Bilton Junction

[AdeMoore]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hi Ade

 

Thanks - I think it is now getting there.

 

I solder as much as possible. Two reasons - it’s quicker and it’s less messy (I end up with glue everywhere....)

I use 70deg solder and a temperature controlled soldering iron. The solder is like liquid white metal, so it is different to solder on brass. Get it right and it almost becomes part of the casting. I use the iron at 250 deg....hotter than some people advocate. I haven’t melted any castings yet though. 

Usual thing with solder, clean the areas to be joined, make sure they fit properly on a dry run, flux ( I just use phosphoric acid) and then pick the solder and go in. (Sometimes it is helpful to cut pieces of low melt solder and drop them onto the joint, then go in with the iron. No need to rush , but don’t dwell too long. If possible rest the iron on the largest casting. Once joined hold the castings until the solder goes a dull colour. It was scary the first few times. If you have any scrap practice on that.

 

 

Also take a look at video footage ( must be some on You Tube) - I found seeing and hearing it much easier to grasp than the written instructions. I learned from Tony Wright’s DVDs.

 

Remember the barrel of the soldering iron will melt white metal..... how do I know?

 

 

Hope that helps and good luck! 

 

Jon

 

Brilliant Jon thanks, yes I have a melted slot on the edge of my magnifier where I was only concentrating on the tip! Plastic burning soon alerts you! Not that luxury on white metal thanks for the reminder.

ill have a little YouTube search.

 Cheers 

Ade

[Jon4470]

I cut the roof out today.

 

The cutouts for the cab entry were made while in the flat using a template made from the loco plans. I cut most of the metal away with the piercing saw and then filed to the final shape. 

 

Then out with the rollers to get the roof shape. That went more easily than I thought, I feared that I might get creases around the cutout.

 

Finally drill out the cab spectacles.

 

Soldered front and back to roof and....

 

Unfortunately the other side overhung by the thickness of the roof!

 

 

I thought that I had measured carefully and checked properly.......

 

So time to unsolder the roof assembly and file down the front and back plates. Then re-assemble.....

 

 

and the other side

 

 

Much better!

 

 

In the last photo you can see the beading that I’ve added from copper wire.

 

 

 

So the overall view now look like this.

 

 

I’m pleased with the progress this weekend. It feels like I’m getting there.

 

Jon

 

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Jon4470
Typo

[jessy1692]

Excellent job Jon, looks superb well worth the effort in brass.

[Jon4470]

Nearly there with Spencer now.

 

Nearly all details on, just the smokebox door, handle, jacks and couplings to go. I’m going to try Dingham couplings on this to see if I can get them working.

 

Then there will be a big clean up prior to painting.

 

 

There is some filling to do between the motion bracket and the bottom front of the side tanks. Also between the cab and side on the right hand rear....not quite as good as the fit on the left hand side seen in the photo

 

I’ve even invested in a left hand turnout......so I plan to mock up the Tar Dock as a little diorama and do a bit of shunting in the not too distant future.

 

Jon

 

 

[jessy1692]

Looks fantastic Jon, great effort. A couple of screw jacks from RT models on the front footplate will really finish it off.

 

Are you doing it black? I often wonder if it was actually hunslet green..

James

[Jon4470]

42 minutes ago, jessy1692 said:

Looks fantastic Jon, great effort. A couple of screw jacks from RT models on the front footplate will really finish it off.

 

Are you doing it black? I often wonder if it was actually hunslet green..

James

 

Thanks for the compliment - and encouragement through the build. May well take the tip about the jacks. The ones in the kit look a bit lumpy.

 

For the colour I will go for green. The “yellow book “ says that it may have been painted green in later years. That will do for me! Any recommendations for a source for Hunslet green paint?

 

Jon

 

PS There are two photos in the yellow book that show the tar dock bridge....no sign of plate girders ( although I think both are from the last year or so of the line)

 

 

[jessy1692]

3 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Thanks for the compliment - and encouragement through the build. May well take the tip about the jacks. The ones in the kit look a bit lumpy.

 

For the colour I will go for green. The “yellow book “ says that it may have been painted green in later years. That will do for me! Any recommendations for a source for Hunslet green paint?

 

Jon

 

PS There are two photos in the yellow book that show the tar dock bridge....no sign of plate girders ( although I think both are from the last year or so of the line)

 

 

Im not sure what shade hunslet green is, i have a print of Barber in a dark green which i assume is hunslet green, without being able to check at me dads i thinks its like lner darlington green? Im sure others will know more.

 

Maybe the tar dock bridge did have railings then.. will have a trawl through for the yellow book at dads when im allowed back!

Cheers

Jamez

[Jon4470]

Thanks. 

 

I have Darlington green so backstop will be to use that, maybe with a dash of black to darken it a bit.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

Tonight I was having a little play around with my one turn out and one piece of track to see how the tar dock would size up. Photos show two tank wagons could fit either side of the turn out. Out came the ruler....this makes the tar dock to be about 46cm long.

 

Looks big to me ...... so off to look at the track plans.

 

The signal diagram give 32yds of wagon standage in the standard gauge siding alongside the tar dock. 32 yd’s = 96 ft = 384mm. So not far off my 46cm estimate.

 

Also checked my layout calculations and the tar dock would finish around 60cm into the first board (there would be a level crossing first). 

 

All seems to agree... so the tar dock will up the best part of half of one board. Somehow in my head it wasn’t that big! Strange how the mental picture doesn’t agree with reality. I suppose it reinforces the need to play around to see how things look before cutting timber, plastic etc.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

9 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Tonight I was having a little play around with my one turn out and one piece of track to see how the tar dock would size up. Photos show two tank wagons could fit either side of the turn out. Out came the ruler....this makes the tar dock to be about 46cm long.

 

Looks big to me ...... so off to look at the track plans.

 

The signal diagram give 32yds of wagon standage in the standard gauge siding alongside the tar dock. 32 yd’s = 96 ft = 384mm. So not far off my 46cm estimate.

 

Also checked my layout calculations and the tar dock would finish around 60cm into the first board (there would be a level crossing first). 

 

All seems to agree... so the tar dock will up the best part of half of one board. Somehow in my head it wasn’t that big! Strange how the mental picture doesn’t agree with reality. I suppose it reinforces the need to play around to see how things look before cutting timber, plastic etc.

 

Jon

The tar dock is pretty big in real life, mine is a lot smaller than it should be and also most pics only show it with the train on the turn point and missing the section towards the drops. I think they could fit 2 of the round barrel tanks in front of the point like you say, were the later squarer tanks longer? Need to get back to modelling at my dads with the 'library'!

Cant wait to see pics of your boards when you get there.

James

[Jon4470]

12 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

 

Cant wait to see pics of your boards when you get there.

James

 

 

My idea ( I really can’t call it a plan because that would imply I knew what I need to do)  is to mock up the tar dock in cardboard. What it will demonstrate is how little I know and how much I need to find out. What I mean by that is, that the dock is basically a rectangle....but how high, how long, how wide etc. The other point is that it isn’t a rectangle - there are bridge abutments at an angle, I think it is angled at the opposite end as well, the ground falls on one side to well below mainline track level etc.

All these things I sort of know, but probably not accurately enough to make a model. I hope the mock up will help me to get a shopping list of information that I need. Then I can research the answers. I may even do a site visit with a tape measure....if I feel brave enough!

 

 

I also think I’ll try and lay down the mainline track bed on the baseboard. The idea then then would be that the mock up tar dock can be put in place to really see how it will all fit together.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

12 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

. I think they could fit 2 of the round barrel tanks in front of the point like you say, were the later squarer tanks longer? 

James

 

Hi James

 

The early tanks were 16’10” long and the later ones were 23’6” ( yellow book)

 

Two of the early tanks appear in pictures just beyond the turnout. Looks to me like there was a similar length at the other end of the point. This other end was used judging by the tar deposits on the concrete wall. There were also buffer stops at each end.

 

The main line siding wagon standage at 32 yd’s ( so 96 ft) implies that 4, maybe 5, rectangular tank wagons could fit along side the tar dock.

 

All of this points to the dock being about 100 ft long.....in 4mm scale that is 400mm. 

 

For anyone one reading this who hasn’t any idea what I’m wittering on about I apologise! With any luck I’ll mock something up and photograph it soon.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

11 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hi James

 

The early tanks were 16’10” long and the later ones were 23’6” ( yellow book)

 

Two of the early tanks appear in pictures just beyond the turnout. Looks to me like there was a similar length at the other end of the point. This other end was used judging by the tar deposits on the concrete wall. There were also buffer stops at each end.

 

The main line siding wagon standage at 32 yd’s ( so 96 ft) implies that 4, maybe 5, rectangular tank wagons could fit along side the tar dock.

 

All of this points to the dock being about 100 ft long.....in 4mm scale that is 400mm. 

 

For anyone one reading this who hasn’t any idea what I’m wittering on about I apologise! With any luck I’ll mock something up and photograph it soon.

 

Jon

Morning Jon, sounds about to me do them guesstimates, next time im down there ill take a few pics. Its very overgrown now so if you plan a visit id maybe hang on till winter so you can see a bit better. It is an odd shape so definitely one you need pics to work off.

 

Funny how they built the dock so big and only had a couple of tanks at any one time! The tar stains are heaviest at the Bilton Lane end but there is staining beyond towards the coal drops like you say.

 

My model of it was done many moons ago and if i started again id re do my version of the drops. If my Dad ends up moving house it might not be too far away!

Cheers

James

[Pete_Saint1885]

Hi Guys, I have been following this thread with much interest. I am not a model railway enthusiast or do I make model railways but I am fascinated with this Bilton layout and the Gas works Barbour line in general. I have lived in Bilton, Harrogate for about 20 years now and have always been fascinated with this narrow gauge railway. Since lockdown I have been walking almost every day down the Cycle way/viaduct area/Bilton lane. Today I took the following picture of the Tar dock at the end of the cycle path that would have been opposite the old signal box and right where it meets Bilton lane. I reckon it is about 138-140 feet long in total as I measured it walking along by the side of it and it took me 52 steps. One of my steps is about 32 inches so I make that 32 x 52 = 1,664 which is about 138.666 feet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete_Saint1885]

I also took another photo on the footpath that runs along between the allotments (on my right) and the sewage works (on my left) which I believe is the route the narrow gauge railway took. There is a plaque on a post just the other side of the road you can see in the photo which I will post separately as you can only post 10mbs of photos in one post. 

 

[Pete_Saint1885]

Here is the photo of the plaque I mentioned in the last post.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jon4470]

1 hour ago, Pete_Saint1885 said:

Hi Guys, I have been following this thread with much interest. I am not a model railway enthusiast or do I make model railways but I am fascinated with this Bilton layout and the Gas works Barbour line in general. I have lived in Bilton, Harrogate for about 20 years now and have always been fascinated with this narrow gauge railway. Since lockdown I have been walking almost every day down the Cycle way/viaduct area/Bilton lane. Today I took the following picture of the Tar dock at the end of the cycle path that would have been opposite the old signal box and right where it meets Bilton lane. I reckon it is about 138-140 feet long in total as I measured it walking along by the side of it and it took me 52 steps. One of my steps is about 32 inches so I make that 32 x 52 = 1,664 which is about 138.666 feet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Pete and welcome to the thread!

 

Thanks for the photos and the dimensions.

 

I really enjoy the research aspect of the hobby. Trying to find out, not just “the what” but also why and how.

 

For some people, I guess, the tar dock in the photo is just a lump of concrete. To me, though, it provokes the question “why is it here?” 

 

Have you read read the Narrow Gauge Railway Society book about this line? It gives a lot of background information about the Gas works and the railway.

 

Jon

[Pete_Saint1885]

Hi Jon, No I have not read the book but have been trying to get one but I believe it went out of print in 1995. I see you can get one on Amazon for about 32 quid, I presume the book you are referring to is "Harrogate Gas Works" by Martin P F Hallows & David H Smith? I reckon if I shop around I might be able to find one cheaper. I was talking to someone from the New Park Primary school about the tunnel for the railway. I was under the impression that it came out somewhere around the school. He was telling me that it actually came out under what is now the hand car wash company on Sykes Grove or near there. He also said that they have a museum in the school about the railway and when we are back to somewhat normal I would be welcome to go have a look, he also said that there will be something about it on their New Park Academy website when its finished being rebuilt.

 

 

 

 

[Jon4470]

That is the book that I refer to....I  didn’t realise how much copies were going for now. It will be worth shopping around for though.

there is another book with some history and a few photos. This is Narrow Gauge Railways by Humphrey Household. The photos are all from 1928.

 

It would be interesting to find out what the school museum has.

 

From the photos, when looking at the tunnel entrance, the school is on the left. The other end of the tunnel is in someone’s back garden. Photo of this is further back in this thread.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

3 hours ago, Pete_Saint1885 said:

Hi Jon, No I have not read the book but have been trying to get one but I believe it went out of print in 1995. I see you can get one on Amazon for about 32 quid, I presume the book you are referring to is "Harrogate Gas Works" by Martin P F Hallows & David H Smith? I reckon if I shop around I might be able to find one cheaper. I was talking to someone from the New Park Primary school about the tunnel for the railway. I was under the impression that it came out somewhere around the school. He was telling me that it actually came out under what is now the hand car wash company on Sykes Grove or near there. He also said that they have a museum in the school about the railway and when we are back to somewhat normal I would be welcome to go have a look, he also said that there will be something about it on their New Park Academy website when its finished being rebuilt.

 

 

 

 

Evening Pete, as a fellow Biltoner (tennyson avenue/willow grove) The railway came out like you say under the car wash down the side of the school, if your intersted i could scan the book in and send it over. I also have some pics that i have sent to Jon but cant post here if you want them?

Good to see another Biltoner on here, just wish my family took pics!

Edited July 10, 2020 by jessy1692
Correct spelling, been in the pub..

[jessy1692]

12 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

That is the book that I refer to....I  didn’t realise how much copies were going for now. It will be worth shopping around for though.

there is another book with some history and a few photos. This is Narrow Gauge Railways by Humphrey Household. The photos are all from 1928.

 

It would be interesting to find out what the school museum has.

 

From the photos, when looking at the tunnel entrance, the school is on the left. The other end of the tunnel is in someone’s back garden. Photo of this is further back in this thread.

 

Jon

Evening Jon, im not sure what the school has but it could be gold dust.. there must be more detail out there.

James

[Pete_Saint1885]

11 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Evening Pete, as a fellow Biltoner (tennyson avenue/willow grove) The railway came out like you say under the car wash down the side of the school, if your intersted i could scan the book in and send it over. I also have some pics that i have sent to Jon but cant post here if you want them?

Good to see another Biltoner on here, just wish my family took pics!

Hi Jessy, Yeah I have been a Biltoner for nearly 20 years now, thats if you count Knox Drive. Apparently the two bungalows opposite the end of Knox Drive on Knox Avenue are set back from the other bungalows because of the Tunnel underneath, thats according to my neighbour who has lived here since the house was built in 1960. Thanks for the offer of scanning the book and sending it over, sounds a lot of work and effort, I will keep trying for now to buy it but thanks for the offer much appreciated. 

[jessy1692]

22 hours ago, Pete_Saint1885 said:

Hi Jessy, Yeah I have been a Biltoner for nearly 20 years now, thats if you count Knox Drive. Apparently the two bungalows opposite the end of Knox Drive on Knox Avenue are set back from the other bungalows because of the Tunnel underneath, thats according to my neighbour who has lived here since the house was built in 1960. Thanks for the offer of scanning the book and sending it over, sounds a lot of work and effort, I will keep trying for now to buy it but thanks for the offer much appreciated. 

No probs Pete, if you get stuck let me know, wont take long at all to scan it through from work. As the set back houses i think your neighbour is spot on, i often wonder if anyone still accesses the tunnel to check it condition. Its probably sealed up tight now at the knox end and New Park.

Cheers

James

[Pete_Saint1885]

Jon & Jessie, I was again down at Bilton junction this morning and took another couple of photos. This time I walked past the end of the Tar Dock and measured it at about 24 feet, that is 9 x my 32in steps, 9 x 32 = 288 and when divided by 12 = 24 feet (Approx). From the end furthest away from the cycle path I took the following picture which shows the steady climb up to the dock and where you can clearly see both but ends of where the bridge once stood. I could not post the full picture I took as you can only upload 10mb and the pano shot I took is 14mb. 

 

 

[Pete_Saint1885]

Jon & Jessie, This shot shows the end of the tar dock from the cycle path side.