Pylons .

[L2's are great!]

Also having never seen a blaw knox L6 D90 tower before, am i right in saying this is one of them??

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I’ll just leave this here … https://telcontar.net/Power/pylons/series — still in progress. Not sure how far I’ll get, and I don’t plan to cover all the oddities, only those types that can be accurately converted into SVG diagrams. Maybe someone somewhere will find the various types easier to understand this way than having to trawl around the Web for months trying to figure anything out.

[pharrc20]

46 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

I’ll just leave this here … https://telcontar.net/Power/pylons/series — still in progress. Not sure how far I’ll get, and I don’t plan to cover all the oddities, only those types that can be accurately converted into SVG diagrams. Maybe someone somewhere will find the various types easier to understand this way than having to trawl around the Web for months trying to figure anything out.

Hi Daniel, an interesting site indeed, the more information the better. One tower that does seem to be an anomaly is the L2 with extended middle crossarms as so far no evidence has emerged for this design actually being built. But it does share some similarities with the L6 in size and shape. One day something might come to light.

Cheers Paul

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What does “EC” in “L2 <anything>EC” denote? Somewhere here there is something like L2 D40EC with what did appear to be extended middle crossarms. Probably not related. The server failure that wiped most of the images out of this topic has destroyed a lot of data that I could have used, but there are still some bits left, like the incomplete portions of the L34 plans. (I was able to salvage the L34 suspension tower plan although the designation is missing, but the tension tower plans are too incomplete to use — there must be at least one more page with the base drawings.) I will scavenge this whole topic at some stage. I need to complete phase 1 of the Tower Bible drawings, plus clean up all my own photos (got a few more types to come, including PL7 DDT and what may be PL4 DD2, although there is another four-crossarm DD type buried here on one of the pages that is neither PL4 nor in the Tower Bible).

 

None of the knowledge floating around has ever been collated (unless you count paywalled work, and I cannot allow myself access to such work as I would then not feel at liberty to make the knowledge thus gained available outside of the paywall), which is what I have tragically taken it upon myself to attempt, at possibly the cost of the remaining fragments of my own sanity. It won’t end well, but it will be a better start for those that come after me.

[pharrc20]

20 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

What does “EC” in “L2 <anything>EC” denote? Somewhere here there is something like L2 D40EC with what did appear to be extended middle crossarms. Probably not related. The server failure that wiped most of the images out of this topic has destroyed a lot of data that I could have used, but there are still some bits left, like the incomplete portions of the L34 plans. (I was able to salvage the L34 suspension tower plan although the designation is missing, but the tension tower plans are too incomplete to use — there must be at least one more page with the base drawings.) I will scavenge this whole topic at some stage. I need to complete phase 1 of the Tower Bible drawings, plus clean up all my own photos (got a few more types to come, including PL7 DDT and what may be PL4 DD2, although there is another four-crossarm DD type buried here on one of the pages that is neither PL4 nor in the Tower Bible).

 

None of the knowledge floating around has ever been collated (unless you count paywalled work, and I cannot allow myself access to such work as I would then not feel at liberty to make the knowledge thus gained available outside of the paywall), which is what I have tragically taken it upon myself to attempt, at possibly the cost of the remaining fragments of my own sanity. It won’t end well, but it will be a better start for those that come after me.

Ah sanity lol.... yes I wonder about mine too sometimes! But I just enjoy researching the British tower designs and lines too much lol.

 

The L2 D40 EC is a version used where the two circuits can deviate in different directions away from the tower. Often used on the approach to substations. At first glance they appear like a D30 with the angled top peak but feature squared off end crossarms. A pair are used on the River Tyne crossing and can be found on google earth. Paul Rees aka Pylon King may well still hopefully have the original image files that he uploaded.

 

Cheers Paul

[Daniel Beardsmore]

My objective is to base my work on official material (whether for engineers or stakeholders), to limit reliance on unsourced information. (Possibly less of a problem here but with a previous subject I’ve found the circulating information within the corresponding community to have become a game of Chinese whispers and to be hopelessly unreliable.) One example that has come to light is claims of D10S vs D5S for PL1(b), neither one proved, and no way to know which is true if either. I did just get some PL1 S10 suspension plans from Ian McAulay, but this neither proves nor disproves the existence of either D10S or D5S, nor of the notation used. (I have already decided to retrospectively apply modern notation, e.g. “D2”, not “D.2.°”, although I may change my mind on that. The format “L3(c)” annoys me because that is how I write “L3 or L3c and I don’t know which” but unfortunately it also means L3c specifically! L3/L3c implies both, so I must be careful to indicate that I don’t know which flavour it is, and XOR is outside of the scope of English!)

 

The decision to work from source data is one reason that inherently limits the tower type coverage that I will be able to achieve. I make a specific caveat that all my photos are purely speculative because I have no documented evidence that any particular tower is what I assess it to be (it could be any of the undocumented intermediate variations) — it just helps give readers a better idea than the diagrams alone. (For PL1 vs PL1b I will just lump the whole lot in together for now, as nobody seems to have a clue what the difference is.)

Edited September 1, 2022 by Daniel Beardsmore
Misremembered something!

[pharrc20]

13 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

My objective is to base my work on official material (whether for engineers or stakeholders), to limit reliance on unsourced information. (Possibly less of a problem here but with a previous subject I’ve found the circulating information within the corresponding community to have become a game of Chinese whispers and to be hopelessly unreliable.) One example that has come to light is claims of D10S vs D5S for PL1(b), neither one proved, and no way to know which is true if either. I did just get some PL1 S10 suspension plans from Ian McAulay, but this neither proves nor disproves the existence of either D10S or D5S, nor of the notation used. (I have already decided to retrospectively apply modern notation, e.g. “D2”, not “D.2.°”, although I may change my mind on that. The format “L3(c)” annoys me because that is how I write “L3 or L3c and I don’t know which” but unfortunately it also means L3c specifically! L3/L3c implies both, so I must be careful to indicate that I don’t know which flavour it is, and XOR is outside of the scope of English!)

 

The decision to work from source data is one reason that inherently limits the tower type coverage that I will be able to achieve. I make a specific caveat that all my photos are purely speculative because I have no documented evidence that any particular tower is what I assess it to be (it could be any of the undocumented intermediate variations) — it just helps give readers a better idea than the diagrams alone. (For PL1 vs PL1b I will just lump the whole lot in together for now, as nobody seems to have a clue what the difference is.)

Yep getting official drawings seems rather hard these days. I have too seen hints and suggestions of others having drawings or access to them and suggestions to make them available for the wider use seems to fall on deaf ears hmm. The PL1 S series seems hard to come by on paper. Yes much confusion about the different PL1 types I agree. It is a pity the Tower Bible was not the complete version that was obtained and uploaded to the PAS forum but still useful nonetheless.

Cheers Paul 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I did wonder if there was a more complete copy of the tower bible, but I could only find forum comments from others indicating that what they had was also incomplete. The PDF I have is internally timestamped 2008, so I figured that this was the only circulating copy.

 

What will be, will be, I suppose.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A few photos from today’s pylon hunt …

 

JL Eve (L16 and/or L55) D90, the one I went after — saw it from a train window coming back from last weekend’s hunt; L6 quad lines in the background.

 

Another Eve non-bible DT (again, L16 and/or L55) — at least the fourth now! (after Cell Barnes, Westoning, Piccott’s End and seemingly also Burwell — waiting for MattClass91 to comment on that last one as it’s his photo)

 

L6 D — a far more magnificent vista in person than in a photograph.

 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

pharrc20 and SHMD — looks like it’s just us three left! That last photo was taken from up on a hill at Upper Sundon, and to me it the elevation of the vantage point just doesn’t show in a photo. Here is another J L Eve L16/L55 (?) non-bible DT (Cell Barnes, St Albans), and a standard L16/L55 D2 (L16 D2 and L55 D2 are identical) from the same line (a 17-mile walk in the most recent heatwave), both from my growing backlog! I never did get around to visiting Westoning in person and that is likely relegated to next spring when the sun comes back; Piccotts End possibly likewise.  A proper L16/L55 gallery is due at some stage on my L16/L55 page, once I have done all the photo clean-up to accommodate the output from my irreplaceable, battered old camera. (Note that the tower bible tells us that L16 D2 crossarms are mirrored, not rotationally symmetrical, but all the examples I have seen are rotationally symmetrical. The L55 D2 plans show only half of each crossarm and this may indicate that L55 D2 has the rotational symmetry. I have no other L55 details, only the L16 diagrams in the tower bible that correspond in every other way except that the DT does not match any real DT I have ever seen.)

 

[SHMD]

There are more of us!

...but we all don't respond.

 

I do like what you have brought ot this thread though..

 

Any pointers as to where to "look" for a copy of the Bible?

 

 

Kev.

59 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

pharrc20 and SHMD — looks like it’s just us three left! That last photo was taken from up on a hill at Upper Sundon, and to me it the elevation of the vantage point just doesn’t show in a photo. Here is another J L Eve L16/L55 (?) non-bible DT (Cell Barnes, St Albans), and a standard L16/L55 D2 (L16 D2 and L55 D2 are identical) from the same line (a 17-mile walk in the most recent heatwave), both from my growing backlog! I never did get around to visiting Westoning in person and that is likely relegated to next spring when the sun comes back; Piccotts End possibly likewise.  A proper L16/L55 gallery is due at some stage on my L16/L55 page, once I have done all the photo clean-up to accommodate the output from my irreplaceable, battered old camera. (Note that the tower bible tells us that L16 D2 crossarms are mirrored, not rotationally symmetrical, but all the examples I have seen are rotationally symmetrical. The L55 D2 plans show only half of each crossarm and this may indicate that L55 D2 has the rotational symmetry. I have no other L55 details, only the L16 diagrams in the tower bible that correspond in every other way except that the DT does not match any real DT I have ever seen.)

 

 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

7 minutes ago, SHMD said:

Any pointers as to where to "look" for a copy of the Bible?

 

See the bottom of my link above, under Sources.

[SHMD]

Thanks so much Daniel.

 

 

Kev.

 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

One final item, as something reminded me of it — some kind of L4 or L4m single-circuit tower, which is the transition point between L4 (strung single-circuit) and metal pole in Clapham, Bedfordshire (complete with lens foreign objects, bad framing, lousy levels and failed pixels — the images will get cleaned up when I upload them officially):

 

 

Northern Powergrid’s “Typical Towers in family” for L4 (m) is D, D30, D60, D90, DT, DJT, ST and SF60 (NSP/004/030 in the sources list). “SF” seems to denote a low-height design regardless of series — it’s one of the prefixes that Flash Bristow did not cover. Could be L4 ST I suppose — reminds me of the ST/STX in “L2's are great!”’s uncaptioned diagram of L2 plans with the whole right side sliced off. (Couldn’t figure out what the chart was meant to be until I found the exact same D diagram in Transmission tower development in the UK captioned “L2 D tower”. L2 is however hidden away in the image filename.)

[pharrc20]

7 hours ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

One final item, as something reminded me of it — some kind of L4 or L4m single-circuit tower, which is the transition point between L4 (strung single-circuit) and metal pole in Clapham, Bedfordshire (complete with lens foreign objects, bad framing, lousy levels and failed pixels — the images will get cleaned up when I upload them officially):

 

 

Northern Powergrid’s “Typical Towers in family” for L4 (m) is D, D30, D60, D90, DT, DJT, ST and SF60 (NSP/004/030 in the sources list). “SF” seems to denote a low-height design regardless of series — it’s one of the prefixes that Flash Bristow did not cover. Could be L4 ST I suppose — reminds me of the ST/STX in “L2's are great!”’s uncaptioned diagram of L2 plans with the whole right side sliced off. (Couldn’t figure out what the chart was meant to be until I found the exact same D diagram in Transmission tower development in the UK captioned “L2 D tower”. L2 is however hidden away in the image filename.)

Yes there a few L4 towers that are used in a modified form usually to replace former PL1 S towers where diversion or replacement has been necessary in the past. There are several I can think of on the line that now runs from Runcorn down towards Crewe via Winsford then on towards Stafford although the southern part is largely now gone and I think used to go to Buildwas power station. Some L4 towers in S form have popped up on this line over the years.

 

When I get onto my laptop I will have a dig around for photos and diagrams and see what I can find and PM you.

 

Cheers Paul

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Thanks.

[L2's are great!]

A rather odd type that is fairly rare. There is the line that runs from Creyke Beck to Saltend and then are two other examples between Dounreay - Thurso South and Spittal. They seem to link up to L8 DT's. Although anyone know what tower series they are officially apart of?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

This is a clearer view:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@58.5596734,-3.6069703,3a,20.8y,109.74h,96.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smZ1Ow5Ei7aHsxxJ7ZuqCag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

It’s like a cross between L12 and L2 (I thought it transitioned to L4 from that last photo).

 

Google Street View from 2009 shows just 132 kV PL16, while Open Infrastructure Map shows 132 kV and 275 kV side by side between Dounreay and Thurso. Street View now shows only the baby L12s, so this suggests that the 132 kV line was replaced by 275 kV and that Open Infrastructure Map was drawn during the interim period with both there, before the PL16s were dismantled. (Between Redbourn and Luton there is a de-energised line that has been left unused for years!)

 

This in turn implies these are baby L12s, i.e. a new(er) 275 kV type based on L12, possibly as there was insufficient justification for larger, heavier 400 kV towers. Essentially a redesigned L3 I suppose.

 

Designation: unknown. Nice find!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

L8 apparently:

 

https://www.ssen-transmission.co.uk/media/1173/2108_dounreaymybsterexhibitionposters.pdf

 

Not sure how they figure that one …

 

Edit: L8RD (AKA L8 RD), some vague details here:

 

https://www.nestsproject.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/SSEN003-NeSTS-Design-Selection-v1.0.pdf

Edited September 7, 2022 by Daniel Beardsmore
Moar info

[pharrc20]

3 hours ago, L2&#x27;s are great! said:

A rather odd type that is fairly rare. There is the line that runs from Creyke Beck to Saltend and then are two other examples between Dounreay - Thurso South and Spittal. They seem to link up to L8 DT's. Although anyone know what tower series they are officially apart of?

From memory they are considered to be L8s just can't remember exact spec now. The Creyke Beck to Saltend line towers have been altered at least once if old OS maps are correct and ran to a more southerly route before being changed to the alignment seen now. There was some condition on these towers being used. And then more recently they re-used the design on the aforementioned Thurso line.

Hmm L8RD reduced design?

Cheers Paul

 

PS on the L2s there are three EC designs - EC stands for Earthwire Changeover and comes in D0, D20 and D40 versions though I've only ever seen D40EC towers so far.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Weird that baby L8 looks like it should be a baby L12.

 

“Earthwire Changeover” noted, albeit as unverified, ditto D40EC. I am treading a fine line with unverified data!

 

Various prefixes and suffixes remain unexplained, and some are still unclear even when you see a diagram! I realised that DT90 means that all the downleads exit on the same side; Google’s satellite imagery confirms this at Luton South Substation (a PL1a DT90 I think — another missing tower bible page but it corresponds with PL1 DT90).

 

There is a former transposition tower near me, although only just in range of a 3× optical zoom! Maybe those are DX, as those exist in PL1a and the line in question is indeed PL1a. (So many missing pages from the tower bible! DX is another one of those.)

[pharrc20]

11 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

Weird that baby L8 looks like it should be a baby L12.

 

“Earthwire Changeover” noted, albeit as unverified, ditto D40EC. I am treading a fine line with unverified data!

 

Various prefixes and suffixes remain unexplained, and some are still unclear even when you see a diagram! I realised that DT90 means that all the downleads exit on the same side; Google’s satellite imagery confirms this at Luton South Substation (a PL1a DT90 I think — another missing tower bible page but it corresponds with PL1 DT90).

 

There is a former transposition tower near me, although only just in range of a 3× optical zoom! Maybe those are DX, as those exist in PL1a and the line in question is indeed PL1a. (So many missing pages from the tower bible! DX is another one of those.)

I came across a PL1 transposition tower purely by chance a few years ago near Warrington on one of the lines near there. A swift diversion down the road enabled me to bag some photos of the tower for reference. Not being used for transposition anymore but still odd looking towers. Emperor Ming I think I saw someone on the PAS forum describe them as lol.

 

Cheers Paul 

[Daniel Beardsmore]

It’s in my queue of photos to upload. I can’t see myself going all the way up to Scotland for the baby L8 though, as nice as they are! I want baby L8s here now.

[pharrc20]

36 minutes ago, Daniel Beardsmore said:

It’s in my queue of photos to upload. I can’t see myself going all the way up to Scotland for the baby L8 though, as nice as they are! I want baby L8s here now.

Hull area might be a lot closer for those L8s maybe? I did pass by them some years ago but need to do a full survey of them at some point, something else to do lol.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I’m a bit further dahn sarf mate (clue is in my photo locations, as most come from 15–22 mile walks). I have a PL16 D90 (rare apparently) and L2 D60 in my sights — wanted to go for it this weekend but next weekend’s forecast looks a bit more photogenic, under the rather bold assumption that the forecast holds. Unfortunately, Hell will freeze before I ever draw a conclusion about replacing my busted old camera, which ruins so many of my photos. This project is a bubble ready to burst. Not sure why I am even here … Long story, all of it.