Coulsdon Works

[Bucoops]

20 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Drawings for these are in a Model Railway Constructor from sometime in 1963.   As Rich has said they did wander on some interregional services and via the M & GN.   Certainly used interchangeably with Gresleys, those being the short GE Area ones in the main so there was little capacity difference.   You could get away with a Gresley BT and/or CK with that set. 

 

Oh yes - April 1963.

[31A]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

This is my next O gauge project. 

 

 

It is a rake of four ex GER 50’ Holden corridor coaches built in 1907-1920. They were LNER diagrams 419E and 541E and are built from D&S kits. I acquired two which are beautifully made from a friend 3 weeks ago. And then I saw two more which were reasonably priced whilst at the Ellis Clark Summer Exhibition on Saturday. I knew they were similar but it turns out they are identical, so I think it makes quite a nice rake. The rake is lacking any First Class and needs a second brake. So I may add a standard Gresley BCK which I have spare to finish it off. 
 

Some shots of the individual coaches are below. The brake third is nicely finished.

 

…as is this TK which came in the original pair from my friend. I think this ones needs some more torpedo vents.

 

The two Ellis Clark coaches are less well painted. This one is OK but a slightly different shade to the first two and is lacking any decals. It also needs some vents.

 

The final ones has been weathered but I don’t like the washed out look it has given the coach brown. It also needs vents…there must have been a shortage!

 

I’m now trying to decide how to finish the rake off.  If any of the GER experts out there could help me with any of these questions, I’d be very grateful:

1. What sort of service would these have worked on in the 20’s and 30’s? In particular would they have strayed away from the ex GER patch at all?

2. If they stayed on the GER patch what would have hauled them - a D16 or B12, or maybe an N7 on outer suburban?

3. Would they have run mixed with Gresley coaches . I.e. can I use Gresley coaches to provide First Class?

4. I’m considering painting the weathered one in lined GER crimson gold to represent one yet to be re-liveried in early LNER days. Are there any good reference photos to show where the lining went?

5. Have I got too many TKs - should I sell one on to fund a composite or FK?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Andy

 

 

 

They're lovely looking models!  They look very well made.  Well done for getting hold of them.

 

As it happens I'm soon going to be making a similar All 3rd in 4mm scale using a Worsley Works 'scratch aid' kit, and I've been looking at pictures of the real ones.  Most pictures that I've come across were taken from ground or platform level, but from what I've seen so far the GE doesn't seem to have been at all keen on putting ventilators on the roofs!  In fact earlier today I was beginning to wonder whether some coaches only had them above the lavatory compartments.  Or perhaps they originally had more but they were omitted when roofs were repaired?  So quite possibly the arrangements on your models are correct.   Probably the instructions with the kits would have given details.

 

I don't think I'll have got the relevant "Constructor" but thanks for the pointer, I'll have a look when I get a moment.

 

[richard i]

Not sure on ger but gcr only had vents over the smoking compartments on its four wheelers, certainly to begin with. That might also have been the case with others.

having said that the Parker London extension stock had more things I needed to attach to the roof than I could almost fit on! 
richard 

[Darryl Tooley]

14 minutes ago, richard i said:

Not sure on ger but gcr only had vents over the smoking compartments on its four wheelers, certainly to begin with. That might also have been the case with others.

This was also how the GER did things, and on the type of TK that Andy has, it was typically three compartments at one end that were smoking compartments.

 

Composites were a bit different depending on the layout,  One of Andy's carriages is a CK; I couldn't say which diagram without some digging, but it's clear from the compartment-side window spacing that's what it is.

 

D

[Darryl Tooley]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

from what I've seen so far the GE doesn't seem to have been at all keen on putting ventilators on the roofs!  In fact earlier today I was beginning to wonder whether some coaches only had them above the lavatory compartments.

That tended to be the way with clerestory stock.  For the rest, at least in the twentieth century, and probably for a while before that, there were roof vents over smoking compartments only, which was typically about half of them, or getting on for that.

 

D

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said:

One of Andy's carriages is a CK; I couldn't say which diagram without some digging, but it's clear from the compartment-side window spacing that's what it is.

 

D

Thanks for pointing that out Darryl - a black mark for my powers of observation! I just counted the compartments and noted that each coach had seven, but I can now see the spacing on the weathered one is different. I suppose the 3rd class must have been very cramped to give extra room for First.

 

It doesn’t seem to match any of the diagrams shown in the Longworth book but is close to the most numerous D227-1E (just a couple of small panels different) so I’ll assume that’s what it is supposed to be.

I'm rather pleased as it now makes a more balanced rake.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

10 hours ago, 31A said:

 

They're lovely looking models!  They look very well made.  Well done for getting hold of them.

Thanks Steve. The Ellis Clark pair were buried at the back of two different pull out rummage drawers, so quite a satisfying find, especially when he knocked £20 off for taking the pair! 

10 hours ago, 31A said:

 

As it happens I'm soon going to be making a similar All 3rd in 4mm scale using a Worsley Works 'scratch aid' kit, and I've been looking at pictures of the real ones.  Most pictures that I've come across were taken from ground or platform level, but from what I've seen so far the GE doesn't seem to have been at all keen on putting ventilators on the roofs!  In fact earlier today I was beginning to wonder whether some coaches only had them above the lavatory compartments.  Or perhaps they originally had more but they were omitted when roofs were repaired?  So quite possibly the arrangements on your models are correct.   Probably the instructions with the kits would have given details.

 

I don't think I'll have got the relevant "Constructor" but thanks for the pointer, I'll have a look when I get a moment.

 

I’ll look forward to following your progress.

[Bucoops]

9 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said:

This was also how the GER did things, and on the type of TK that Andy has, it was typically three compartments at one end that were smoking compartments.

 

Composites were a bit different depending on the layout,  One of Andy's carriages is a CK; I couldn't say which diagram without some digging, but it's clear from the compartment-side window spacing that's what it is.

 

D

 

Good spot Darryl - the weathered one is a compo. Assuming it's D&S, Danny only did D227 - but in two variants. This looks to be the LNER modified one with the luggage compartment converted to a 1st class one, and the double doors replace with standard single doors.

 

Worsley do a D235 in 7mm, that still has the luggage compartment and a higher number of 1sts.

 

 

[31A]

Just now, thegreenhowards said:

I’ll look forward to following your progress.

 

Thanks Andy; don't hold your breath though, it's a little way down the list of coaches for Peterborough North!

[thegreenhowards]

13 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Drawings for these are in a Model Railway Constructor from sometime in 1963.   As Rich has said they did wander on some interregional services and via the M & GN.   Certainly used interchangeably with Gresleys, those being the short GE Area ones in the main so there was little capacity difference.   You could get away with a Gresley BT and/or CK with that set. 

 

I do like that washed out colour as a vehicle needing repainting or at the end of its life, but that may not be appropriate for the era you're looking to run them in.  The colour is a very moveable feast - Adrian Marks once sent me two pictures of the same vehicle taken on the same day, one of each side, and they're completely different shades of brown.

 

Your best bet for painting information and photographs are the GE Society Journals (available on CD - look for John Watling's series of articles on these vehicles) and Dr Ian C Allen's photographic collections.   Some of these vehicles were either varnished teak or scumbled as well, I have a photograph.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

Looks like I need to join the GER society!

 

Andy

[Bucoops]

5 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for pointing that out Darryl - a black mark for my powers of observation! I just counted the compartments and noted that each coach had seven, but I can now see the spacing on the weathered one is different. I suppose the 3rd class must have been very cramped to give extra room for First.

 

It doesn’t seem to match any of the diagrams shown in the Longworth book but is close to the most numerous D227-1E (just a couple of small panels different) so I’ll assume that’s what it is supposed to be.

I'm rather pleased as it now makes a more balanced rake.

 

Andy

 

I would definitely say it's a 227. Some of Longworth's diagrams don't quite have the panelling correct - not a criticism as unless you have access to a photo or accurate drawings there was a lot of potential for variation.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Rich,

 

I see that the third class compartments are 6’1” wide. Do you have the equivalent diagram for the all third D419 to see how much they squeezed the poor third class passengers?

 

Andy

[Darryl Tooley]

8 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

It doesn’t seem to match any of the diagrams shown in the Longworth book but is close to the most numerous D227-1E (just a couple of small panels different) so I’ll assume that’s what it is supposed to be.

It was the convention at Stratford not to show panelling on the diagrams, and the panelling you see in Longworth is somebody's best guess, and not always a terribly good one.

 

D

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Rich,

 

I see that the third class compartments are 6’1” wide. Do you have the equivalent diagram for the all third D419 to see how much they squeezed the poor third class passengers?

 

Andy

 

No problem. I think this diagram has been altered late in life as there's far too few numbers showing.

 

Compartment size is the same - just one less lavatory to allow it.

 

 

And the BTK:

 

[thegreenhowards]

Some of you will remember the lovely J69 I built from a 3D printed kit produced by my friend @woko. Well the trouble with 3D printed kits is that they can be fragile…especially if you’re a stupid oaf who puts his rolling road on a bookshelf and then knocks it off while searching for a book!

 

 

I’m happy to report that it wasn’t a complete write off. I found most of the parts and have glued it back together. I had to replace some bits with brass which is no bad thing. 
 

It now looks like this (the roof is ok - just not attached).

 

 

I now need to try to blend in the paintwork as I don’t want to have to redo all my lining. I think it may need a heavier weathering than before!

 

 

[woko]

oh no Andy!!!!

Looks like you have done a pretty good job of fixing it, especially after such a drop! The issue with these resin prints is they are a lot more fragile than Brass, what do you need printed to fix it? Do you need a new one, you can always paint it GER Black, i don't believe they were lined ;) 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Here is my latest kit built loco now commissioned for use on our club O gauge, Smithfield.

 

 

 

 

It’s an LNER J6 from an unknown kit which I bought on eBay. It’s nicely built and runs with a large mashima driving an ABC helical gearbox - very smooth.

 

It was in good condition when it arrived but in BR livery and with a few paint chips. So I’ve renumbered it, changed the couplings, added lamps and crew and weathered it. I’m really pleased with how she’s come out. I’ve also fitted a Zimo sound decoder with a large speaker in the tender which, I think, sounds great. If you want to listen there’s a video here but you will need decent speakers on your PC to do it justice.

 

 

Andy

 

[jwealleans]

Who can't love a J6?

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve finished repairing my J69. On the plus side it’s made me replace some 3D printed bits with brass which I should of done to start with. Things like cab handrails, buffers and vac pipes. However, I had to give it a good weather to cover up the uneven bits and there’s still a crack visible on the right hand side if you look closely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, I think she’ll do as a layout loco and will be pressed into service as station pilot on our club layout, Smithfield at our running session next week. But my friend @wokois considering improving his cad of this and reprinting it in which case I may be tempted to do another  - perhaps in GER livery next time. 
 

Andy

 

 

[woko]

Looking so much healthier now since the dreaded drop! I will most certainly have another bash at printing some improved versions of these, perhaps after the N7 ;)

 

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve realised the weathering on both the J6 and J69 looks pretty crude in these photos. I assure you, it looks fine under normal light and with a (my) human eye. I think it’s the combination of bright daylight (by the french windows) and digital photography which makes it look streaky.

[great northern]

7 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’ve realised the weathering on both the J6 and J69 looks pretty crude in these photos. I assure you, it looks fine under normal light and with a (my) human eye. I think it’s the combination of bright daylight (by the french windows) and digital photography which makes it look streaky.

Cameras are congenital liars Andy. I think someone in the USA learned all he knows from them.

[thegreenhowards]

34 minutes ago, great northern said:

Cameras are congenital liars Andy. I think someone in the USA learned all he knows from them.

Thanks Gilbert. Sadly I think that in this case cameras lay the truth out only too clearly - truth which an analogue eyeball can process away.

[thegreenhowards]

Yesterday I went to the SEGOG running day. They have a good test track which gives my O gauge locos a chance to stretch their legs in winter (when my garden railway is packed away).

 

I attach a video which was show’s my J6 and J50 running on a nice long goods train and showing that they can pull a fair load - I do like the MSC helical gearboxes! The wagons are mainly Parkside kits and represent the majority of my O gauge big four goods stock.

 

The video finished with a still photo of my C12 on @woko’s 3d printed Howlden 6 wheelers. Sadly the C12 only lasted a couple of laps before stopping in a cloud of smoke….so no video and a post Xmas repair to investigate!

 

Sorry for the slightly grainy video - it was the shortest day and raining so light was very poor.

 

Andy

Edited December 22, 2022 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

I got sidetracked from building my Glenfinnan layout this afternoon as I was going through a set of locos which our club has obtained from an estate loft clearance.  One of these was a Hornby Terrier, Rolvedon. This reminded me that I had an old Wills(?)  J69 body lurking in one of my projects drawers. I built this in my teenage years but I don’t think it ever had a chassis - if it did, I have no idea what happened to it! Now I have produced a J69 in O gauge using a 3D printed body resting on a Dapol Terrier chassis, so I thought , why not do the same in 00?  

 

It fitted remarkably easily, with just a little white metal to remove.  I’ve attached it using a couple of plasticard pads on the bottom of the white metal and self tapping screws. So, after two hours work, we have a working J69.

 

 

 

 

It’s looking a bit rough as befits a body which has been knocking around for 40+ years. I will have to source some steps,  buffers and some detailing parts and find a crew to hide the fact that there is no cab detail. I then need to think about either tidying the paint or redoing it - probably the former. As for an identity, I think a few of these acted as pilots at GN stations, so i will chose open of those.

 

It’s nowhere near the standard that Accurascale’s will be, but their’s provided me with a kick up the backside so that, after a 40 year wait, I have a working J69.

 

Andy

 

PS Anyone want a Hornby Rolvedon body?!