Where to start

[The Train Man]

Hey guys i am new to this forum, just wanted to now where the best place is to start when buying locos.

Which brand is best?? I like the look of Bachman, but seem pretty pricey.

Cheers in advanced!!

[The Johnster]

In very general terms, modern RTR locos and stock are very accurate and well performing models which represent very good value for money, though prices are rising as the Chinese manufacturers' costs increase (standards of living are improving over there, and why shouldn't they?).

 

You will find that there are 2 big players, Bachmann and Hornby.  Bachmann are a pretty safe bet, but some of the smaller and cheaper Hornby models are old stock that is not really up to the mark nowadays.  Other players will include Oxford, Heljan, and Dapol.  Ox try consciously to keep prices down, whereas the other two have a 'high end luxury model' approach.  DCC will increase the cost of your locos should you decide to go for it; it is, IMHO, The Future and will simplify your layout wiring very considerably, but will add about a third to the cost of most locos.

 

Size for size. steam outline locos are more expensive than diesel or electric outline ones, because the shapes are more complex, the motors harder to hide inside the bodywork, and the complexities of valve gear and coupling/connecting rods ups the ante a bit.  Loco prices start around £50 and go beyond £200 before you get into DCC; this is not a poor man's hobby, which is a pity because I am not a rich man...

 

Personally, if you are a newbie, I would suggest not trying to save money on eBay; you are not ready for this, many of the apparent bargains here are older models which do not perform as well as their current versions and you may run into compatibility issues with trackwork and couplings.  Do not, for the sake of your sanity, ever buy second hand track, or even accept it as a gift!  Take some time to decide what sort of thing you like, have room for, and can achieve within your budget, and keep an eye on forums like this where there is all sorts of free advice and information.  When you are planning your layout, assume it will take 30% more space than you think it will; the extra room will soon be eaten up when you start laying the track.

 

Compatibility is not too much of an issue as long as you stick with current production models that use NEM standard couplers and have wheel profiles that will run on Hornby, Bachmann, and Peco trackwork; everything should run reliably everywhere so long as you do not go below the manufacturer's minimum suggested suitable radius curve for the model.

 

If you have a good local model shop, use this initially as you will need the advice and information that it can offer, as well as the backup if things go wrong.  It may cost a bit more than buying online or from mail order box shifters, but you are not ready for this yet, and a bad experience can be very off putting to newbies.  Keep it simple and straightforward, don't try to cram a quart into a pint pot, and find out as much as you can about your preferred prototype and period (if you have one; many people are just happy to run all sorts of trains around irrespective of this, and there ain't nuttin' wrong with that, bro).

 

Ask questions, that's what we're here for.

 

Welcome to the insanity, I mean hobby.  We're a pretty friendly bunch by and large and we'll be happy to help if we can.

 

Good luck, and have fun!!!

Edited August 6, 2018 by The Johnster

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

A big question for me is what you are interested in. Yes, it does cost money, but if you have a specific modelling object in mind then a patient approach to only buying what is required for a specific subject area can keep the spend under control.

...Which brand is best?? I like the look of Bachman, but seem pretty pricey.
 

 I would suggest taking a step back and not thinking in terms of a particular maker's range  Of currently active ready to run ('RTR') manufacturers in OO I have items from Bachmann, Heljan, Hornby, Oxford, Rapido (and would have something from Dapol if only they would release the suitable item!) and it all operates together perfectly well, along with a selection of past RTR products from further manufacturers and various kit built models. This is because for the modelling subject that interests me each of those manufacturers is - or was - the sole supplier of at least one suitable item.

[Harlequin]

It can be a minefield because some ranges (e.g. Hornby Railroad) are deliberately lower spec and some products within a generally well-regarded range are known to have build quality and/or running problems.

 

If you tell us what locos you're interested in we can give probably you some opinions.

[The Train Man]

Thankyou for your help guys much appreciated.

I am hoping to build a small layout(dont no sizes yet) in a shed I have insulated for me and my son.

I think the layout will be mainly in the 90s era, so i guess mainly diesel or eletric locos.

Im not a rich man either, but intend to stick at the hobby for the long run, as I love everything about it. Wiring, building, scenery making and of course the trains themselves

What do yiu guys think of them starter sets you can get from Hornby, any good??

Edited August 7, 2018 by The Train Man

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Not the starter sets from Hornby. A mish-mash of low grade kids toys of obsolete design.. You can do far better.

 

Both Bachmann and Hornby offer an 08 shunter, something that is pretty much a vital item for diesel and electric modelling. Some Peco streamline track and a few appropriate wagons (probably Bachmann) and you are cooking with gas.

[woodenhead]

Try some of the second hand dealers for stock - if you are starting out buying all new can be expensive.

 

http://www.sandjmodelrailways.co.uk/

http://www.ronlines.com/

http://www.thejunctionbox.net/shop/

 

plus others if you look on Google

 

There is also Hattons and Rails secondhand but these tend to be pricier than the smaller outlets.

 

If you are confident with E-Bay that is also a good place to find stuff.

 

Link to a topic on secondhand traders http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118740-which-model-shops-who-have-usedpre-owned-sections-on-their-websites/

Edited August 7, 2018 by woodenhead

[crompton 33]

Plus you will need a Controller . It will depend on Dc or DCC as to what make you want . If it's DC them i recommend Gaugemaster with Life time gaurantee.

[6029 King Stephen]

Hi,

 

My advice to you would be to get hold of a Hornby or PECO track plans book and select a layout that suits you for the size that you want, that will allow the rolling stock you are interested in, to run on it.  A track plan can always be enlarged but it is not always feasible to reduce them.  The advantage of a track plans book is that it will list all the track items and definitely in the case of Hornby, all the electrical items and controllers that you will need to complete the layout. 

 

When starting out, it is all too easy to buy items because they are cheap or colourful that later you decide are not appropriate to the layout you decide upon or the region/period that interests you.  Whilst new items are (very) expensive, they do not generally retain any resale value so it is important not to waste money.  I would also recommend that you purchase one of the periodicals; Railway Modeller, Hornby Magazine, Model Rail or British Railway Modelling as not only do they contain articles about built layouts (for inspiration) but also usually have articles aimed at newcomers.  They also have plenty of advertisers for you to purchase items from.  A few catalogues are also a good idea to give you an example of what is available and you can check the prices in your magazine.

 

You mention that the layout is for you and your son.  Depending on the age of your son and what other interests he may have, you could be the only one interested in trains after a period of time.  If your son is young and unable to appreciate the cost and fragility of a brand new, highly detailed loco that has cost you over £120, then the Hornby Railroad range could suit you.  Generally speaking, the Railroad range consists of older Hornby models that have been revamped (improved?) with more modern chassis - many of the original Hornby steam locos from the '80's and '90's had tender drive mechanisms (avoid at all costs) and have been replaced with loco drive chassis and now form part of the Railroad range.  If you have witnessed a tender drive loco that is slipping with a full load and the loco valve gear is not moving but the tender wheels are turning or worse still, your loco is running round your layout with the valve gear jammed, you will appreciate how awful Hornby tender drives are.

 

Once you have selected a layout plan that suits you and your son, have bought all the tracks and accessories to run it and have bought the rolling stock that suits your interests and pocket, then you will be able to progress to the next step of building scenery etc.  Once you have gained further experience and skills you will have the confidence to try out some of the projects in your magazines and step up to more challenging layout plans that use flexible track, scale length point work to accommodate your growing collection of rolling stock.

 

Above all else, remember it is a hobby and one that can offer a huge range of skills and experience whilst at the same time, being fun!

 

Good luck,

 

Steve 

Edited August 7, 2018 by 6029 King Stephen

[DCB]

Thankyou for your help guys much appreciated.

I am hoping to build a small layout(dont no sizes yet) in a shed I have insulated for me and my son.

I think the layout will be mainly in the 90s era, so i guess mainly diesel or eletric locos.

Im not a rich man either, but intend to stick at the hobby for the long run, as I love everything about it. Wiring, building, scenery making and of course the trains themselves

What do yiu guys think of them starter sets you can get from Hornby, any good??

What is the size of the shed? 16 ft X 8ft is a good size for 00!     1990s is a bit niche, my garden line was supposed to be 1987 ish, Scotand Highland Inverness area lots of large logo blue, Dutch and Grey railreight and stripy Inter City liveries, 400 + class 47s and no two alike.  Blue grey and NSE coaches  Loco hauled trains. Lots of RTR in these liveries.

By 1990 it was almost all sprinters.   CJ Freezer did some good plans in 60 plans for small railways etc. 

Lots of good S/H RTR on Ebay, much of it 25 to 33% of new price especially in summer.  Lima coaches are basically rubbish except the Mk3s which are full length and but most of the diesel locos are good and reliable, the Deltic and 50 have undersize bogies and the 08 goes like Rocket so best avoided.    Hornby Mk1 and Mk2 coaches are Ok

I would avoid Hornby starter sets, And avoid set track and Hornby points.   3rd Radius and 2ft radius points are a good minimum.

If you decide on a track plan post it on here under the layout heading and several people on this forum will take the, ah, give helpful and constructive advice.

[6029 King Stephen]

If you live in the West Country or visit there on holidays etc, then a visit to Pecorama in Beer, near Seaton, Devon is a good place to see Peco built layouts in various locations including a shed.  They also have a shop to get advice and buy the Peco products you have just seen used on their layouts.  There is also a model railway with shop in Mevagissey, Cornwall and there used to be one at the Trago Mills site near Newton Abbott in Devon (best check before travelling!).

 

Regards,

 

Steve

[bike2steam]

'The Johnster' is right, but I'll just add - don't rush into decisions, think about what you want to do, resist being over ambitious and do plenty of reading / research.

[Pete the Elaner]

For a first layout, keep it as simple as possible. Getting something running is a massive morale booster. The larger or more complex the layout, the less likely you are to have something you will be satisfied with.

[The Train Man]

Thanks for all the tips and info guys, alot to think about!

[crompton 33]

Go to a model rail Exhibitions and have a good look at the layouts . This will give you some ideas as to what you can do. Ask Questions most will give advice. At the same time look at the trade stands for bargains . If you bye a Loco get someone on a layout to test it for you .

[Jeff Smith]

I have a Gaugemaster single output basic DC controller bought in 1988 and converted to 110v for use in the US. It has not had extensive use but is extremely good and suitable for coreless motors which some of the recent RTR locos may have (Rapido Stirling Single).

 

The DCC fans will naturally recommend it but for a modest layout, DC and live frog isolating points are all you need and will keep the cost down. RTR locos come in three varieties, DC only, DCC ready (usually with a socket ready to accept a DCC chip) and DCC with a chip fitted, some also have sound. Most DCC chips are dual use so can be run on DC or DCC, so if for some reason you end up with one you can still run it.

 

I have owned a 4'x 8' layout which was built for DCC and ran several locos but it could just as easily been constructed for DC with isolating points and a couple of sections. Certainly if you want more than one loco in a siding it is easier with DCC. Incidentally I learnt with Leesburg (see link below) that round layouts seem a good idea but cured me of ever wanting to build another.....

 

Start with a simple terminus with a few points, a loop and a couple of sidings for shunting. You can hone your skills building and operating because I can almost guarantee that if you envisage a vast complicated layout you will loose interest as you develop skills and interests and realize your original concept has shortfalls and does not match your improved efforts.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do and absorb all the help available here.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[The Johnster]

You will need to make some decisions early on that are not irreversible but are hard to reverse without major effort and expense.  It looks as if you've already made 2 of them, 00 gauge and 90s period; this is useful in that you will not be distracted by the rest of everything and will concentrate your mind accordingly.  The next decision is the track; is it to be setrack or Peco flexible (Streamline).  Set track, marketed by Peco as 'Setrack' and also provided by Hornby or Bachmann in their own brands, is, as the name suggests, in set pieces and what comes in a train set; there are preformed sections in straights and 4 different radii of curves with a standard geometry and at a standard centre that will ensure clearance of vehicles on curves; the points match this geometry.  It is ideal for a railway that needs very sharp curves to fit into a small space, but the curves need careful scenic treatment to avoid looking ridiculously out of scale in terms of radius, which of course they are.  The different makes are fully compatible with each other and all modern stock will run fine on them.

 

Peco make 'Streamline', and have done for since god was in short trousers; this is flexible system sold in yard lengths with pointwork of small, medium, and large radii; even small is a larger radius than the biggest setrack one.  You can lay the track to any curve you want down to about 2'/66cm radius, but lower than that is asking for trouble as it is very easy to distort the track out of gauge; you are better with set track for this sort of thing.  Streamline is compatible with set track in terms of profile and what will run on it, but the geometry is different, closer to scale, with the centres much closer; you must rely on yourself to ensure stock clears on curves.  Horses for courses.

 

My personal opinion is that the build quality of Peco track is superior to Hornby's, especially the pointwork; I cannot comment about Bachmann's as I've never used it.  Your points need to be very reliable.  To make the point about curvature and scale, nearly all model railway curvature is a compromise and FAR TOO TIGHT!!!  A curve that would demand a 5mph speed restriction on a real railway scales out to about 5 feet radius, and express running needs more like 30!

 

The other choice is control systems.  There are 2, DC and DCC; DC is the one you are probably familiar with, in which a controller alters the voltage of the supply to the track, which is picked up by the loco, to control the speed and direction (polarity is reversed) of the train.  Trains are parked up on sections of track isolated and controlled with switches so that they do not move  unless they are required; only one loco should move at a time on a given controller's 'section'.  Wiring on a big layout is complex and can be a proper rat's nest, but the system is well tried and tested, and we can sort out any problems you have easily enough.  Back to points a minute; the Streamline type includes the option of 'live frogs' which require switching and wiring which further complicates the issue, but 'dead' automatically isolating frogs mean a dead section of track which is likely to interfere with good slow running.

 

DCC is an electronic system that claims to be able to control your entire railway with just two feed wires.  The full voltage, 12V DC is supplied at all times and a circuit board on the loco interprets instructions from the DCC controller to control speed, direction, or parking up; it can be used to control lighting and sound as well.  Slow running is very good, because the full voltage is available to the motor all the time.  It is undoubtedly The Future, and has been around for a good few years now and is well developed, but as discussed earlier, ups the initial cost outlay; both locos and controllers are more expensive.  You can recover some of this initial cost outlay by defraying the savings you made on not having to buy numerous switches, relays, and so forth, the extent depending on how complex your layout's wiring needs to be in DC.  But additional locos will have to be DCC fitted and the increased cost will just keep coming...

 

You will need to start thinking about the actual layout, it's track plan and how it fits in the shed.  Cyril Freezer's plan books have been mentioned, and they are the standard go to despite being written over 50 years ago, but I would suggest using them as guidance and inspiration rather than instruction; his plans are a bit 'steam age' nowadays and often require multi level approaches with complex carpentry needed to construct the baseboards.  When they were drawn up, the typical train was a big loco and 3 or 4 coaches, 10 or a dozen wagons, and these were the likes of heavyweight Hornby Dublo with cabs full of powerful motors that could cope with the gradients.  My advice would be very strongly to avoid gradients until you are more experienced, keep things simple and on one level, lay your track carefully and smoothly especially the points. Freezer's curves are much too sharp for my taste.

 

Remember there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers, which we will try not to give you!

[The Train Man]

I may pop to a train exhibition like crompton33 suggested

Edited August 7, 2018 by The Train Man

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

I may pop to a train exhibition like crompton33 suggested

Go for it! You will like other members said learn lots of stuff from it. I started in this hobby 4 years ago this weekend and have loved every moment of it. I don't have a layout yet but I will do soon. Another suggestion is to join (if there is one), a model railway club. I have been at one for a few months now and I have gone to barely touching or detailing any of my stock to full on detailing it and making performance better. Like you I also have a soft spot for the 90s and ac electrics. As for rolling stock and locos, (this is how I do it) I buy a loco that I am interested in (or 2 if I really am up for it) but you need to also do some research on it as well so you know what to go with it (eg a class 66 with a container train). I also try to get the liveries I want for the right location. If you have a particular location you want to model (eg WCML Crewe), you need to find out what stock you need to go with the location and era you use. However, if you want to you can run whatever you want as it's your layout so you can make the decisions for what suits your taste. like other members said we are always happy to help and always feel free to answer questions. I have asked a lot myself and the response I have had is amazing. I really hope this helps,

 

Best regards, Matthew 

[The Train Man]

Thanks everyone you guys really are helpfull, all the info will help me alot

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Your very welcome

[Huw Griffiths]

I hope you don't mind if I chime in here.

 

So far, there's been a lot of very sound advice - and you're likely to get lots more, both here and if you ask questions at shows.

 

I suspect that a number of people here would agree with me that, when it comes to track, you certainly don't want the stuff that seems to find its way into Hornby trainset packs, for a number of reasons:

• It often seems to have steel rails - which could lead to problems with corrosion and poor electrical connections. Once you've decided on your layout, steel track probably also isn't the easiest to solder.
   
• You might sometimes see disparaging comments about "trainset curves" - a lot of the curved track in trainset packs is likely to be to their smallest radius, often referred to by names like "1st radius" or "R1". This is another problem, because a lot of modern RTR (ready to run) locos and stock seem to need curves to be at least "2nd radius" in order for them to run properly.

 

Assuming that you go for Peco track, it is certainly possible to mix "Setrack" and "Streamline" track - but, before you buy any track, it would make sense to decide the rail height you're going for. Peco offer 2 standard rail heights in their UK range - "code 100" and "code 75" (they also offer "code 83" for US modellers - but let's not worry about this here).

 

The code number refers to the rail height, in thousandths of an inch - although "code 100" is probably deeper than scale height for quite a bit of railway track (especially old track), a lot of older RTR models have wheels with coarse flanges, which could cause running problems with "code 75". These days, RTR locos and rolling stock often seems to come with wheels with a profile conforming to NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) RP-25 - which would probably run OK on both "code 75" and "code 100".

 

Saying all that, if it were me, I'd still stick with "code 100" track. If, for some reason, the slightly higher rail height were perceived to be offensive, there are ways of disguising this - but I wouldn't worry about stuff like that right now. What's far more important is to ensure that the track works reliably - and everything runs smoothly on it.

 

I've seen and heard a number of comments about the CJ Freezer track plans - and actually needing more space to build layouts than suggested by the plans. I've also heard suggestions that the (1950s) track that formed the basis of these plans might have been to sharper radii than that sold now. I can't comment about these suggestions (well, I wasn't even born until the mid 1960s!) - but it would certainly make sense to allow extra space.

 

Meanwhile, some people use "Streamline" flextrack - which comes in long lengths, which you shape and cut to length yourself. You can get curve templates for this stuff. Although I've never used them, I believe you place one between the rails when shaping the track - and fix the track while the template's in place. You then remove the template and use it again where needed.

 

 

Incidentally, when you see anything written about model railway electrics, you need to be aware that "12V dc" doesn't always mean 12V dc. Certainly, any RTR locos etc you come across will have been designed to run with a 12V dc supply. They'll also be wired so that, if the right hand rail is positive compared to the left, the loco will move forward. This is all in line with NMRA S-9.

 

In practice, though, you'll often find that the voltage across the track might well be higher than 12V (some controllers used to output about 18V - and that's before you start talking about various "flavours" of pulsed track supplies.

 

Also, DCC often involves a modified square wave signal which, apart from changing direction all the time, could easily involve even higher voltages.

 

None of this should be a problem with controllers, locos and stock from reputable manufacturers - but it might be worth bearing in mind if you add track powered lighting or build your own locos at a later date.

 

 

As for whether to use DC or DCC for control, I wouldn't try to push you either way. However, it's noticeable that a lot of modern RTR stuff is supplied "DCC ready". This means that, although it's designed to run on DC - and doesn't come with a decoder - it often includes a socket, plus a blanking plug.

 

OK - if you were to fit a decoder at a later date, you'd need to make sure it has the right number of pins (or use an adaptor) - but this arrangement does at least allow you to decide at a later date. It also allows you to choose which decoder chip to fit.

 

Even if you stick with DC, having a socket also makes it easy to isolate different parts of a loco / DMU, which some people (like me) might find useful for maintenance purposes.

 

 

However, the most important advice here is to put yourself in a position where you can get sensible advice, from people who've "been there before". If there's a local model railway club, why not find out if they have any shows or open days - these would give a great chance to find out how easy these guys are to get on with.

 

Large exhibitions are also great - if you find yourself at an exhibition where one (or more) of the mainstream magazines have a presence, there'll often be people there who can at least point you in the right direction. As a rule, I've found these people to be very approachable, very keen to get people interested in the hobby - and ensure that we stay interested.

 

A number of these people are also members of this site - as I'm sure you'll find out over the coming weeks and months. There are also a number of other people, with significant knowledge of various aspects of railway modelling - many of these people have often shown themselves willing to answer questions / provide sensible advice as appropriate.

 

 

Anyway, that's more than enough from me for now. You've got plenty to think about right now - and no doubt plenty more over the coming weeks and months. Don't feel that you've got to rush things.

 

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Huw Griffiths

[Jeff Smith]

Just to add a comment to Huw's mention of Peco track. You should be aware that Peco code 100 and 75 is actually HO scale, 1/87th, as against OO at 1/76th. However it has been used for OO ever since introduction. This represents flat bottom rail with clips to hold it to the sleepers. Recently Peco has introduced an OO track that represents bullhead rail in chairs, it is also code 75 and is compatible with the HO code 75. It is closer to 1/76th except of course for the gauge. It looks very good but is much more fragile than the traditional Streamline and is more expensive. It might be something to move up to after building a modest starter layout with code 100.

[PannierTanker14]

If you want a locomotive with good detail that isn't pricey then the Hornby railroad range fits that description.

Plus there are plenty of second hand locomotives that are in good condition to use.

 

(Sorry if this is of no use, I'm fairly new to all this)

[The Train Man]

Emm... cheers panniertanker14 what im gunna do is rijg my local club, just been looking at their website and seem to have alot of layouts, so i can see loco in action

Cheers

Dan