Bilton Junction

[Jon4470]

13 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Hi Jon,

 

Many thanks for confirmation that the Hornby coach is OK. Must be me not having looked at Harris properly. I have Campling somewhere in store.

 

The 65' Dg148 is shown in Harris but that is going to be difficult.

 

I am modelling circa 1960. I'm not sure if ex-LNER vehicles were still featuring then on Edinburgh to St Pancras trains as they had since North British days. But it makes an interesting change from BR Mk1 sleepers on the other trains. I will, in due course, try to make some of the ex-LMS sleepers to give some more variety.

 

 

The other LNER option would be the Thompson carriages. I don’t know much about them - too late for my modelling- but Bill Bedford (Mousa Models) lists sides for two diagrams. These are both sleeper thirds - Diagram 368 and 369.

They are 66 ft length....but it might be possible to use the old Bachmann underframes and lengthen them slightly.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

Over the last few weeks I’ve been steadily plodding along with the NER coach. The roof was marked and drilled for ventilators. Then glued to the body shell. More recently filling, and sanding, the joint between the end castings and main roof. I find that job dull.......but it is important because the roof is what you see on a model railway generally. 

 

On the the subject of Spencer..... I may have a way forward for the crankpins.  The pins that I used before were just that - pins. They ended up revolving in the wheel which was no good with valve gear attached. I was thinking about using Gibson crankpins. These, though, are designed to go in from the back of the wheel. That is not easy to achieve (nice and straight) when the wheels are already mounted on their axles. If I put these in from the front then I couldn’t figure out how to attach the valve gear crank. ( Gibson crankpins are steel I.e. not something that you can solder to). 

 

Last week I was looking around to order some 10ba bolts for the coach when I discovered that there are also 14ba brass bolts. Obvious really. These are the brass equivalent of the steel Gibson pins. I can solder to brass. The bolts arrived today so I made a little experiment.

 

 

 

You have to pretend that the square bit of plastic is a wheel!  I drilled a 0.8 mm hole and then tapped it with a 14ba tap. The brass bolt then screws into the plastic. A dab of superglue should lock the thread and stop it unscrewing. I’ll be able to solder the crank to the bolt head.

 

A ( possible) step forward.

 

 I still think that I need to move the cylinders a mm or so as well.

 

Hopefully there will be a bit more to show over the next couple of weeks.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

I’m having a “finishing off” type of a weekend. On the modelling front I’m trying to get the NER coach into primer today. I thought I was nearly there last night when I spotted that several of the windows on each side were missing a vertical divide. So this morning I set about the slow task of curing these to size and super gluing them in. One side done...other side this afternoon.

 

 

 

Also I was not happy with the safety valve cover for the Raven A2. It was too large a diameter - by about 1.5 mm. So this morning I took  a piece of plasticard, drilled a hole in the centre and fitted it on the mandrel for the Dremel mini drill. Held the Dremel in the vice and used a file to produce a circle of the correct diameter. The used a round file to create the concave curve around the cover. This is the first time that I’ve done this procedure and it was surprisingly easy. New cover resting on the boiler next to the old one:

 

 

 

Now to fit it in place.

 

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

Jon excellent tip that on the dremel mandrel, one I’ll need to borrow at some point on WTW no5 if I ever manage to get back to it!

 Cheers 

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Jon excellent tip that on the dremel mandrel, one I’ll need to borrow at some point on WTW no5 if I ever manage to get back to it!

 Cheers 

 

Hi Ade 

Good to hear from you!

 

I can’t claim credit for originality with regard to the Dremel, I ‘ve seen a few people post about it. It can be useful for polishing castings as well as being used as a very basic “lathe”. First time I’ve done it though, and it was quite straightforward.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

Primer now on the coach:

 

and the other side

 

 

 

This highlights some areas that need more filling and filing. Also I think that the roof destination board brackets need to be thinned down ( must search for some thinner plastic rod for future use)

A couple of the plastic pieces used to divide the top lights did not survive cleaning and painting either! (Top photo)

 

Jon

 

 

[jessy1692]

Looking great Jon, something just right about a Gresley coach to me.

All the best

James

[Jon4470]

5 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Looking great Jon, something just right about a Gresley coach to me.

All the best

James

 

Hi James

 

I like the look of these coaches - they look traditional but not fussy - almost modern. They were an open third with end doors only and generally used to provide dining seats. Only 10 were built in total though.

 

The first batch was built in 1908 by the NER so not actually a Gresley coach though! 

 

I think that the reason it looks like Gresley is the roof style. Below is a photo that includes it all:

 

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

Evening Jon, every day is a school day with coaches it seems  havnt fallen down that worm hole yet. I seem to be amassing wagons at the mo.. well out of your time zone but i have to say i do like the pre war LNER/NER stuff, one day i may delve in.

 

Looking forward to seeing it painted, your previous 'teaking' looked great.

 

Ps hows the errant Spencer going? RT models seems to be dropping hints that new kits are being worked on, hopefully Barber is getting close.

 

Keep up the good work

James

[Jon4470]

7 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

.

 

Ps hows the errant Spencer going? RT models seems to be dropping hints that new kits are being worked on, hopefully Barber is getting close.

 

Keep up the good work

James

 

I saw your posts in RT models thread......definitely dropping hints 

Would be great if he does produce Barber.

 

Spencer is still there - sulking at me. I’m having one of my finish off things phases. The coach is getting close. The Raven A2 is having the really awkward bits ( like the safety valve covers) sorted. So then I should be able to concentrate on Spencer. Chassis first - I think I have my way forward with the valve gear - then body mods .... most likely in brass.

 

I’ve been tidying various unbuilt future projects into boxes.....trying to clear some space.......I have to because the modelling room is now also my working from home office! It can get very distracting at times during the day though...

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

The ex NER coach has had the final bits of filing completed and a full coat of primer. The underframe also has the topcoats going on.

 

 

 

This coach will eventually form part of a Newcastle to Liverpool service. If I remember correctly this was initiated by the NER and LNWR and ran via Leeds and Ripon. (The NER and L&Y service ran via York and, I think, missed Leeds)

 

In LNER days the coach sets were shared between the LMS and LNER. Each company added their own catering portion appropriate to the time of day. So this gives me the chance to run a rake of LMS coaches with some LNER ones attached to provide catering. Should be colourful !

 

Talking of colour.......the NER painted these coaches in Crimson Lake. After WW2 they were plain brown and unlined. In the 20s and 30s.....there is debate as to whether they were brown or scumbled (mock teak). They look like they were lined (mainly) but retaining the NER style I.e. on the edges of the panel mouldings - not on top. Gulp!

 

Decision time is fast approaching - brown or teak?

 

Jon

 

[jessy1692]

10 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

The ex NER coach has had the final bits of filing completed and a full coat of primer. The underframe also has the topcoats going on.

 

 

 

This coach will eventually form part of a Newcastle to Liverpool service. If I remember correctly this was initiated by the NER and LNWR and ran via Leeds and Ripon. (The NER and L&Y service ran via York and, I think, missed Leeds)

 

In LNER days the coach sets were shared between the LMS and LNER. Each company added their own catering portion appropriate to the time of day. So this gives me the chance to run a rake of LMS coaches with some LNER ones attached to provide catering. Should be colourful !

 

Talking of colour.......the NER painted these coaches in Crimson Lake. After WW2 they were plain brown and unlined. In the 20s and 30s.....there is debate as to whether they were brown or scumbled (mock teak). They look like they were lined (mainly) but retaining the NER style I.e. on the edges of the panel mouldings - not on top. Gulp!

 

Decision time is fast approaching - brown or teak?

 

Jon

 

Teak all the way!

[Jon4470]

27 minutes ago, jessy1692 said:

Teak all the way!

 

Probably 60:40 in my mind in favour of teak at the moment. 

 

On the basis that, whatever colour I use, the moment I finish it a beautiful photo will appear that proves that I should have used the other colour

[Jon4470]

On a different note.

 

While browsing around ( or researching- depends on you point of view!) on the NERA website this weekend I found some data about the signal box at Bilton Junction. Apparently it was called Bilton Road Junction until around 1937. Then it was simplified to Bilton Junction.

 

 

[jessy1692]

2 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

On a different note.

 

While browsing around ( or researching- depends on you point of view!) on the NERA website this weekend I found some data about the signal box at Bilton Junction. Apparently it was called Bilton Road Junction until around 1937. Then it was simplified to Bilton Junction.

 

 

Always the way when you paint or build something!

 

Now that is interesting, never knew that, wonder why Bilton Road and not Bilton Lane which is the road, perhaps it was Bilton Road at one point

[Jon4470]

This week while I think about coach colours I re- started work on the chassis for Spencer. Each night one little step forward......

I stripped off the valve gear - then tested the running.

I moved the right hand cylinder back a few mm...then tested the running

I drilled, tapped and then attached the coupling rods with a bolt on the forward wheel. One side at a time.... and tested the running.

You get the picture by now

 

I then attached the connecting rods. These were held away from the coupling rods by a bush cut from brass tube. Then tested the running.

 

The bolts were un done until they almost came out of the wheels, superglue - very carefully- applied to the thread and the bolts screwed back in. Guess what? I then tested the running. 

 

Finally the eccentric crank was soldered to the bolt head.

 

Halle-bloomin- lullah.......it ran 

 

Pictures to show each side

 

 

 

 

Overall view view of the chassis from underneath.

 

 

 

Very cruel close close up of the attachment to the front wheel. This shows the eccentric soldered to the bolt head and the bush that separates the connecting rod from the coupling rod. My aim was to try to get the valve gear operating fore and aft only rather than at an angle ( caused by the narrow wheel gauge compared to the width of the cylinders)

 

 

 

Now to have a celebratory glass...... and hope it all still works in the morning!

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

Well done on the work there Jon to sort it.

may come in handy for me when I start my L&B conversion.

A glass or 3 for sure!

 Cheers 

[jessy1692]

Lovely neat job Jon, too marks for persevering with the bu**er!

Hope you enjoyed the well deserved glass or two.

James

[Jon4470]

9 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Well done on the work there Jon to sort it.

may come in handy for me when I start my L&B conversion.

A glass or 3 for sure!

 Cheers 

 

Thanks Ade.

 

The “break through” was when I realised that I could use a brass 14ba bolt as a crankpin. (It was helpful that I already had a tap for that!)

 

Jon

 

PS it was 2 glasses

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Lovely neat job Jon, too marks for persevering with the bu**er!

Hope you enjoyed the well deserved glass or two.

James

 

I thing that I might order nameplates......using the name you suggested there

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

You may have noticed that there are no crankpins on the centre wheels. That is because when I put the pin in on one side the chassis still worked. Put the pin in on the other side and it only managed a quarter turn. So something is not quite aligned. It could be that the centre wheel set is 1 cog out on the gear train. Or it could just be that the hole for the crank pin is slightly mis- aligned. Either way the pins are, effectively, cosmetic because the wheels are all driven by the internal gear train. I will just glue on the head of a lace pin to make it look better.

 

I will tidy up the motion bracket today - everything is just resting (solidly) in place at the moment.

 

Next step is to look at getting the body on without the short that was happening earlier. The body is a real tight fit on the chassis.....so some filing is probably on the cards.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

I have sorted out the short that the body was causing. There was a piece of copper strip sticking up vertically just in front of the main worm gear. No idea where it was supposed to be - but when I cut it off the short dis appeared and the loco still ran.

 

Well it did run until a bit of the valve gear locked......cursing started. I really should have fixed the valve gear to the motion support bracket first. More haste and less speed!

 

Anyway, once had sorted the valve gear out, re-glued one of the crankpins and then re-attached the eccentric all was well. The loco ran with a body on top.

 

I celebrated by ordering the Spencer nameplates...... they will take some time to arrive no doubt, because of all the lockdown delays at etching companies. Not a problem for me....I don’t think that this loco is going to give in easily!

 

Today I marked up and cut out the cab faceplate and back plate. Seen here resting in place - I think they look ok.

 

 

Next job is to create the roof......that should be fun, as it has a cut out to allow the crew to get in. Marking out and cutting that is one thing, then I have to form it to match the shape of the cab front and back. Still it's good experience because I would like to do a scratchbuilt loco one day.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

2 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

I have sorted out the short that the body was causing. There was a piece of copper strip sticking up vertically just in front of the main worm gear. No idea where it was supposed to be - but when I cut it off the short dis appeared and the loco still ran.

 

Well it did run until a bit of the valve gear locked......cursing started. I really should have fixed the valve gear to the motion support bracket first. More haste and less speed!

 

Anyway, once had sorted the valve gear out, re-glued one of the crankpins and then re-attached the eccentric all was well. The loco ran with a body on top.

 

I celebrated by ordering the Spencer nameplates...... they will take some time to arrive no doubt, because of all the lockdown delays at etching companies. Not a problem for me....I don’t think that this loco is going to give in easily!

 

Today I marked up and cut out the cab faceplate and back plate. Seen here resting in place - I think they look ok.

 

 

Next job is to create the roof......that should be fun, as it has a cut out to allow the crew to get in. Marking out and cutting that is one thing, then I have to form it to match the shape of the cab front and back. Still it's good experience because I would like to do a scratchbuilt loco one day.

 

Jon

Spencer really coming on now, fingers crossed the chassis is tamed!

[AdeMoore]

Looking good Jon, question is all the whitemetal soldered together?

with 70 deg low melt?

If so what’s the technique tin both bits and then bring them together with the iron playing on the area briefly as possible?

or maybe flux a plenty then bring both bits iron and solder together at once and flow it in hopefully!?

 Cheers in advance I’ve got the L&B one day to do.

[Jon4470]

9 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Looking good Jon, question is all the whitemetal soldered together?

with 70 deg low melt?

If so what’s the technique tin both bits and then bring them together with the iron playing on the area briefly as possible?

or maybe flux a plenty then bring both bits iron and solder together at once and flow it in hopefully!?

 Cheers in advance I’ve got the L&B one day to do.

 

Hi Ade

 

Thanks - I think it is now getting there.

 

I solder as much as possible. Two reasons - it’s quicker and it’s less messy (I end up with glue everywhere....)

I use 70deg solder and a temperature controlled soldering iron. The solder is like liquid white metal, so it is different to solder on brass. Get it right and it almost becomes part of the casting. I use the iron at 250 deg....hotter than some people advocate. I haven’t melted any castings yet though. 

Usual thing with solder, clean the areas to be joined, make sure they fit properly on a dry run, flux ( I just use phosphoric acid) and then pick the solder and go in. (Sometimes it is helpful to cut pieces of low melt solder and drop them onto the joint, then go in with the iron. No need to rush , but don’t dwell too long. If possible rest the iron on the largest casting. Once joined hold the castings until the solder goes a dull colour. It was scary the first few times. If you have any scrap practice on that.

 

 

Also take a look at video footage ( must be some on You Tube) - I found seeing and hearing it much easier to grasp than the written instructions. I learned from Tony Wright’s DVDs.

 

Remember the barrel of the soldering iron will melt white metal..... how do I know?

 

 

Hope that helps and good luck! 

 

Jon