate as well.

[Annie]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm looking for my book of Rous-Marten articles. Meanwhile, here's a taster: posed photos, in Wye Dale in the Peak District, of the new corridor trains of 1899 for the afternoon Scotch expresses. These represent the extremes of the weight range.

 

Glasgow express, made up of M&GSW Joint Stock: 31 ft passenger van number 203 (Lot 454, D568 - the corridor version of D530); 50 ft corridor third class number 203 (Lot 449, D564); 60 ft third class dining carriage number 1 (Lot 310); 60 ft first class dining carriage number 62 (Lot 365); 50 ft composite corridor carriage (Lot 450, D565); 31 ft passenger van (Lot 454, D568). The 12-wheel dining carriages are those built for the introduction of dining services on the London-Glasgow trains in 1893, modified with gangways to connect with the rest of the train. They remained on this duty until 1921. Note that the passenger brake vans were originally built with gangways at one end only; this was soon changed!

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 64393.]

 

Edinburgh express, made up of M&NB Joint Stock: 31 ft passenger brake van (Lot 454, D568) and 50 ft luggage composite (Lot 451, D468) (Bristol to Edinburgh); 50 ft brake composite (Lot 452, D566), 50 ft brake third (Lot 449, D564) and bogie dining carriage (Lot 440, D563) (London to Edinburgh); 50 ft luggage composite (Liverpool to Edinburgh); 50 ft luggage composite (Manchester to Edinburgh); 50 ft luggage composite, 50 ft luggage composite (all four Lot 451, D468) and 50 ft passenger brake van (Lot 453, D567) (London to Aberdeen).

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC 64394.]

Oops, I almost missed this.  Again some very useful information and thanks very much for searching it out for me.

[Annie]

I've had some days of being sleepy and not so well so I haven't been doing much.  When I felt a bit better I had a rat around and found this fairly basic MR '1400' Class model that I'd got half way through fixing the textures on and perhaps over the next couple of days I'll get it finished off.

 

 

(Public domain image)

Edited May 2 by Annie
added a picture

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, Annie said:

this fairly basic MR '1400' Class model 

 

Note the difference in splasher shape - the section between the wheel arches is flat on the model and curved in the photo. As built around 1880 they had the flat style but this was changed, probably on first re-boilering, to the curved style. In the case of No. 1400, around 1890-1892 - there are coal rails on the tender but no MR initials.

[Annie]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Note the difference in splasher shape - the section between the wheel arches is flat on the model and curved in the photo. As built around 1880 they had the flat style but this was changed, probably on first re-boilering, to the curved style. In the case of No. 1400, around 1890-1892 - there are coal rails on the tender but no MR initials.

After finding that photo and doing a little more research I was starting to come to the same conclusions Stephen.  I've got an engine in as built condition and the tender needs some sorting out with its lining if it's at all possible to do it.

 

As compared with Ed Heaps's beautiful  Johnson-Smith Compound it's a very basic model, but with so few Midland engines having been created for Trainz I don't mind seeing if I can polish it up a bit.

[Annie]

I think you might have seen this MR engine before.  A friend commissioned this Midland 2F last year and I was able to buy a copy of it from Paulz Trainz.  It's had a wee bit of fettling  and it's a really nice runner.  I have LMS and BR rebuilt versions as well, but they don't come out of my digital trainset box quite so often.

 

[Annie]

Late Evening Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  Not really a cheer up picture in some ways as this photo of the 'Dutchman' express was taken at Twyford on Saturday 14th of May 1892.  Though in other ways it is a cheer up picture because the Rev Malan put a good deal of his spare time into photographing the last days of the Broad Gauge until that fateful day on the 20th of May.  The Rev Malan estimated that the 'Dutchman' was doing 60 mph when he took this photo.  Photo courtesy of the Broad Gauge Society.

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

Twyford on Saturday 14th of May 1892.  

 

Interesting to see that although the trailing crossover between the running lines is a true mixed-gauge side-swapping mind-boggler, the down side siding has separate broad and standard gauge crossovers. Unfortunately the earliest editions of the OS 25" map on the NLS website are post-quadrupling but from the position of the loading gauge, one infers that there was a standard gauge-only wharf below the camera and the broad gauge siding is (by this time) only a short lie-bye, if in use at all.

 

Which does beg the question, what was Malan standing on to get this elevated view?

 

Edit: I am confused by this photo:

 

 

which shows a bit more of the same mixed-gauge siding. But it also shows work well-advanced on the extension of the Waltham Road bridge in preparation for the quadrupling. This implies that the date of 14 May 1892 for Malan's photo of the Dutchman must be wrong.

Edited yesterday at 11:52 by Compound2632

[Annie]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Edit: I am confused by this photo:

A slightly better photo from of all places a French website.  The only other trackplan I know of for Twyford is a fragmentary one from 1845 which isn't a lot of use unfortunately.  I am confused as well, - I shall go and ask questions of the elect of the Broad Gauge Society.

 

EDIT:  It is known that the Rev Malan was at Twyford on Saturday 14th of May 1892, but it's very likely that the photo I posted earlier was taken at an earlier time.  As to what he was standing on it's anyone's guess without the add of a decent map.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Annie
more to say

[Annie]

Twyford 1875 OS map 6 inch to the mile.  19th century 6 inch maps are much better quality than the 20th century 6 inch maps.

The map shows a footbridge so that is more than likely where the Rev Malan was standing.

 

[Annie]

Breakfast Time GER Cheer Up Picture:  Rebuilt 'W' Class 4-2-2  designed by Robert Sinclair.  31 2-2-2 locomotives were built by various makers between 1862 and 1867.

Two were rebuilt in 1873 as 4-2-2.

 

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Annie said:

Two were rebuilt in 1873 as 4-2-2.

 

By you-know-who!

 

[Annie]

30 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

By you-know-who!

He did a good job of it too.

[Northroader]

You’d have thought with that knowhow behind him he would have built the “Spinners” with outside cylinders, and produced a really decent looking engine?

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Northroader said:

You’d have thought with that knowhow behind him he would have built the “Spinners” with outside cylinders, and produced a really decent looking engine?

 

I am having difficulty parsing this sentence - the conjunction 'and' appears to be out of place.

 

From an engineering rather than a grammatical stand-point, there are sound reasons for using inside cylinders on a single or four-coupled express passenger engine, as I'm sure you know. One thing one can note about that GER 4-2-2 is that the cylinders are quite steeply inclined. 

[Northroader]

Edited 7 hours ago by Northroader

[Compound2632]

Bet they all waggled like a duck.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Bet they all waggled like a duck.

I was somewhat at a loss to decide which comment icon to use, but  I can confess that I'm struggling not to smile.

 

I would point out though that when the GER built their later single driver locomotives that they were all inside cylinder jobs.

Edited 2 hours ago by Annie
More words needed.