Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

Phil - the Shapeways overhead isn't a problem in this case as James Train Parts group postage arrangement fixes that. The products that Corbs linked to are so far the only one I'd be sourcing via Shapeways. But yes, generally speaking I used to buy a fair number of things from Shapeways but have stopped due to the outrageous increases in postage. These days I am usually able to go to the maker direct for a far cheaper price - some of them on RMWeb.

David - those do look good, though the swing system behind the headstock appears to require a fair bit of room. Of course if the NEM pocket is on the coach bogie it's no problem. With 4-wheel coaches they are obviously shorter anyway so swing less and the wagon style base of the NEM pocket has a flexible arm on it.

Thanks to everyone for the input, its appreciated. I've ordered a test pack from James Train Parts and will also send off for a pack of the plain bar couplings from Yves.

I've just noticed that the company Corbs linked to - James Train Parts - makes a very simple straight link:

https://jamestrainparts.com/shop/couplings/oo-gauge-nem-drawbar-coach-couplings/

Edited October 27, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Pacific231G]

On 27/10/2021 at 11:38, Martin S-C said:

David - those do look good, though the swing system behind the headstock appears to require a fair bit of room. Of course if the NEM pocket is on the coach bogie it's no problem. With 4-wheel coaches they are obviously shorter anyway so swing less and the wagon style base of the NEM pocket has a flexible arm on it.

Thanks to everyone for the input, its appreciated. I've ordered a test pack from James Train Parts and will also send off for a pack of the plain bar couplings from Yves.

I'm not sure what the fairly advanced elongation system shown in Yves' photo is  but any such system as fitted to most modern stock would work.

Even without elongation the NEM boxes would need some swing (the amount depending on the pointwork they have to traverse) and if it's not a close coupling "elongation" unit the buffers would need to be further apart. Fixed NEM boxes mounted on bogies with a fixed bar would surely give you effectively a rigid eight wheel truck that would struggle with most model pointwork.

Quite a lot of my own older stock (mainly Jouef) is retro fitted with fixed NEM boxes but I use these with Kadee NEM couplers which were designed for that. They work OK with NEM "dunny seat" hinged loop couplers (ghastly things)  and would with tension lock types but when I fitted a train of four wheel coaches with Roco close couplers that were designed for swinging boxes they simply derailed over points.

I've also just noticed these from Hornby  part no X6580 and from Lendons of Cardiff £4.80 for a pack of ten!

I think though that they're for 2BIL sets so may be too short for buffered stock.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Pacific231G
typos

[Martin S-C]

Does anyone know what colour the roofs of GN iron gunpowder vans were when new? I'm building the Ratio kit and have no info on GN wagons. Obviously after a few months they'd be "grot" colour but prior to that...?

[Caley Jim]

Can't give you definative answer, but most van roofs were covered with canvas which was then painted with white lead paint. That, as you say, quickly went through grey to almost black as a result of the formation of lead sulphides through reaction with the sulphur compounds in smoke.

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

53 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Can't give you definative answer, but most van roofs were covered with canvas which was then painted with white lead paint. That, as you say, quickly went through grey to almost black as a result of the formation of lead sulphides through reaction with the sulphur compounds in smoke.

 

But this is an iron mink knock-off, so it's got a tin roof. (Sorry, sheet iron.) 

 

The photo in Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1, p. 69, shows a similar but more complex livery, with the solebars, headstocks, and body framing picked out in a darker colour, possibly red. The roof is, however, an all-over light colour, probably body colour. This van, No. 13207, is from a batch built by Charles Roberts, probably a maker's photo. The number on the Ratio wagon appears to be 1899, which is the number of a van from the same batch. Possibly the livery was simplified when they were repainted by the GNR. Possibly @chris p bacon may know.

 

You should remove the ventilator hoods from the ends unless you want an explosion.

[Martin S-C]

Dapol made an N gauge one a while ago that had a white roof, though I am not happy about following RTR manufacturer's liveries all the time. I'll go with white though and suitably dirty it down.

Thank you for the remark about the end vents. I shall carve them off. Their shape isn't solid, but a hollow deformation in the injection-moulded end so I will have to insert a blanking piece into the resulting hole.

[Compound2632]

On 27/10/2021 at 11:36, Pacific231G said:

 

 

@Pacific231G, drifting a little off topic but I'm intrigued by the close coupling mechanism on those HO 4-wheel wagons. I had independently come up with the idea of something similar for close coupling a set of 4 or 6 wheel carriages. What make of wagons are these; do you know of a source for the coupling mechanism units?

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

You should remove the ventilator hoods from the ends unless you want an explosion.

So an Iron Mink with vents for perishable goods and gunpowder without?

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

So an Iron Mink with vents for perishable goods and gunpowder without?

 

That is correct. Many gunpowder vans were built for other railways than the GWR but based on the iron mink design - GNR, LNWR, Caledonian, Cambrian... The GWR also had some, later converted to ordinary merchandise vans. All these were without end vents. Also, they had flat sheeted doors rather than the recessed panels of the standard design - a further point against that Ratio kit. I'm afraid this is only a photo of a model, but it serves to illustrate: http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Modelling/g3wagons.php?display_base_mod_photo=4wmlwd04301.

 

The GWR "Improvised Gunpowder Vans" converted from standard iron minks had the end ventilator hood removed and the ventilation holes plated over. They also had the outside-sheeted doors.

 

I'm not sure about ones used for bagged cement:

 

 

[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways lnwrlave4062a.]

Edited October 29, 2021 by Compound2632

[Nick C]

Here's a freshly restored one, on the MHR.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

@Pacific231G, drifting a little off topic but I'm intrigued by the close coupling mechanism on those HO 4-wheel wagons. I had independently come up with the idea of something similar for close coupling a set of 4 or 6 wheel carriages. What make of wagons are these; do you know of a source for the coupling mechanism units?

I'd be looking at trying something by Keen Systems.

 

https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I'd be looking at trying something by Keen Systems.

 

Ah yes, I have used those. What I had forgotten is that they are independent of the rotation of the bogie, unlike the cam system used by Bachmann and Hornby, and hence are in principle suitable for non-bogie stock.

[Pacific231G]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

@Pacific231G, drifting a little off topic but I'm intrigued by the close coupling mechanism on those HO 4-wheel wagons. I had independently come up with the idea of something similar for close coupling a set of 4 or 6 wheel carriages. What make of wagons are these; do you know of a source for the coupling mechanism units?

No idea I'm afraid but they look as if they came with the wagons rather than being retro fitted so probably not much help. YDModels does have close coupling units in its catalogue (YDModels.com then look for H0 systemes d'attelage)  but they look nothing like these. One point worth remembering is that the height of the floor of a British 00 wagon will likely be higher than that of an H0 wagon. Though the buffer/drawbar height is  the same in Britain as in the rest of Europe (It's a UIC standard)  the scale of 00 is of course larger. However, the NEM  standard for the height and size of coupler pockets is the same (it's also the same for S scale)   AFAIK Keen Systems CCUs are designed to be fitted beneatth the floor of 00 coaches (there's no mention of wagons on their website) and set the coupler pocket at the correct height and, in the straight position, diistance back from  the buffer heads.

[Martin S-C]

As far as I'm aware Keen Systems CCUs were always and only designed for bogie coaches to give a scale or close to scale distance between vehicles on the straight yet allow them to negotiate train set curves. I had forgotten about them entirely and will buy a pack for test fitting on some of my stock to deal with both the permanent coupling and scale separation questions. I know they are successful and effective as they've been around for years and I recall seeing them on display at a show what feels like several decades ago.

EDIT:

Following on from this post I have now finished the pair of milk vans that are inspired by GW O.1 Siphons. I have decided to represent the pair as clean and fresh from the (re)paint shops since the white roofs appeal so much. There's a small amount of dirt below the footboards and a light dry brush of dusty grey-brown to highlight the framing and metalwork.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Martin S-C

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

As far as I'm aware Keen Systems CCUs were always and only designed for bogie coaches

They're fixed to the body so there's no reason why they shouldn't be equally as effective on non-bogie stock. As with all close-coupling units, they will work better with a rigid connection between vehicles.

[Martin S-C]

While waiting for various packs of couplings to arrive I finished the GN GPV. I trimmed off the end vents without inflicting too much damage but chose to leave the incorrect style doors. I understand the corners of the body are not quite right (though to my eye looking at photos I cannot quite see the difference), but as I consider these minor items in the scheme of a fictional railway I'll let it slide. Just this once...

Before weathering. The white roof was not a success I think.


And dirtyish...

[Martin S-C]

As Neil is very busy with other projects until the new year I have been doodling away on a few other things...

 

ex-Taff Vale 32ft 6ins bogie bolster, taken into GW service as MACAW G but one of them was bought by the NMGS in 1917:






An NMGS built express freight van for high value goods and based on the design of a GWR 40ft bogie milk van. The NMGS had plans to move towards more fitted bogie freight vehicles in the 1920s, including steel opens for bulk minerals but the grouping finished those ideas.
























3D print GER 10T brake, pressed into service as the WELRs second (and last) brake van. This vehicle is used on the limestone and quarry traffic has developed an unhappy dusty patina... yes I had an unhappy reaction between the satin varnish and the acrylic thinners...












A few brick company opens. Nothing special just Dapol & Hornby weathered.








and one Oxford Rail Scottish wagon


Another F&E Poole & Co wagon joins my growing fleet of these as No.210.


For some reason I have quite a few of this grouping of collieries. I'm slowly working my way through them (some details, number changes and weathering).


And a random collection of quarry, stone and lime wagons.






I have a few of these Hornby ones. I will either retire them or alter them to make 4-plank wagons so that the side hinges make sense. Its a pity Hornby made that design howler as otherwise they are quite nice models, though the HMS Warspite sized brake gear really needs replacing






A Lilleshall open based on the recent photo of these we discussed. I enjoyed going to town on this one.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Very nicely done, some excellent examples.

[16Brunel]

The WELR brake van's finish looks fine to me - just call it serendipity

[Martin S-C]

Thanks. Though I think the white bloom is a little extreme. I'm using the limestone trains allocation excuse

After I week or three I'll go back to it and see if I can lessen the effect by gently rubbing at it with fibreglass pencil or just a cocktail stick. I don't want to repaint it so if the paint starts to come off I'll leave it, but I think it needs a little bit of reducing.

I also only just realised the bolster wagon needs an additional upright in each corner They are in the kit - I thought they were spares. Another one to revisit in due course.

[Nick C]

I had a similar problem with a batch of wagons a couple of months ago, in that case with Humbrol matt varnish - I guess the tin had been kicking around too long. They're currently sitting on a shelf waiting for me to decide what to do about them...

Edited November 15, 2021 by Nick C
speelung

[ianathompson]

18 minutes ago, Nick C said:

I had a similar problem with a batch of wagons a couple of months ago, in that case with Humbrol matt varnish - I guess the tin had been kicking around too long. They're currently sitting on a shelf waiting for me to decide what to do about them...

 

I have had problems with Humbrol paints in recent times, as I have documented on my various threads.

 

The conclusion that I, and other people, have come to, is that some of the formulas have been changed since they were taken over by the (American?) company thet bought them out.

 

I am rather suspicious as to what is going to come out of one of their tins nowadays.

 

Ian T

[Regularity]

I was under the impression that Hornby had bought Humbrol?

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I was under the impression that Hornby had bought Humbrol?

 

In 2006, at which time Humbrol also owned the Airfix brand.

[Martin S-C]

The varnish I used was Testors Dullcote. Its an old can getting near the end so I wonder if its past its use by date? I've had no adverse reactions between it and acrylic thinners before. Of course it could be something else like a temperature or humidity thing or the paint I was thinning... lots of variables.