NickC Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Historically I have always done my decoder programming on my programming track using Hornby Railmaster and an eLink. Since I now have a Z21 (black), I though I'd try using it for CV programming instead. Has anybody tried using the new Z21 app's CV Programming on the main (POM) option? POM is something I've not tried before but since I've got some locos with Zimo & Lenz decoders, I thought I'd give it a try. So I made sure that each decoder had CV28=3 and the Railcom bit is set in CV29 and I've activated RailCom in the Z21 settings. I then go to the CV programming option in the App and chose Loco (POM). I then select a loco that is on my layout and has a Railcom enabled decoder installed. The app shows the correct Loco address, thinks about it for a moment and then reports "No locomotive found with this address". This occurs if I chose any of my locos with Railcom enabled decoders. Am I doing something wrong? Or am I missing a trick? Any help or suggestions appreciated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Nick, I use a Z21 and POM using Railcom exclusively on my layout and have had a challenge ensuring that all the components I use are Railcom compatible, there are many on the market that don't transit the Railcom signal and there are others that simply fail when you have Railcom switched on. The answers I have for you are whether you have any occupancy detectors or any other devices between the Z21 and the track as this may be where you issue is? The second suggestion that that you write CV29 using the Z21 to the value you want on the loco (ensuring you have included the value 8 for Railcom and then try reading back. I have noticed that this bit is often switched off by other programs - such as DecoderPro from JMRI. All I can really say is that if you have the Z21 set for Railcom and you have the bit set in the decoder and Railcom compatible devices in between it does work - I even get feedback into iTrain which I use for automation Edited March 26, 2018 by WIMorrison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 I have checked and CV28 & CV29 are definitely correct. The Z21 is connected directly to the Bus which is connected directly to the track, i have no occupancy detector.s or the like as yet. I do have various point decoders connected to the bus so perhaps it is one of those that is not RailCom compatible and is stopping it working? I have a mixture of DCC Concepts Cobalt IP digital, DCC Concepts ADS-2SX, DCC Concepts Cobalt SS and one Hornby R8427 accessory decoder driving some uncouplers. I also have a Hex Frog juicer. I wonder if one of those is the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Can I suggest that you get a couple of feet of track and place the loco on that track with it directly connected to the Z21? Doing this will eliminate any other potential causes and once you get 100% Railcom responses on the test track that you repeat the exercise with the same loco on the main track - if it gives you the Railcom access then problem solved, if not return loco to test track and see if Railcom still works - if it does then it shows that something on your track is killing it, if it doesn’t then try again from the start to completely confirm that something has stopped the Railcom. Let us know how you get on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Thanks, it will probably be a day or two before I can do it. I’ll let you know what I find out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) Well POM is now working. It's not 100% as occasionally the App says it can find a loco, often the one with a TCS chip. So all I have done so far is to remove the 'bus terminator' (or snubber') that I had at the end of my power bus. I installed the 'bus terminator' some time ago after reading that they were a good idea, however it appears that if you want to use Railcom with a Z21, perhaps they aren't! Edited March 30, 2018 by NickC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I have to admit I hadn’t thought about these devices as I have never used. My current busses are around 9m each (one for track and one for accessories) and I have never had an issue therefore haven’t even considered them Glad it sorted out the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 New app out today but it hasn't solved the POM issue for me as I still cant read CVs, I do wonder if it is the feedbacks I am using and f they are stripping out the Railcom onto Loconet as I know Railcom is feedback over Loconet to iTrain. Is it POM working for anyone else now reading and writing the CVs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcwilt Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Hi, "Normal" POM mode has never been able to read back CV values. Has POM been enhanced to support Railcom? Thanks. Frederick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 It always worked for me on the old app, and I used to do it with the Z21 Maint App, but as I can no longer do it with that either I think it is my new feedbacks filtering it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 "Normal" POM mode has never been able to read back CV values. Has POM been enhanced to support Railcom? They are two separate concepts. POM allows you to write to a decoder, Railcom allows you to read a decoder. Use the two together on a system that supports both and you have full read/write POM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcwilt Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 They are two separate concepts. POM allows you to write to a decoder, Railcom allows you to read a decoder. Use the two together on a system that supports both and you have full read/write POM. Hi, Yes that is understood. But when using, say, the Z21 can you simply chose to use POM mode and the Z21 takes care of reading back the values for display without any action on your part? Thanks. Frederick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 You have to tell it to read the values, but in essence you are correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 With the latest Z21 firmware and 1.0.5 and 1.0.6 app I find that read/write POM works reliably with Zimo decoder, less reliably with Lenz decoders and not at all with TCS decoders. All decoders with Railcom enabled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcwilt Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 You have to tell it to read the values, but in essence you are correct Thanks. Frederick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 With the latest Z21 firmware and 1.0.5 and 1.0.6 app I find that read/write POM works reliably with Zimo decoder, less reliably with Lenz decoders and not at all with TCS decoders. All decoders with Railcom enabled Interesting - I only use Lenz decoders and am finding that most of the time I cant read the CVs now but on the original app I could, and also the first couple of versions of the new app worked for me. I wonder what they have done to break it - this may also be the same problem with the Z21 App on the PC as I only noticed the problems after I updated that to the latest version Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Iain, do you still have the original app installed? If so can you still read CVs with it? If you can then it would indicate a bug in the new app, if not then it must be a bug in the Z21 firmware update Nick Edited May 9, 2018 by NickC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 After all this time I have just found out that the Z21 programming track has full track power when not being used as a programming track which I find extremely useful as I can I put a loco on my rolling road blocks on the programming track and leave it running whilst I read and write CVs using the Z21 maintenance programme on the PC. I still can't read CVs in real time through the app though using Railcom though Main thing is that I now have a way to tune the motor on the locos. I use Lenz Silver Mini+ chips and there are several CVs that can be varied and they can make a huge difference to how the motor performs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) I’m afraid one of the drawbacks with railcom is the very spotty support in the decoders even those that are from quality suppliers. Lenz are notorious for issues and they don’t even conform to their own spec at times ( given they invented railcom ) Zimo are by far the most reliable , and tcs seem to give all sorts of issues . I’ve yet to test Lokspund though I hear good things I’ve been working on a MERG compatible railcom decoder , so have been playing with railcom for a while , quite frankly the whole thing is a mess , not helped by the NMRA effectively abandoning it.e Edited June 1, 2018 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Not sure what problems you see with the Lenz decoders and Railcom as I have used it for many years now and never had an issue with it. I cannot read it from the main track because I have occupancy detectors (DR5088RC) which feed the Railcom data through Loconet perfectly giving me the Railcom identification and directional information in iTrain. The only issues I have seen with people and Railcom is when they have disabled it in the decoder then complain it won't work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Not sure what problems you see with the Lenz decoders and Railcom as I have used it for many years now and never had an issue with it. I cannot read it from the main track because I have occupancy detectors (DR5088RC) which feed the Railcom data through Loconet perfectly giving me the Railcom identification and directional information in iTrain. The only issues I have seen with people and Railcom is when they have disabled it in the decoder then complain it won't work! For example they don’t transmit speed data unlike zimo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) For example they don’t transmit speed data unlike zimo That is not a problem or issue, that it simply a matter of function and specification. Stating that Lenz are notorious for issues implies that they are unreliable or don't work which is absolutely not the case. Edited June 1, 2018 by WIMorrison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) That is not a problem or issue, that it simply a matter of function and specification. Stating that Lenz are notorious for issues implies that they are unreliable or don't work which is absolutely not the case. I don’t intend to go into technical detail , but Lenz specified the Channel 2 specs and then their decoders don’t follow the actual specs , these are the issues I alluded to, ( perhaps notorious was a bad use of the term ) My experience has been if you stay inside the Lenz camp you tend to be fine , but in comparing the actual technical performance the Zimo decoders adhere far better to the draft nmra railcom spec then the Lenz do , my experience with TCS suggests it struggles to stay within the power specification for railcom and hence can need very sensitive decoders , this often manifests itself as unreliable communications Edited June 1, 2018 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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