JUBILEES IN AND AROUND DERBY 1958 – 1964

[ngtrains.com]

I would welcome some help picking a Jubilee that I could have seen in Derby in the period 1958 -1964. I would prefer it to be one that was working service trains or is at least `used’ in its appearance rather than one that’s just come out of the works after overhaul.

 

Background

 

Having decided not to take my trade stand to The Gauge 0 Guild event in Kettering due to the weather I have been using the time to ponder a future modelling project to build a Jubilee in 7mm scale.

This is likely to result in me reserving a David Andrews kit for one which imposes the decision long or short firebox. To answer that I guess I need to pick a loco.

 

I have been contemplating the masses of information in this book in the tiled reading room and my mind is boggled so I am hopeful the RM Wed masses can add some clarity and, hopefully, point me to a picture or pictures. A selection would be preferable allowing the addition of being able to choose the namer as there were some weird ones amongst the stirring/imposing ones (a friend and ex boss has Bhopal’s nameplate. At least it wasn’t controversial when he acquired it)

 

As a lad brought up in Derby (in the post steam era by the time I was paying attention) my 7mm loco fleet is based on the lose premise that I could have seen it had I been train spotting at Derby Midland in the period 1958 -1964.  Doesn't have to be a Derby based engine as I expect the Leeds, Sheffield, Burton, Birmingham and Bristol based engines would have worked through

 

My preference is for engines that worked through there on regular occasions, but tenuous links are sometimes allowed, my Clan is Clan MacGregor as the only one that passed through, but I vetoed a Class 15 diesel on the grounds that the only ones I saw were the train heat examples that were on the research centre. (From observing that when it was started up I’d have to strip out the motors and add extra smoke units)

[77philg]

PM Sent   another book which I think has a lot of pics and where the classes were shedded is "The power of the jubilees " which is available on amazon phil

[ngtrains.com]

Phil,

 

Many thanks for the list. The Burton one would be appreciated as well please.

 

I think I am going to have put pen to paper (cursor to spreadsheet?) to collate the names, shed, dates, boiler and tender.  I have ordered the book you suggested. The book I have has loads of information in it with pages and pages of tables to the extent it’s a bit mind boggling.

 

As I don’t know the names and numbers off by heart I am forever flicking back and forth between tables trying to keep track

[asmay2002]

If you're on facebook take a look at "Derbyshire railways remembered" which has quite a few Jubilee photos from that era  https://www.facebook.com/groups/derbysrailwaysremembered/search/?query=jubilee

 

Alternatively look at the allocations for Derby, Kentish Town and Trafford Park (at the very least) on the BR database.

Edited March 3, 2018 by asmay2002

[cb900f]

If you're on facebook take a look at "Derbyshire railways remembered" whci has quite a few Jubilee photos from that era  https://www.facebook.com/groups/derbysrailwaysremembered/search/?query=jubilee

 

Alternatively look at the allocations for Derby, Kentish Town and Trafford Park (at the very least) on the BR database.

 I would imagine Nottingham too.

 

Pete

Edited March 3, 2018 by cb900f

[LMS2968]

...and Bristol. And possibly Upperby.

[Pobrien]

A selection of Jubilee photos, mainly in the Bristol area in the 1962-64 period.

 

 

They would have been allocated to Bristol Barrow Road, Saltley, Burton, Derby, Leeds.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/albums/72157626776473732

[ngtrains.com]

Oh Boy!

I am on the Facebook Group "Derbyshire Railways Remembered" and have seen pictures as they are posted but I have never sat down and scrolled through them all - where on earth did the last two hours go!

Scrolling through that lot has made me realise making a selection based on shed allocation is possibly not the right way to go. Given Derby's location it would see Midland Mainline and North East South West Jubilees much as it did with Peaks in my spotting days.

 

So far on the basis of scrolling through Derbyshire Railways Remembered I am currently disposed towards 45579 Punjab as there are two decent pictures of it at Derby.

It's sheds were

07/09/52  Kentish Town

16/11/59  Derby

27/02/61  Saltley

13/11/61  Burton

17/06/63  Derby

so a prime candidate for passing through Derby

 

Both the pictures I have are of the right hand side. One is clearer than the other.

 

How many more pictures of Punjab can we find and is there and one of the other side? I did a Google search and thought I'd found a cracker (but of the same side) as the caption said it was Punjab at Derby Midland - The Stafford station sign was the first clue this might not be right and a closer look revealed it to be 45688 Polyphemus.  Can you do better?

 

As the evening has disappeard sat at the computer its time now for a brew and thumb through my book looking for Punjab

[pH]

A Google 'images' search for "jubilee 45579" will get you about a dozen pictures of 'Punjab', including the one you've posted - both sides, varying quality.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Good chioce Paul. I was going to suggest PUNJAB myself as it seemed to be there a lot of the time in the early 1960s when I was serving my time at the Loco Works. I like the photo you have posted above showing PUNJAB on the ex- North Stafford shed (where the power box now stands) and a 47 in primer on 4 Shed.

 

Richard

 

p.s. Other common ones were SASKATCHEWAN and JAMAICA.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Poor Old Bruce

[Ramrig]

Paul

 

Might be worth a pm to Poor old Bruce of this area. He will have good knowledge of Jubilees through Derby at the times you are talking and probably photographs as well

 

Steve

 

Edit he beat me to it

Edited March 4, 2018 by Ramrig

[Poor Old Bruce]

Paul

 

Might be worth a pm to Poor old Bruce of this area. He will have good knowledge of Jubilees through Derby at the times you are talking and probably photographs as well

 

Steve

 

Edit he beat me to it

 

Not many photos, we didn't have pocket size digital camers in those days.

[ngtrains.com]

Thanks for all the info.

 

Its looking like 45579 Punjab then.

I plan to order a kit from David Andrews's forthcoming run of Jubilee kits to be available later in the year and will do it as Punjab unless someone tells me something like the kits doesn't do North British/that boiler/that tender combination. It will, almost inevitably, go in the roundtoit kit pile but these days I am doing less models for others and a few more for me. This is one of those strategic get it will you can purchases

 

My favourite LMS engines are the Jubilees. I have no memory of them in service of them being too young (only just). We moved from Collingham to Derby in September 1964 when I was 4 years and 4 months old and as Punjab was withdraw in August 64 it was gone before I got there. I think the thing that makes me like them as a favourite is one of those pictures your mind captures and then retains. In about 1977 (bit of a guess) Derby Railway Engineering Society organised a trip to Dinting and extended an invite to members of Mickleover Model Railway Club to go with them. IIRC correctly my mate, Ian Harper, and I were picked up by the Palm Court Resturant on the A6 Duffield Road (no A38 dual carriageway mining underneath it then) for the trek up the A6. The memory stuck in my mind is of walking up the access road at Dinting and seeing Leander standing on its own and viewed from low down. It was absolutly gleaming with polished tyres, lit by a low wintery sun. It looked stunning and that stuck in my 17 year old mind. I took a picture of course but with the camera/abilty of the time its doesn't do the picture in my mind justice.

 

So why am I not modelling Leander? Well, in our time frame it was a Bristol based engine so would likely as not turned up in Derby but for some reason I can't fully explain modelling a subsequently preserved loco doesn't feel right. The picture of Punjab on shed puts it in the right place at the right time and yes I will model it in that not far off being withdrawn condition. I assume under the gunge it was lined green. You can't really tell from that photo.

 

 

[great central]

I remember Punjab very well but for, perhaps, the wrong reasons.

Around 1963, i went, along with my parents naturally, on a day trip to Llandudno from Nottingham Midland.

We were at the station in plenty of time and stood, along with many others, awaiting the arrival of the empty stock from the carriage sidings.

Eventually, and already late, a Jubilee wheezed into sight and drew along the platform pulling a motley collection of coaching stock.

It's surprising how quickly a train could be loaded in those days, not everyone waiting at one door like they do now, and we were soon on our way.

Progress wasn't particularly rapid and we lost time steadily eventually arriving at Llandudno a lot later than advertised, still with Punjab at the head I believe.

A somewhat shorter day at the seaside followed by a later than planned departure saw us once again losing time steadily all the way home. So much so that the last bus services had long finished.

Credit where it's due though, special bus services had been organised to get us home, that being a time when a rather more integrated transport system could come to the rescue.

Somewhere I still have the spotting book for the day, it was one of the last excursions we did by train, my dad learning to drive shortly after and also about the first time we had used Midland station for anything other than trips to the likes of Derby and Tamworth. It didn't leave a particularly favourable impression, I have to say, compared with the day trips to the east coast from Victoria which always seemed to work pretty well:-)

[ngtrains.com]

BRILLIANT

I love stories like that. Now if it runs poorly when I've built it then I modelled it that day in 63

[pH]

As a (real) aside - earlier in its career, 45579 was an Aberdeen Ferryhill engine, used on Glasgow-Aberdeen 3 hour expresses, long before A4s!

[ngtrains.com]

Well, its decided. Punjab it is.

My David Andrew short firebox kit is reserved.

 

Just as a completely wacky idea is the LMS drawing for Jubilee wheels available?

 

Reading other articles on making wheels and other distractions has made me realise that I have all the ingredients to make my own wheels apart from the source drawing.

I have a big enough lathe to turn tyres and profile tools. I have a CNC mill set up with very high speed small cutters usually used to cut injection moulds in brass and I have SolidWorks 3D CAD. The little extra that tips the balance towards making me fancy having a go is that the 2018 verison of SolidWorks comes with a version of SolidCAM which turns the 3D part model into tool paths and controls the mill. A side project at the moment is getting SolidCAM and the mill on speaking terms. This would be a good project to prove the set up and whilst doing the first wheels will doubtless be a right faff, sorry, i mean learning experience subsequent ones should be a lot easier.   [Yes, I could just by Slaters wheels but then they'd lool like everyone elses and have a hexagonal hole in the end of the axle - I don't do "the easy way"]

[Poor Old Bruce]

I assume under the gunge it was lined green. You can't really tell from that photo.

 

There's a pic of the LHS of 45579 taken in 1961 in Irwell's Book of the Jubilees.

 

MADRAS turned up at 4 Shed one day (Dec 1961 according to the book) and seemed to spend some time (weeks) standing on one of the tracks off the outside 70ft turntable. It was filthy when it arrived but one morning there was a pleasant surprise to see it had been cleaned - nice BR green under the filth. Whoever had done could have done with longer arms or a longer ladder as they couldn't quite reach to the top of the turned-over tender sides.

[Norton961]

There is a U Tube video, Trainspotting at Derby Midland which has some nice shots of Punjab along with some other Jubilees.

 

David

[ngtrains.com]

 

There is a U Tube video, Trainspotting at Derby Midland which has some nice shots of Punjab along with some other Jubilees.

 

That was a very pleasant diversion from what I should be doing at the moment. Two things struck me. First the passenger traffic that came in via Chaddesden Sidings route. By the time I was trainspotting at Derby the Spondon end of that had gone. Secondly, I remember open days before the H&S police when you could climb on stuff