Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

From the little bit of research I've done Charlie it seems that even the experts can't agree about what was painted in which colour and when.  Mostly I run a kind of transition layout with both older and newer colour schemes together.  Wagon colours didn't magically change overnight with everything in the new colours as the sun rose and some wagons would have been running in the old colours for some years after the the new liveries were announced.

I did quite a bit with a GER layout before starting this one and I know from my research then that there were still wagons in the old lettering style and paint scheme running around ten years or more after the new scheme was announced.  I would imagine that the GWR wouldn't be any different.

[Edwardian]

47 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

 

For some reason I always think of the tadpoles with guards van as being brown, maybe I saw one painted brown once and it's stuck. Colour in general is a bit of a minefield, and I'm not looking forward to getting to that point.

 

I must confess, I had not considered this.  But many 'Brown Vehicles' were grey until after WW1.  Must look it up.

[drduncan]

Yes brown vehicles were grey before WW1, but before 1904 (probably but could be as early as 1892) the year is uncertain) grey vehicles were red...

DrDuncan

[Compound2632]

Pardon me for being picky but shouldn't the track over the timber viaduct be baulk road?

 

BTW re the "broad gauge" rail on ebay, if it's a single rail there's no proof of gauge!

[Annie]

Being a bad girl again running a De Glehn compound in Cornwall.  And yes I know the coaches are a total anachronism being Broad Gauge ones the GWR fitted with standard gauge bogies after the 1892 gauge conversion.  There is a reason for this madness as this is the latest version and much extended version of the layout I'm back dating to 1880.  As you can see the layout builder had learned a thing or two by the time he was building the line to Penzance.

Unfortunately Truro and Falmouth remain the same with all the same errors and far too many trees.  The only change being that the tree models have been upgraded to the latest type.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Compound2632]

Not quite sure about that viaduct abutment there?

[Annie]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Pardon me for being picky but shouldn't the track over the timber viaduct be baulk road?

 

BTW re the "broad gauge" rail on ebay, if it's a single rail there's no proof of gauge!

The chap who made the Brunel viaducts was an American who'd made a lot of American timber bridges and it looks like he adapted one of the bridge decks from his American models.  I did wonder about that once I started levelling out the viaduct so I could re-attach the two truncated halves of the Falmouth branch.  I may be able to simply lay baulk road track over the top of the rail that's on the viaduct which would definitely improve things.

 

That's a valid point about that rail.  Perhaps it's a surviving part of the hitherto unknown Brunel monorail experiment  

[Annie]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Not quite sure about that viaduct abutment there?

Now you mention it........

 

Everybody seems to have taken photos of the middle of Brunel's viaducts and not the ends, but fortunately here's Pendon to the rescue.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/oxfordshirechurches/10958498665/

 

Oh this is all very annoying, but then I suppose if I'm attempting something I haven't done before I'm going to make mistakes.  At least I have the Moorswater viaduct model as a backup and I can have a go at fitting that in place instead, - AFTER I've deleted those incorrect viaducts from my hard drive!  

[Northroader]

On the subject of wagon colours, here’s my take. Sources suggest that the pigment that gave what we might know as a signal red was quite expensive in Victorian times, so a “red lead” colour was more likely?

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

Now you mention it........

 

Everybody seems to have taken photos of the middle of Brunel's viaducts and not the ends, but fortunately here's Pendon to the rescue.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/oxfordshirechurches/10958498665/

 

It was the last picture, the Wharncliffesque stone arched viaduct, to which I was referring, where one arch ends abruptly mid-span in the abutment.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Compound2632

[Annie]

Too late now since I've deleted that timber viaduct and trial fitted the Moorswater one in place instead.  At least if I use the Moorswater model I can make the viaduct the correct length and have baulk road track.  It's all going to be a right fiddle and a bit of messing about to adjust the landscape, but I'm a lot happier with the appearance of the Moorswater viaduct over that other one..

 

Yes I agree about that stone arch.  The bridge is most probably a spline model which can be adjusted for length, but they can still be pigs to fit properly.  He should have adjusted the embankment back until it cleared the arch.

[Annie]

38 minutes ago, Northroader said:

On the subject of wagon colours, here’s my take. Sources suggest that the pigment that gave what we might know as a signal red was quite expensive in Victorian times, so a “red lead” colour was more likely?

Yes I agree.  A lot of my wagons are a faded light red colour which I find more believable than a bright shade of red.  Some wagons I had that were a vivid red that was just plain too bright have had their textures faded back into something more plausible.  I do like that old model.  The GWR's early experiments with iron bodied wagons have always held an interest for me. 

[sem34090]

If you pardon my intrusion (I really am frightfully selfish! )... A few shots of my own latest train sim-ing activities - Trialling the new custom assets for my (Well, it's actually very much a team effort that I merely initiated!) still-unstarted (in most ways) WW1 ROD route.

These assets were made by Pierre Gauriat and may be downloaded from his site, here - http://ajrailsim.free.fr/guerre14-18.htm

Appropriate French rolling stock may be found here - http://ajrailsim.free.fr/modeles.htm

[Edwardian]

3 hours ago, drduncan said:

Yes brown vehicles were grey before WW1, but before 1904 (probably but could be as early as 1892) the year is uncertain) grey vehicles were red...

DrDuncan

 

I feel the point is moot.  Older works will date the change at some point in the '90s, perhaps as late as '96' or '98.  The more modern view is to assume red went right up to the change to large letters in 1904, but the evidence is far from definitive.

 

The "grey area " (or, perhaps, "red area") are those wagons built around the turn of the century; out-shopped in grey or red?  I suspect it is impossible to be sure, which places the cast plate era new-builds in a problem area for me.  Could be either, but probably not both. 

 

7 minutes ago, sem34090 said:

If you pardon my intrusion (I really am frightfully selfish! )... A few shots of my own latest train sim-ing activities - Trialling the new custom assets for my (Well, it's actually very much a team effort that I merely initiated!) still-unstarted (in most ways) WW1 ROD route.

These assets were made by Pierre Gauriat and may be downloaded from his site, here - http://ajrailsim.free.fr/guerre14-18.htm

Appropriate French rolling stock may be found here - http://ajrailsim.free.fr/modeles.htm

 

The Camels are Coming!!!!

[Annie]

Nice work Sem.  Seeing the Fokker Triplane reminds me that I've got a flight sim with several nice early aircraft I haven't played for ages.

 

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I feel the point is moot.  Older works will date the change at some point in the '90s, perhaps as late as '96' or '98.  The more modern view is to assume red went right up to the change to large letters in 1904, but the evidence is far from definitive.

 

The "grey area " (or, perhaps, "red area") are those wagons built around the turn of the century; out-shopped in grey or red?  I suspect it is impossible to be sure, which places the cast plate era new-builds in a problem area for me.  Could be either, but probably not both. 

 

 

Well at least I know that red is suitable for all occasions James.  Though the rumour that brake vans became grey during the final decade or so of the Broad Gauge era is yet another patch of uncertainty.

[Annie]

We might have been entirely at cross purposes over which viaduct we were discussing Compound, but it has resulted in this.

 

 

A much much better result in my opinion.  The viaduct is now the correct length and while it is a class 'D' viaduct instead of a class 'A' viaduct at least Steve Flanders who made it did his research properly.

[Annie]

Testing.  And the new viaduct at Penwithers is Sharpie No.9 approved.

 

 

Onwards to the tunnel at Little Sparnick and then it's the lineside fire hazard all the way to the Carnon viaduct and Perranwell.

 

 

Carnon viaduct.  Unfortunately the NLS only has the 1906 OS map for this area.  There was an 1880's OS map, but they don't have a copy.  Not a lot would have changed though since this was a very rural area back then and most of it is open countryside.  The map and also a couple of period photos I found very clearly show that the river valley the Carnon viaduct crosses was not full of trees.  A few scrubby down on their luck shrubs and some grass and weeds seems to have been about the size of it.

I'm planning on doing a representation of the Redruth & Chacewater Railway line that ran through the valley under the viaduct.  The OS map clearly shows it so I might as well give it a go.

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

Wow, Annie, great work on the viaduct.

[Annie]

Thank you very much James.  Re-doing it all again was a lot of work, but it was really worth it because Steve Flander's viaduct just looks so much better.

 

Bad girl Annie has been at it again with making Broad Gauge testing engines.  There is a good reason for building this engine ( apart from me liking single driver tank engines that is )  Those 4 wheel bogies fitted fore and aft are superbly articulated and if there's any trackwork misalignment the bogies will pick up on it like mobile spirit levels.  And anyway Churchward built a narrow standard gauge one as an experiment, but I think my one works better than his did.

 

 

Prometheus sulks at the upstart newcomer taking his train.

 

 

 

I went ahead and deleted the rest of the layout past Chacewater like I said I was going to.  The towns at Redruth and Camborne are huge and there's a large amount of industry as well.  The town at Redruth was very well modelled, but the goods yard was entirely missing and so the list went on with things that would have to be fixed.  That's far more than I want to take on so it was best to get rid of it.

If I can sort out the Falmouth branch and take it back to 1880 I'll be happy and fixing the line to Chacewater won't be too horrible.  The station at Chacewater will need to be entirely replaced and everything redone, but it's only a small country station and they can be a lot of fun to build and detail.

 

 

Arrival at Chacewater with a list of track blackspots needing to be fixed clutched in the driver's hand.

Some of the way Chacewater station has been put together is just plain odd, - never mind that the station building is all wrong and the platform shelter is missing.  I have realigned all the sidings and pointwork though and  the line is now actually signalled in a plausible way that works.  The portal representing the line to Penzance has been set up around a curve in the track and out of sight so a passenger train service of a kind can be run and pickup goods trains are also now very possible between Truro and Chacewater.

 

 

While looking around Chacewater I found the town off well away from the station as in best country station tradition.  The thing is though there was so many trees that I could only see the town when I was right up close to it.  It's a nice looking town too, - so why was it hidden away like that?  Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Steam engine enthusiast folk will know what I mean by 'stack talk'; - the almost verbal sounds a steam engine will make while its working.  The new No.5 chants, 'let's....go....so....fast, when drawing away from the station platform and one of my small tank engines on Hopewood would chant, 'Come..and..get...you,' while shunting which hopefully made any naughty wagons thinking of being rebellious come to their senses.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Annie
fumble brain

[Annie]

Much prefer the 1880s six bob 25inch to the mile OS maps, - this two and six penny 1906 OS map is a sad looking thing.  The 19th century maps show much more detail than the 20th century maps so it's annoying not to be able to study the 1880s map.  Unfortunately the NLS don't have a copy of the 1880s OS map which is disappointing (sigh).

Carnon viaduct 1906.

 

No.9 on a passenger service to Falmouth passes over the place where several hundred trees died of sudden onset disappearing disease.

 

Still lots more to do here and several more hundred trees have yet to go.

 

Carnon viaduct as it was.

 

 

Carnon viaduct in process of replacement.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Annie
added picture and said more

[Annie]

This is the 1888 6 inch to the mile series map, - which actually shows far more detail than the 1906 25 inch to the mile 1906 map.  Is this an example of the trend towards budget cuts and general penny pinching that infested the 20th century mindset.  More than likely in my opinion.

 

[Annie]

I got sick and tired of deleting trees so I did something else.

 

I've always disliked how Perranwell station was represented on the original TS2012 layout.

 

Soooooo I did something about it..........

 

 

Basically this is a placeholder representation that can do the job until I look at working on Perranwell properly, but at least it looks more plausible as a station on the Cornwall Railway.  I'm going to be making a better signalbox for Perranwell in case you were wondering.  What is there is just plain terrible.

 

 

[Northroader]

The Perranwell signal box formed an attractive feature on Maristow, a 7mm GWR layout.

https://wiganfrmexhibitionphotography.weebly.com/maristow.html

[sem34090]

One element of the TS (DTG) rendition of the branch that they did get get right then!

[Annie]

1 hour ago, sem34090 said:

One element of the TS (DTG) rendition of the branch that they did get get right then!

Having driven that pannier tank engine on DTG's version of the Falmouth branch a couple of times yes I can confirm that is so Sem.  Otherwise I found parts of it all a bit odd.

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

The Perranwell signal box formed an attractive feature on Maristow, a 7mm GWR layout.

https://wiganfrmexhibitionphotography.weebly.com/maristow.html

That's a really nice model, thanks for posting the link Northroader.

 

One of the members of the creator group I belong to came up with a new method of ballasting track just in time for me to test it out at Truro.