Heath Town and other signalling diversions

[5BarVT]

24 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Nor sure what you mean by long lengths of track, Andy. With standard 3ft or 1m lengths as your maximum, one dropper per rail per length is plenty for 4mm scale.

Interesting.  I’ve been using two on a 3’ rail and wondered whether that was overkill.

I’ve also heard suggestions of two per rail in ballasted areas owing to the difficulty of reinstating should one break or fall off.

In all my years of modelling I’ve only had wires fall off when they weren’t attached properly in the first place so quality control and proper inspection and test (physical as well as electrical) could manage that.  Breaking depends on how much stress is applied in use - again down to good design and installation.

NB Musing aloud there and not really coming to a conclusion!

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

3 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Interesting.  I’ve been using two on a 3’ rail and wondered whether that was overkill.

I’ve also heard suggestions of two per rail in ballasted areas owing to the difficulty of reinstating should one break or fall off.

In all my years of modelling I’ve only had wires fall off when they weren’t attached properly in the first place so quality control and proper inspection and test (physical as well as electrical) could manage that.  Breaking depends on how much stress is applied in use - again down to good design and installation.

NB Musing aloud there and not really coming to a conclusion!

Paul.

Some of my straight lengths are four feet long without a break (such as the platform and run-around. I think maybe having a dropper one foot in from each end is perhaps wise?

Andy

[Graham108]

37 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Some of my straight lengths are four feet long without a break (such as the platform and run-around. I think maybe having a dropper one foot in from each end is perhaps wise?

Andy

1 dropper either side of any connection; fishplate etc

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

Some of my straight lengths are four feet long without a break (such as the platform and run-around. I think maybe having a dropper one foot in from each end is perhaps wise?

Andy

Is there no rail joint in that length?

[Andy Keane]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Is there no rail joint in that length?

Good point - I will probably split it into a pair of two foot lengths with an expansion joint - still a single track block but then needing two feeds.

[5BarVT]

TESTING, TESTING

Todays progress was to check track polarity alignment across the baseboard joint.  Not right.  But after correcting the order of the wires in one connector it’s working fine.

So I used the section switch% to set it into profile mode and reprofiled a Heljan Hymek.  Worked beautifully.

(% A DC term used here for the benefit of one of my readers.)

 

Paul.

[5BarVT]

FAILED TESTING

My first selection for profiling was a Dapol Railcar.  It hasn’t been used for a while and creaked and groaned so much that I gave up.  I find that Heljan work straight out of the box, but Dapol creak and groan some not as bad as others but none a patch on Heljan.  Has anyone had success with Dapol and recommend a decoder (or decoder settings) that work?  (My decoders are all DCC Concepts of various types and have worked well on every manufacturer other than Dapol.)

Paul.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

FAILED TESTING

My first selection for profiling was a Dapol Railcar.  It hasn’t been used for a while and creaked and groaned so much that I gave up.  I find that Heljan work straight out of the box, but Dapol creak and groan some not as bad as others but none a patch on Heljan.  Has anyone had success with Dapol and recommend a decoder (or decoder settings) that work?  (My decoders are all DCC Concepts of various types and have worked well on every manufacturer other than Dapol.)

Paul.

Might be mechanical, Paul. Check the cardan shafts and final drives.

[john dew]

10 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

FAILED TESTING

My first selection for profiling was a Dapol Railcar.  It hasn’t been used for a while and creaked and groaned so much that I gave up.  I find that Heljan work straight out of the box, but Dapol creak and groan some not as bad as others but none a patch on Heljan.  Has anyone had success with Dapol and recommend a decoder (or decoder settings) that work?  (My decoders are all DCC Concepts of various types and have worked well on every manufacturer other than Dapol.)

Paul.

 

Hi Paul

 

CV 2 : 1  3: 1  4: 1  5: 110   6:   73   57 : 125             Lenz Gold 21 pin

 

Its not quite as smooth as the Heljan (which has a Zimo chip) but is quite acceptable. I could be mistaken but I think I had to clean the wheels thoroughly after some initial stalling.

 

 

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, john dew said:

 

Hi Paul

 

CV 2 : 1  3: 1  4: 1  5: 110   6:   73   57 : 125             Lenz Gold 21 pin

 

Its not quite as smooth as the Heljan (which has a Zimo chip) but is quite acceptable. I could be mistaken but I think I had to clean the wheels thoroughly after some initial stalling.

 

 

What program is that from please - looks impressive.

[5BarVT]

That’s RR&Co Traincontroller that both John and I use.  (Purchased before Brexit sent prices skywards!)

Paul.

[ISW]

40 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

That’s RR&Co Traincontroller that both John and I use.  (Purchased before Brexit sent prices skywards!)

Paul.

Paul & @Andy Keane,

 

According to https://www.freiwald.com/pages/rocomotion.htm (last paragraph) there is a 'free' version called 'Rocomotion'. However, I followed the link, but still could not find the download. Maybe someone else can locate it?

 

ADDENDUM:

Found it near the bottom of https://www.roco.cc/en/service/downloads/100-0-0-0-0-0-0-007005-0/index.html. However, the link doesn't seem to work.

 

Ian

Edited May 2, 2022 by ISW
Addendum added.

[Andy Keane]

I am quite keen to find a nice bit of software for programming DCC chips. YouChoos do supply one but it does not work with NCE.

[5BarVT]

For programming I use Decoder Pro, part of the JMRI suite.  Searching on your thread you seem to have got JMRI to talk to your NCE kit so Decoder Pro should be a doddle.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

Paul

yes I have JMRI up and running with my NCE kit but as yet have not tried programming decoders with it. I am not a great fan of the JMRI user interfaces but the stuff does work and its free of course. I will poke around and see what its like. So far I have been relying on the people at YouChoos to set my new decoders up but feel I really ought to have a go myself.

Andy

[5BarVT]

I don’t meddle with much but JMRI does a good job of sorting things into relevant groups and giving them real names.  If you insist on setting CV by CV you can, but I never have.

Give it a try - it’s easy to slurp data out of a chip.

Paul.

[ISW]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

yes I have JMRI up and running with my NCE kit but as yet have not tried programming decoders with it

Andy,

 

You'll find DecoderPro very easy to use, much easier than using the NCE PowerCab interface (but, of course you need a computer ...). I have exactly the same setup and much prefer to use DecoderPro. I use a very old laptop in the model railway room (with Windows Vista, remember that?). I only have 'simple' DCC needs, so only use it for setting the DCC code (4-digit), the acceleration / deceleration rates, and the motor values (start, middle, top) and the latter is only necessary with older (Lima, Triang-Hornby, etc) locos with, or without, CD-ROM motors. I don't mess about with individual CVs (yet?).

 

After a while you'll 'buy in' to the programme and start filling in all the database fields (model number, manufacturer, running number, etc). I even go to the extent of completing the photo of each of my locos (almost always downloaded off the Hatton's website).

 

I recently bought a rolling-road, and that has made the process of DCC chip reading / writing so much more reliable. I managed to find one on AliExpress for ~£35 delivered.

 

Ian

[5BarVT]

One trick that Decoder Pro helps with is when you want two different configurations on a loco.  For Traincontroller, deceleration has to be almost nothing and it’s best if acceleration is low too (i.e. instant response), but if you're running on another layout without automation you want realistic acceleration and deceleration.  With decoder pro each loco has its own xml file (JMRI manages that) but you can copy and modify.  So I have ‘1661’ as the file name with realistic values and ‘1661TC’ with low values.  Changing from one to the other is just a case of dumping it on the rolling road, selecting the desired config and saying Write.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

One trick that Decoder Pro helps with is when you want two different configurations on a loco.  For Traincontroller, deceleration has to be almost nothing and it’s best if acceleration is low too (i.e. instant response), but if you're running on another layout without automation you want realistic acceleration and deceleration.  With decoder pro each loco has its own xml file (JMRI manages that) but you can copy and modify.  So I have ‘1661’ as the file name with realistic values and ‘1661TC’ with low values.  Changing from one to the other is just a case of dumping it on the rolling road, selecting the desired config and saying Write.

Paul.

Interesting. Certainly my YouChoos set up decoder have what they call shunt mode which does much the same thing and is operated by a button push on my throttles. It means in the fiddle yard they can be accurately placed while in the station they run realistically. And I cabn see for auotmation that is critical.

[Andy Keane]

Paul

Have you any experience of these people: https://blocksignalling.co.uk/Train-Detection

I am still pondering how to detect positions on the scenic parts of the layout. I am very happy with my MERG lasers in the fiddle yard but feel they would be too intrusive in the station itself and so am wondering about infrared.

regards

ANdy

[5BarVT]

The individual channel devices are quite pricey (as any form of such device will be).  The 8 channel @ £37 is better for price, but the question is whether the output interface would work to other devices (it's designed for driving LEDs).

Is this for spot detection (i.e. final accurate stopping) or track section detection?

MERG had an article for something that was effectively the LDR detector with a 'normal' light level detector as an improvement over their simple LDR detector but I cant find it just at present.

Paul.

 

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

The individual channel devices are quite pricey (as any form of such device will be).  The 8 channel @ £37 is better for price, but the question is whether the output interface would work to other devices (it's designed for driving LEDs).

Is this for spot detection (i.e. final accurate stopping) or track section detection?

MERG had an article for something that was effectively the LDR detector with a 'normal' light level detector as an improvement over their simple LDR detector but I cant find it just at present.

Paul.

 

I will look that up. I quite like this: https://blocksignalling.co.uk/Train-Detection/BOD2-NS

It fits neatly under / into the track and I could use the LED outputs to drive inputs on my Arduinos that talk to NCE / JMRI.

But they are not cheap and I would need five.

Andy

[ISW]

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

But they are not cheap and I would need five.

 

Andy,

 

How about these at 10pcs for <£5 on AliExpress?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002740243203.html

 

Ian

[Andy Keane]

5 hours ago, ISW said:

Andy,

 

How about these at 10pcs for <£5 on AliExpress?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002740243203.html

 

Ian

That looks more like it - thanks!

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Now I look harder these are probably a reasonable compromise - I have used waveshre sensors before on Arduino projects and like them:

https://thepihut.com/products/infrared-reflective-sensor?variant=32211722666046&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpcOTBhCZARIsAEAYLuUj0wGpgLBZnonjzYemT1mFBBMhL4gFsY8cUqjWtLgX2Lp2Hg9jt5oaAn6wEALw_wcB