GWR to lease ‘tri-mode’ class 769 multiple units from Porterbrook

[Mike_Walker]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Without checking I thinkl we'll fimnd that agoodly percentage of the money being spent on the railway now is via NR on infrastruture improvements and remedial works/.  many of the latter should have been carried out decades ago but BR was starved of cash to do such things so extra money would have been invaluable there.

 

A good example is Chipping Sodbury Tunnel which always flooded when  it rained heavily.  Eventually, in the late 1980s, BR managed to get a small aqueduct which crosses the railway west of the tunnel raised and taht allowed som improvements in gradient prog fil which helped the tunnel to drain.  But it didn't cure the pron blem.  In NR times a major scheme has provided a greatly improved culvert between the tunnel and the site of Chipping Sodbury station and this culvert feeds into a large catch pond almost a mile from the tunnel.  Flooding problem as solved as it ever will be and heavy rain diversions off the Badminton road are basicallya thing of the past.

 

Similarly numerous long know slip sites that I camn remember as troublesome on the WR have been given major attention and ceased to be a nuisance.  Again money that BR didn't have but could have spent wisely if it did have it.

 

Chipping Sodbury still floods despite NR literally spending millions there and the Badminton lines were shut or reduced to single line (they are bi-directional) for some weeks earlier this year due to flooding and/or landslips.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Mike_Walker
Spelling correction!

[The Stationmaster]

On 14/06/2023 at 12:16, Mike_Walker said:

 

Chipping Sodbury still floods despite NR literally spending millions there and the Badminton lines were shut or reduced to single line (they are bi-directional) for some weeks earlier this year due to flooding and/or landslips.

Definitely landslips still going on down there although they have tackled the two worst spots.  I'm surprised about Sodbury Tunnel as the water should now clear quickly compared with what used to happen. - I wonder if 'they' are being more cautious about permitted depth above railhead level that used to be the case?

[Northmoor]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Definitely landslips still going on down there although they have tackled the two worst spots.  I'm surprised about Sodbury Tunnel as the water should now clear quickly compared with what used to happen. - I wonder if 'they' are being more cautious about permitted depth above railhead level that used to be the case?

It may be a combination of less tolerance and also more extreme weather events, which still overwhelm the new flood alleviation measures.

[billbedford]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

It may be a combination of less tolerance and also more extreme weather events, which still overwhelm the new flood alleviation measures.

 

Extreme weather events? Really?

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, Northmoor said:

It may be a combination of less tolerance and also more extreme weather events, which still overwhelm the new flood alleviation measures.

Could well  be.  

 

I'm not at all up-to date (obviou;sy) on permitted depths of water that things like IETS, especially when using electric traction, are allowed to work through.  But even back in the day diesel hydraulics were far more tolerant of flooding above railheaf level than diesel electrics (hence me on one memorable weekend converting the Salisbury - Exeter line to 100% D10XX haulage due to flooding at Gillingham - which had already reduced one Crompton to expensive immobility).

[Northmoor]

33 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Could well  be.  

 

I'm not at all up-to date (obviou;sy) on permitted depths of water that things like IETS, especially when using electric traction, are allowed to work through.  But even back in the day diesel hydraulics were far more tolerant of flooding above railheaf level than diesel electrics (hence me on one memorable weekend converting the Salisbury - Exeter line to 100% D10XX haulage due to flooding at Gillingham - which had already reduced one Crompton to expensive immobility).

The old BP&GV route into Burry Port was built on the route of a canal and this used to flood at some point every year; there are many published photos of 3x03s hauling coal along submerged tracks on the old route.  One of the reasons why 03s were retained for so long was because their "wading depth" - as 4x4 owners call it - was much greater than the 08s due to replace them.  I assume this was one of the drivers for re-instating the short link to the main line at Kidwelly, which avoided the most at-risk section, allowed a few miles of the line to be closed and withdrawal of a non-standard type (only the cut-down body was non-standard on the 08/9s).

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

The old BP&GV route into Burry Port was built on the route of a canal and this used to flood at some point every year; there are many published photos of 3x03s hauling coal along submerged tracks on the old route.  One of the reasons why 03s were retained for so long was because their "wading depth" - as 4x4 owners call it - was much greater than the 08s due to replace them.  I assume this was one of the drivers for re-instating the short link to the main line at Kidwelly, which avoided the most at-risk section, allowed a few miles of the line to be closed and withdrawal of a non-standard type (only the cut-down body was non-standard on the 08/9s).

I think there was a bit more too it than that because of clearance issues at Gorse Bridge which had a very restricted loading gauge with a Maximum height at track centre of 11ft 6" and even less immediately above each running rail.

 

As far as flooding was concerned the WR Instruction (no doubt applying nationally) was -

 

Normal running to cease when the water is less than 1 inch below the underside of the head of the rail.

Emergency running at a maximum speed of 3MPH permitted as follows -

 

Diesel Electric locos, shunters, and railcars  allowed when the water is no more than 4 inches above the head of the rail

Diesel Hydraulic locos (except D6XX) allowed when the water is no more than 12 inches above the head of the rail

(D6XX restricted to water no more than 3 inches above the head of the rail)

Diesel mechanical shunters and railcars allowed when the water is no more than 6 inches above the head of the rail.

 

So a 204hp shunter was only good for an extra couple of inches of water ompared with a 350hp shunter - but that might have been just enough of course.

[adb968008]

Its not just the 769 that was a waste of money…

The 442’s were a waste, the class 230 was a waste.

Its becoming apparent the HST sliding door conversions will be a waste of money.

Winding down the 91’s mid-life was a waste of money.

class 365 scrapping mid life is another waste of money

Class 456 binned, despite being needed, leaving swr with a stock shortage, and not long after overhaul…indeed the 456 is the solution to off peak demand, and extra capacity at peak.

class 317 overhauled in 2018 binned 2022.

 

 

On the edge of waste is the SWR 455 upgrade designed to give them 10 extra years, but that waste is only avoided by the 4 year waste that is the class 701’s.

 

Lets go on, who is expecting the mid life class 180’s back ?, another waste of money.

 

its all gone and going, but allegedly the passengers are coming back, despite efforts to chase them away.

 

Is this as bad as the 1960’s… yes at least they used the stock before they binned it, were talking over 1500 vehicles binned prematurely, ontop of the 1000+ vehicles suitably binned (pacers, 313,4,5 etc).. BR bought very little in the 1970’s… I suspect here the dft will either need to open its wallet, or take actions to permanently damage railways by shutting stuff down… sadly the statements in the next Control Period suggest closure by stealth maybe the option under consideration, by prioritising repairs on some lines over others.

Edited June 17, 2023 by adb968008

[GMKAT7]

Good morning folks,

Whilst epic amounts of money have been wasted in recent years in/on UK rolling stock it should also be remembered that a lot of good work has been undertaken on making Sprinters compliant with the PRM requirements.

In the case of 158s this included a very cost effective UAT modification, designed by SNC-Lavalin for Porterbrook. The modifications were stated to give another 10 years plus service life i.e. 2025 or beyond.

What would have happened otherwise? All Sprinters in the shredder post_2018?

As Max Boyce said, I know because I was there.E

Best regards,

Nigel.

[Tankerman]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

Its not just the 769 that was a waste of money…

The 442’s were a waste, the class 230 was a waste.

Its becoming apparent the HST sliding door conversions will be a waste of money.

Winding down the 91’s mid-life was a waste of money.

class 365 scrapping mid life is another waste of money

Class 456 binned, despite being needed, leaving swr with a stock shortage, and not long after overhaul…indeed the 456 is the solution to off peak demand, and extra capacity at peak.

class 317 overhauled in 2018 binned 2022.

 

 

On the edge of waste is the SWR 455 upgrade designed to give them 10 extra years, but that waste is only avoided by the 4 year waste that is the class 701’s.

 

Lets go on, who is expecting the mid life class 180’s back ?, another waste of money.

 

its all gone and going, but allegedly the passengers are coming back, despite efforts to chase them away.

 

Is this as bad as the 1960’s… yes at least they used the stock before they binned it, were talking over 1500 vehicles binned prematurely, ontop of the 1000+ vehicles suitably binned (pacers, 313,4,5 etc).. BR bought very little in the 1970’s… I suspect here the dft will either need to open its wallet, or take actions to permanently damage railways by shutting stuff down… sadly the statements in the next Control Period suggest closure by stealth maybe the option under consideration, by prioritising repairs on some lines over others.

 

The DfT is a civil service department so such things are to be expected, just like the MOD who had ships put through expensive refits then sold them very cheaply to foreign navies. The troops who were given the original SA80 to defend themselves in the Gulf War summed up the problem with the name they bestowed on that weapon. They called it the Civil Servant because it didn't work and couldn't be fired.

[adb968008]

The question is what next…

 

Taking 1000 odd vehicles out of the system will create a lot of redundant storage space.

What future Victoria carriage sidings or Stewarts Lane… prime real estate in centre of London ?

tempting to start cashing on this and other locations, such like… Selhurst has a lot of spare space these days and can easilily accomodate… other locations oo.

Edited June 17, 2023 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The question is what next…

 

Taking 1000 odd vehicles out of the system will create a lot of redundant storage space.

What future Victoria carriage sidings or Stewarts Lane… prime real estate in centre of London ?

tempting to start cashing on this and other locations, such like… Selhurst has a lot of spare space these days and can easilily accomodate… other locations oo.

It woudn't be the first time that has happened.   There could be alot of sense when it cane to yard sidings to pull them up if they weren't being sed because that immediately stopped people shoving stuff on them.  

 

When Severn Tunnel Jcn yard was closed various groups of sidings (most of the yards in fact) were immediately disconnected to stop them being used.  That was an excellebnt discipline because Gloucester very soon got into somthing of a oickle and Controllers were trying hard to get trains put off at the Tunnel untol they found they couldn't.  And that in turn meant Gloucester had to be sorted - so i was sent there to do exactly that and duly sorted most of the problems fairly quickly ( happened to have experience running yards and knew the tricks involved in keeping work current).