Midland Railway brake vans

[rodent279]

Can anyone either provide me with a list of numbers/number ranges of Midland Railway brake vans, or point me to an online resource, please & thank you?

 

Cheers N

[Poor Old Bruce]

A lot of them were random numbers, using vacant numbers when built. If you give details of which particular type of GBV you are interested in, someone may be able to give you some number as published in the various books on the subject.

[PenrithBeacon]

There were a number of designs, it would be helpful if you said which one you have in mind. Bob Essery's Midland Wagon Volume 2 has them all in.

[rodent279]

There's a question.

 

I'm asking because I have been given an oil hand lamp. I was told that it was a guard's hand lamp, and that it would have been allocated to a brake van. It has a plate stamped Midland Railway, and the number 6556B. I was wondering whether that would be the number of the van it was allocated to.

[Steamport Southport]

They were random numbers and most of them were lowish up to four figures. All prefixed with a M though and numbered separately from the revenue earning wagons, until that practice was discontinued under the LMS.

 

 

 

Jason

[Spitfire2865]

There's a question.

 

I'm asking because I have been given an oil hand lamp. I was told that it was a guard's hand lamp, and that it would have been allocated to a brake van. It has a plate stamped Midland Railway, and the number 6556B. I was wondering whether that would be the number of the van it was allocated to.

I wouldnt think a lamp would be allocated to a specific van.  Much more likely they traveled around to different routes and vans, similar to how a wagon tarpaulin was treated. 

[Compound2632]

And 6556 is far too high a number to be a brake van number. Off hand, I can tell you that there were 1,218 brake vans built between 1880 and 1902 (that's from an analysis of the lot list). Some will have been replacements for older Kirtley vans but that gives you an idea of the possible number range. The highest number recorded in Essery, Midland Wagons Vol 2 (OPC, 1980) is 2046 and that's a bit of an outlier. The majority of known numbers are three digits. 

 

There do not appear to be any surviving records of numbers allocated, so all that are known are from photographs. Beyond that, it's down to making an informed guess, secure in the knowledge that unless someone turns up a previously unknown photo, you can't be proven wrong. 

 

The Midland Railway Study Centre has a number of lamps with similar stamped numbers. Is yours of one of these types? Select "Lamp" from the drop-down menu and click "search".

Edited April 1, 2018 by Compound2632

[jim.snowdon]

I wouldnt think a lamp would be allocated to a specific van.  Much more likely they traveled around to different routes and vans, similar to how a wagon tarpaulin was treated. 

The alternative possibility is that, being a hand lamp rather one of the brake van lamps, it was issued to the guard and went with him as part of his equipment?

 

Jim

[rodent279]

Thanks for that. I'd say mine is almost identical to item no. 10678. I'll post a photo when I've cleared enough space on my phone!

[rodent279]

Here's mine. It's also stamped 3425 on the side of the body.

Edited April 2, 2018 by rodent279

[Compound2632]

These are described as "hand lamps" - looking through the various examples in the Study Centre collection, I get the impression they were for use by platform staff. Brake van lamps were square - see item no. 10700.

[rodent279]

They have a lot of lamps!

 

I guess guards may have been issued with hand lamps similar to the mine though. It certainly produces a decent beam.

[Wickham Green]

These are described as "hand lamps" - looking through the various examples in the Study Centre collection, I get the impression they were for use by platform staff. Brake van lamps were square - see item no. 10700.

Brake van SIDE lamps would be square with a socket on either side and would show a red aspect to the rear and white to the front. A TAIL lamp might not be square and would only show a red light ( some, at least, had a little tell-tale window in the side )  ............... if the lamp in question can show red, white AND green - as I suspect - it's not specifically a brake van type and might be issued to a number of grades who had business on and about the running lines.  

[Compound2632]

Brake van SIDE lamps would be square with a socket on either side and would show a red aspect to the rear and white to the front. A TAIL lamp might not be square and would only show a red light ( some, at least, had a little tell-tale window in the side )  ............... if the lamp in question can show red, white AND green - as I suspect - it's not specifically a brake van type and might be issued to a number of grades who had business on and about the running lines.  

 

As indeed is confirmed by Midland Railway Study Centre item no. 10700 (as mentioned above), which is described as a tail lamp and has no visible side sockets (but is square). From the arrangement of the lamp irons on Midland brake vans, it's evident that side lamps must have had side sockets. Photographs of Midland brake vans displaying lamps in Midland days are hard to come by.

[Wickham Green]

As indeed is confirmed by Midland Railway Study Centre item no. 10700 (as mentioned above), which is described as a tail lamp and has no visible side sockets (but is square). From the arrangement of the lamp irons on Midland brake vans, it's evident that side lamps must have had side sockets. Photographs of Midland brake vans displaying lamps in Midland days are hard to come by.

Indeed - photos of the REAR of trains at any period are close to hen's teeth availability .....