Freightliner Prototype Flat Wagon

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been detailing my Hornby Freightliner flats of which I have nineteen and decided that three sets of five would be just the right number and was wondering what to do with my four spares.

 

After looking through various books and websites I decided to modify the four spares into the first of the then new type of Freightliner wagons built Shildon in 1964, numbers B601001/2 Outers and B602001/2 Inners.

 

Sites I have used are,

 

1. LTSV Wagon - Profiles;   https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_018.php

 

2. Barrowmore's wagon diagrams;   http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf.

 

The LTSV site gives details of building dates and numbering and the Barrowmore site shews a general arrangement diagram for both types of wagon with leading dimensions.

 

The book, Freightliner - Life & Times Series shews a ten foot box on the inner end of an outer wagon on page 99 and a 30 foot box on an inner wagon on page 100.

 

This first photo is of the position and arrangement of the cuts in the donor vehicle. I have removed the webs between the cross members to allow for a more accurate representation of the skeletal form of the originals.

 

EDIT:

 

Please note that there is an error in the Barrowmore drawings which I did not pick up and the description for the conversion of the inner wagons shewn immediately below is incorrect. The remedial repair to my mistake in following the wrong measurements is described further on in a separate post within this thread. The bonus of this is that it actually makes the conversion of the inner wagons easier than my first attempt described below.

 

Apologies for being a twerp !

 

 

After squaring the ends of the cuts up with a file lined the sides up with a steel rule and glued them up on a flat surface. After the glued frames had cured I added strips of .030" plasticard to make up the deeper side frames that the originals have over the model and the trussing to replace where the webbing of the original model had been cut out.

 

 

Some head stock reinforcing plates for the buffer ends of the outer wagons were made from .080" plasticard, these are 29mm X 12mm with a 45* chamfer on one end. The next job was to cut out head stock and buffer beams that were then glued to the ends of the wagons and at the same time added some vertical trusses between the cross members from .030" X .030" strip.

 

 

 

 

Here is the four wagon rake both light and loaded with some rather tatty continers.

 

 

 

I shall order some oval buffers and look at how I might fit some Keen system Buckeye heads that I have spare to the wagons in due course along with some details such as tanks, brake wheels and filling and painting.

 

Gibbo.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Gibbo675

[Fat Controller]

An interesting project; funnily, as 40' and 45' boxes seem to have become the majority for international traffic, shorter platforms are coming back into fashion, as a means of increasing loads for a given train length.

[russ p]

What became of these vehicles? I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been detailing my Hornby Freightliner flats of which I have nineteen and decided that three sets of five would be just the right number and was wondering what to do with my four spares.

 

After looking through various books and websites I decided to modify the four spares into the first of the then new type of Freightliner wagons built Shildon in 1964, numbers B601001/2 Outers and B602001/2 Inners.

 

Sites I have used are,

 

1. LTSV Wagon - Profiles;   https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_018.php

 

2. Barrowmore's wagon diagrams;   http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf.

 

The LTSV site gives details of building dates and numbering and the Barrowmore site shews a general arrangement diagram for both types of wagon with leading dimensions.

 

The book, Freightliner - Life & Times Series shews a ten foot box on the inner end of an outer wagon on page 99 and a 30 foot box on an inner wagon on page 100.

 

This first photo is of the position and arrangement of the cuts in the donor vehicle. I have removed the webs between the cross members to allow for a more accurate representation of the skeletal form of the originals.

 

DSCF0326.JPG

 

After squaring the ends of the cuts up with a file lined the sides up with a steel rule and glued them up on a flat surface. After the glued frames had cured I added strips of .030" plasticard to make up the deeper side frames that the originals have over the model and the trussing to replace where the webbing of the original model had been cut out.

 

DSCF0328.JPG

 

Some head stock reinforcing plates for the buffer ends of the outer wagons were made from .080" plasticard, these are 29mm X 12mm with a 45* chamfer on one end. The next job was to cut out head stock and buffer beams that were then glued to the ends of the wagons and at the same time added some vertical trusses between the cross members from .030" X .030" strip.

 

DSCF0334.JPG

 

DSCF0330.JPG

 

DSCF0331.JPG

 

Here is the four wagon rake both light and loaded with some rather tatty continers.

 

DSCF0332.JPG

 

DSCF0333.JPG

 

I shall order some oval buffers and look at how I might fit some Keen system Buckeye heads that I have spare to the wagons in due course along with some details such as tanks, brake wheels and filling and painting.

 

Gibbo.

Having just uploaded all of the above I've just noticed that the Barrowmore diagram for the Inner Wagons is incorrectly dimensioned in that the wheel base and total length are three feet too long at 35' 0" and 45' 9", the dimensions ought to be as follows wheel base 32' 0", total length 42' 9".

 

I am currently altering the first of the inner wagons, fortunately I have some spare bits of off cut to remedially repair the Inner Wagons.

 

The discovery of the correct dimensions make the conversion easier and I shall describe this further as soon as.

 

Gibbo.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Gibbo675

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been detailing my Hornby Freightliner flats of which I have nineteen and decided that three sets of five would be just the right number and was wondering what to do with my four spares.

 

After looking through various books and websites I decided to modify the four spares into the first of the then new type of Freightliner wagons built Shildon in 1964, numbers B601001/2 Outers and B602001/2 Inners.

 

Sites I have used are,

 

1. LTSV Wagon - Profiles;   https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_018.php

 

2. Barrowmore's wagon diagrams;   http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf.

 

The LTSV site gives details of building dates and numbering and the Barrowmore site shews a general arrangement diagram for both types of wagon with leading dimensions.

 

The book, Freightliner - Life & Times Series shews a ten foot box on the inner end of an outer wagon on page 99 and a 30 foot box on an inner wagon on page 100.

 

This first photo is of the position and arrangement of the cuts in the donor vehicle. I have removed the webs between the cross members to allow for a more accurate representation of the skeletal form of the originals.

 

DSCF0326.JPG

 

After squaring the ends of the cuts up with a file lined the sides up with a steel rule and glued them up on a flat surface. After the glued frames had cured I added strips of .030" plasticard to make up the deeper side frames that the originals have over the model and the trussing to replace where the webbing of the original model had been cut out.

 

DSCF0328.JPG

 

Some head stock reinforcing plates for the buffer ends of the outer wagons were made from .080" plasticard, these are 29mm X 12mm with a 45* chamfer on one end. The next job was to cut out head stock and buffer beams that were then glued to the ends of the wagons and at the same time added some vertical trusses between the cross members from .030" X .030" strip.

 

DSCF0334.JPG

 

DSCF0330.JPG

 

DSCF0331.JPG

 

Here is the four wagon rake both light and loaded with some rather tatty continers.

 

DSCF0332.JPG

 

DSCF0333.JPG

 

I shall order some oval buffers and look at how I might fit some Keen system Buckeye heads that I have spare to the wagons in due course along with some details such as tanks, brake wheels and filling and painting.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Folks,

 

I have just re-worked the first of the Inner Wagons after discovering the Barrowmore diagram to be incorrectly dimensioned.

 

Fortunately there were some suitable off cuts to splice into the wagon once I had cut it into two pieces for the second time today. There two pictures show the drawings I made up from the Barrowmore diagram. It should be noted that the top drawing in the photograph should be ignored and instead use the bottom drawing for both the Inner and Outer Wagons the difference between the two being that the Inner Wagons have two ends with a 20mm over hang from the bogie pivot and the Outer Wagons have 20mm at one end and 33mm at the other end.

 

 

This photograph shews the newly modified Inner wagon between an Outer Wagon at the top of the photo and the incorrect Inner Wagon at the bottom.

 

 

If I had done my sums by looking at all of the dimensions on the Barrowmore diagram and comparing the with the information on the LTSV site I wouldn't have cocked it up !

 

Gibbo.

[TangoOscarMike]

That looks like some good precise work. I can never cut plasticard (or anything else) with the precision I would like.

 

How do you feel about the strength of the join?

 

[Gibbo675]

That looks like some good precise work. I can never cut plasticard (or anything else) with the precision I would like.

 

How do you feel about the strength of the join?

Hi Tom,

 

The strength of the join is fine, first when I cut the section I cut it a slight long and then file the ends back to length which gives a good square flat surface to take the cement also when I join the pieces I apply as much pressure as I feel is reasonable with out causing flex which makes sure that the dissolved plastic of the joint interface is fully contacted and then I leave it to cure for about as long as it takes to brew up and look out of the window !?!? The other thing that assists the joint is that they are strapped joints because the section of the wagon is too shallow and has a .030" plasticard strip cemented to the underside of the sole bars which gives a lot of extra support.

In theory a properly cemented plastic joint ought to be a strong as a moulded component, granted it rarely is but even 80% of a moulded component is good enough and with the strapping is plenty good enough.

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

What became of these vehicles? I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one

Hi Russ,

 

I don't actually know what happened to this prototype set other than it was built in 1964 at Shildon and that it was used to trial the carriage and securing system of the then new aluminium boxes. I Presume that it went into use along side the various converted Lowmac and other types of flat wagon that had been altered for use with the new boxes and also that it was indeed the basis for the later FFA/FGA wagons that shared very similar construction techniques. The set may well have worked along side the FFA/FGA sets latterly although this is just a guess upon my part.

I have looked for photographic evidence of which routes it worked and indeed when it may have been withdrawn but found nothing other than what I have so far posted within this thread, any information would be most welcome.

 

Gibbo.

[Nile]

An interesting project; funnily, as 40' and 45' boxes seem to have become the majority for international traffic, shorter platforms are coming back into fashion, as a means of increasing loads for a given train length.

 

Maybe the Irish were right with their shorter wagons. The one in my sig. is a 47 footer.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is the latest exciting installment of the prototype Freightliner wagon build.

 

This evenings work was to fit the couplings between the wagons and the buffers to the ends of the Outer Wagons.

 

For the intermediate wagons I was going to use some Keen system Buckeyes but I was not altogether happy with the shape of the shank which would not have passed through the head stocks of the wagons. Fortunately four more Dapol Presflos arrived and I spotted that within the kit is a coupling that with a bit of cutting and filling could be made to look enough like a Buckeye for my liking with the bonus that they are sort of free as the last lot went in the bin still attached to the sprues.

 

 

The first job was to mark out drill and file a slot 2mm X 8mm in the head stocks 1mm down from the top edge for the coupling to pass through. the next job was to drill a 1/16" hole 10mm back from the face of the head stocks to accept the pivot pin for the coupling.

 

 

 

 

The buffers are Comet oval LMS type and after tidying up with a file were set at 14mm from the rail head to centre height and spaced at 22mm. A 1mm location hole was drilled and the buffers glued into position with cyanacrylate.

 

 

Here are the latest two photos of the rake one shewing the Prototype Set coupled up together and one shewing it juxtaposed for comparison with the later standard FFA and FGA wagon types.

 

 

 

The next job will be to source some hooks for the buffer ends of the Outer Wagons along with air tanks and brake hand wheels.

 

Gibbo.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Gibbo675

[russ p]

Was it air braked? For some reason thought it was vacuum

[Gibbo675]

Was it air braked? For some reason thought it was vacuum

Hi Russ,

 

The wagons were certainly air braked for the diagram in the Barrowmore link both above and repeated below states automatic air brake and hand wheel, also in the book "Freightliner-Life and Times" there is a photograph on page 99 where you can clearly make out the two air pipes on the head stock.

 

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight1Issue.pdf

 

The two wagon types discussed are about a third of the way down the page.

 

Gibbo. 

[Fat Controller]

Was it air braked? For some reason thought it was vacuum

There were some vac-braked bogie Conflats, based on Boplate Es, built for the 'Condor' services; when these were superseded by Freightliner's services, they went over to the Cobra coke trains from Derwenthaugh, and then salt and potash traffic from Boulby.

[russ p]

There were some vac-braked bogie Conflats, based on Boplate Es, built for the 'Condor' services; when these were superseded by Freightliner's services, they went over to the Cobra coke trains from Derwenthaugh, and then salt and potash traffic from Boulby.

I remember those I used to work them on boulby

[Gibbo675]

There were some vac-braked bogie Conflats, based on Boplate Es, built for the 'Condor' services; when these were superseded by Freightliner's services, they went over to the Cobra coke trains from Derwenthaugh, and then salt and potash traffic from Boulby.

HI FC,

 

The wagons you mention are also in the same Barrowmore diagram book previously noted and there are photographs of them on page 110 and 111 of Freightiner Life and Times and of course Paul Barlett's site which offer much better aspect;

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bogiecondor/h6E02C3F6#h6bd5db1a

 

The potash containers used for the Boulby trains are quite a strange shape and there is a photo of one within this gallery;

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cobra4whpfa

 

Gibbo.

[MGR Hooper!]

Nice work on those. I look forward to seeing more!

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I was rained off from working today but the adavntage being that I have been busy with toy trains !

 

The couplings have been slightly modified so that they will not uncouple when propelled and also look a bit better as they have been reduced in size.

 

First I cut off  the ends of the coupling so that the hook's return is about in line with the shank and then I glued some retaining plates for want of a term to prevent the hook's return becoming uncoupled. The retaining plates are made from .030" plasticard and are 5mm X 3mm with a 3mm X 1mm notch to cope the shank of the hook. The experimental hooks are shewn below;

 

 

 

The wagons themselves have been sprayed with two coat of Halfords matt black and the bogies have been finally secure by having their collars glued onto the bogie pivots. The bogies need a once over with some black paint but this may be done more easily while attached to the wagon as I will get less paint on my fingers that way.

 

 

Here are the painted wagons, two with boxes and two without, for those that have been following they are of the same batch as the rather tatty ones earlier in the thread which are also going through the works at the moment.

 

I have not fitted air tanks as I have not yet found a photograph that shews well enough either the size or position of them. If all else fails I shall replicate the positioning in line with that  of the FFA/FGA wagons which is known to me. Brake hand wheels will be fitted when they arrive sometime next week along with a coupling hook for the buffered ends.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Gibbo675

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is a photo with some unusual containers, they are the Irish Ferry service containers and have a BR blue stripe instead of the more usual red stripe.

 

 

Here is a link to my other Freightliner based thread;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136258-freightliner-containers-with-blue-stripes/

[Satan's Goldfish]

This reminds me, I was once looking into other prototype container flats that had a deck slightly lower than the standard FFA/FGA at the time. There was a pair for carrying 2x 2ft containers each, and a pair for carrying 3x 20ft containers each that looked very similar to modern spine wagons. The 3x 20ft pair ran on 3 axle bogies too. Would have loved to a set, but getting the bogies to work on a tight enough radius was challenging. Supposedly they were used a lot in Scotland as tail end wagons with mixed trains on remote lines, but I've never seen pictures of them 'out in the wild'.

 

Would be very interesting to know how long the prototype FFA/FGA were in use for, they're a nice little set for space restrained modellers.

[Gibbo675]

8 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

This reminds me, I was once looking into other prototype container flats that had a deck slightly lower than the standard FFA/FGA at the time. There was a pair for carrying 2x 2ft containers each, and a pair for carrying 3x 20ft containers each that looked very similar to modern spine wagons. The 3x 20ft pair ran on 3 axle bogies too. Would have loved to a set, but getting the bogies to work on a tight enough radius was challenging. Supposedly they were used a lot in Scotland as tail end wagons with mixed trains on remote lines, but I've never seen pictures of them 'out in the wild'.

 

Would be very interesting to know how long the prototype FFA/FGA were in use for, they're a nice little set for space restrained modellers.

Hi There,

 

I am unaware of the wagons you describe, do you have any photographs or links to them at all ?

 

Gibbo.

[montyburns56]

15 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

This reminds me, I was once looking into other prototype container flats that had a deck slightly lower than the standard FFA/FGA at the time. There was a pair for carrying 2x 2ft containers each, and a pair for carrying 3x 20ft containers each that looked very similar to modern spine wagons. The 3x 20ft pair ran on 3 axle bogies too. Would have loved to a set, but getting the bogies to work on a tight enough radius was challenging. Supposedly they were used a lot in Scotland as tail end wagons with mixed trains on remote lines, but I've never seen pictures of them 'out in the wild'.

 

Would be very interesting to know how long the prototype FFA/FGA were in use for, they're a nice little set for space restrained modellers.

 

Do you mean this?

 

 

[Satan's Goldfish]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi There,

 

I am unaware of the wagons you describe, do you have any photographs or links to them at all ?

 

Gibbo.

 

Found my old thread altalthough the Yahoo link no longer works so I may need to do some hunting (knowing me, I will have saved all the info in a file somewhere on a computer...) 

 

 

4 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Do you mean this?

 

 

 

No, that's a single (FJA or FJB at a guess) rather than a double set. Already knocked up an FJA when bored a couple of years ago

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Do you mean this?

 

 

That's an FJB, basically a FGA with buffer-beams and draw-gear at both end, along with a through vac pipe. The example shown also had a through steam pipe, allowing it to work with the passenger stock shown. The traffic was containers from Aberdeen to Thurso, which worked to Inverness on a freight, before being transferred to the head of the northbound passenger service.

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

This reminds me, I was once looking into other prototype container flats that had a deck slightly lower than the standard FFA/FGA at the time. There was a pair for carrying 2x 2ft containers each, and a pair for carrying 3x 20ft containers each that looked very similar to modern spine wagons. The 3x 20ft pair ran on 3 axle bogies too. Would have loved to a set, but getting the bogies to work on a tight enough radius was challenging. Supposedly they were used a lot in Scotland as tail end wagons with mixed trains on remote lines, but I've never seen pictures of them 'out in the wild'.

 

Would be very interesting to know how long the prototype FFA/FGA were in use for, they're a nice little set for space restrained modellers.

These were special,low-platform, wagons, intended to carry 8'6" containers from the Glasgow area to Aberdeen. Such containers were outside the loading gauge when carried on normal FFa/FGA wagons. I think the TOPS code was FHA, and the wagons served from 1974 to 1993.

[hmrspaul]

20 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

These were special,low-platform, wagons, intended to carry 8'6" containers from the Glasgow area to Aberdeen. Such containers were outside the loading gauge when carried on normal FFa/FGA wagons. I think the TOPS code was FHA, and the wagons served from 1974 to 1993.

Lowliner A and Bs https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lowlinercontainer

 

There were only three FJA, 601997 - 9. All in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer  and in Scotland with the 2 axle freightliners FBBhttps://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brwhiskycontainerfbbfja   https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/freightliner4wheel

 

Paul