Pembroke Oil Trains

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Maybe that should be in the when the real thing looks like a model. Someone has forgotten to paint the additional plasticard on the doors.

 

and thank you for the photo.

 

Keith

Oh no they haven't - it was unpainted metal on some.  It looks like it probably varied according to which works built them in the way the shape  of the yellow panel also varied very slightly.   From my own photos a simple summary seems to be rounded top corners on the yellow panel = unpainted kick plate below the cab door; squared top corners on the yellow panel = dark/painted kick plate.

[David J Hayes]

On 07/11/2022 at 22:10, Phil Bullock said:

Many thanks Dave. Looks like the run round at Wednesbury was not popular! Pretty sure I have seen somewhere the  run round moved to Bescot yard … certainly photos of the train there although I imagine that both routes - Wednesbury and Hereford - required the empties to run through Bescot given a south bound departure from Albion … via Soho Junctions and Perry Barr.

 

YOU'RE very welcome, Phil. As I also mentioned, the Albion run-rounds at Wednesbury were shown to take place at Pleck Junction in one of the early 1970s WTTs, but this was a short-lived arrangement. It's quite possible they ran into Bescot instead to perform the said run-round during this short period, but I have not seen any official WTT information to support this.

 

As you say, all the empty trains from Albion were booked via Bescot from where they then either proceeded via Dudley or Wolverhampton High Level to reach South Wales (also routed via Walsall during the 1990s), or via Walsall if returning to the likes of Lindsey, Ripple Lane or Teesport (there were also empties to Stanlow, which travelled Bescot-Portobello Junction-Bushbury).  

 

I believe the reason trains between Waterston and Albion during the early 1970s were re-routed via Hereford and Shrewsbury was because of problems with the permanent way on an embankment in the Brierley Hill area, which also affected the Texaco oil service from Cardiff Docks to Soho Pool (booked for a "Hymek" until circa 1970). The routing of the Albion trains via the N&W was meant to be a temporary arrangement, I believe, but became a permanent fixture. The Soho Pool train, however, reverted back to running via Dudley again and continued to travel this way until the service ended in 1982. 

 

Cheers.

 

Dave.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by David J Hayes

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, David J Hayes said:

 

YOU'RE very welcome, Phil. As I also mentioned, the Albion run-rounds at Wednesbury were shown to take place at Pleck Junction in one of the early 1970s WTTs, but this was a short-lived arrangement. It's quite possible they ran into Bescot instead to perform the said run-round during this short period, but I have not seen any official WTT information to support this.

 

As you say, all the empty trains from Albion were booked via Bescot from where they then either proceeded via Dudley or Wolverhampton High Level to reach South Wales (also routed via Walsall during the 1990s), or via Walsall if returning to the likes of Lindsey, Ripple Lane or Teesport (there were also empties to Stanlow, which travelled Bescot-Portobello Junction-Bushbury).  

 

I believe the reason trains between Waterston and Albion during the early 1970s were re-routed via Hereford and Shrewsbury was because of problems with the permanent way on an embankment in the Brierley Hill area, which also affected the Texaco oil service from Cardiff Docks to Soho Pool (booked for a "Hymek" until circa 1970). The routing of the Albion trains via the N&W was meant to be a temporary arrangement, I believe, but became a permanent fixture. The Soho Pool train, however, reverted back to running via Dudley again and continued to travel this way until the service ended in 1982. 

 

Cheers.

 

Dave.

 

Many thanks David. The Soho Pool train from Cardiff Tidal was diagrammed for a pair of Hymeks early on … there’s a Michael Mensing photo of it at Norton Junction with this traction. Think it then split at Bescot and went round to Soho as two trains. Started in steam days when it was powered by a Cardiff East Dock 9F … often Evening Star. Tanks were originally branded Regent but this was removed by late 60s I think.

 

Soon to re-appear on the new layout…

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, David J Hayes said:

 

YOU'RE very welcome, Phil. As I also mentioned, the Albion run-rounds at Wednesbury were shown to take place at Pleck Junction in one of the early 1970s WTTs, but this was a short-lived arrangement. It's quite possible they ran into Bescot instead to perform the said run-round during this short period, but I have not seen any official WTT information to support this.

 

As you say, all the empty trains from Albion were booked via Bescot from where they then either proceeded via Dudley or Wolverhampton High Level to reach South Wales (also routed via Walsall during the 1990s), or via Walsall if returning to the likes of Lindsey, Ripple Lane or Teesport (there were also empties to Stanlow, which travelled Bescot-Portobello Junction-Bushbury).  

 

I believe the reason trains between Waterston and Albion during the early 1970s were re-routed via Hereford and Shrewsbury was because of problems with the permanent way on an embankment in the Brierley Hill area, which also affected the Texaco oil service from Cardiff Docks to Soho Pool (booked for a "Hymek" until circa 1970). The routing of the Albion trains via the N&W was meant to be a temporary arrangement, I believe, but became a permanent fixture. The Soho Pool train, however, reverted back to running via Dudley again and continued to travel this way until the service ended in 1982. 

 

Cheers.

 

Dave.

 

According to one of my planning staff the reasn they were kept diverted that way was to avoid the need for the run-round movement in the West Midlands and that also had something to do with the diversion anyway so I was told.  

 

Oddly in 1992 I avoided paying for the curve at Salop by saying we could run round the oil train in Shrewsbury station.  A little bit of slightly crafty cost dumping on my part as the only booked trains on the curve were oil trains but Intercity used it to turn engines on steam specials so they picked up the infrastructure cost - cleaver stuff that sectorisation

[David J Hayes]

4 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Many thanks David. The Soho Pool train from Cardiff Tidal was diagrammed for a pair of Hymeks early on … there’s a Michael Mensing photo of it at Norton Junction with this traction. Think it then split at Bescot and went round to Soho as two trains. Started in steam days when it was powered by a Cardiff East Dock 9F … often Evening Star. Tanks were originally branded Regent but this was removed by late 60s I think.

 

Soon to re-appear on the new layout…

 

YES, Phil, I have the OPC book with that "Hymek" pairing on the Regent tankers at Norton Junction, Worcestershire. The same book also contains an image of a "Hymek" heading south, just south of Abbotswood Junction, with a raft of "Regents", which could well be empties from Soho Pool. I have also seen an image of "Evening Star" at Pengam with the loaded train (believed to have originated from Cardiff Bute Docks) coming off the docks line.

 

As you say, the Regent brandings may well have been removed from the tank barrels by the late 1960s because the Regent Oil Company became part of Texaco in 1967, which I think may have also been around the time the "Hymek" pairings ceased on the Soho Pool trains, though I stand to be corrected.

 

I believe the period of "Hymek" pairings was to handle an increased loading of 40 two-axle tankers on this service. Again, as you say, Phil, these were then split at Bescot (into two 20-wagon formations) for final delivery to Soho Pool. Interestingly, the return empties ran as two separately "Hymek"-hauled trains back to South Wales, both departing Soho Pool for Cardiff within a few hours of each other.

 

Cheers.

 

Dave. 

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, David J Hayes said:

 

YES, Phil, I have the OPC book with that "Hymek" pairing on the Regent tankers at Norton Junction, Worcestershire. The same book also contains an image of a "Hymek" heading south, just south of Abbotswood Junction, with a raft of "Regents", which could well be empties from Soho Pool. I have also seen an image of "Evening Star" at Pengam with the loaded train (believed to have originated from Cardiff Bute Docks) coming off the docks line.

 

As you say, the Regent brandings may well have been removed from the tank barrels by the late 1960s because the Regent Oil Company became part of Texaco in 1967, which I think may have also been around the time the "Hymek" pairings ceased on the Soho Pool trains, though I stand to be corrected.

 

I believe the period of "Hymek" pairings was to handle an increased loading of 40 two-axle tankers on this service. Again, as you say, Phil, these were then split at Bescot (into two 20-wagon formations) for final delivery to Soho Pool. Interestingly, the return empties ran as two separately "Hymek"-hauled trains back to South Wales, both departing Soho Pool for Cardiff within a few hours of each other.

 

Cheers.

 

Dave. 

Thanks Dave

 

Yes that’s the photo….

 

Fascinating that we can quote operations from nearly 60 years ago on here!

 

Phil

Edited November 15, 2022 by Phil Bullock
Additional info

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, David J Hayes said:

I have also seen an image of "Evening Star" at Pengam with the loaded train (believed to have originated from Cardiff Bute Docks) coming off the docks line.

Regent, later Texaco, had a tank farm at  Cardiff Docks situated on the reclaimed land between the Queen Alexandra (Queen’s) dock sea lock and the foreshore; it is still there.  The ships discharged at a berth on that side immediately inside the lock entrance to the Queen’s.  
 

A regular on this job was Regent Royale, later Texaco Gloucester, a 10,000 tonner built in 1954.  My father, a Cardiff pilot, hated her; she was, according to him, a lump, slow to respond to the wheel, underpowered, and with an unpredictable response to the throttle.  This dysfunctional relationship began when she became his first grounding, at Penarth Head.  She’d needed to time her entrance to the top of a neap tide, and it set to the ebb before she entered the lock, setting her on to the shoreline despite the efforts of the 4 tugs; her own engine didn’t respond in time to do anything.  There is a photo of this incident, which dad reckoned bent her keel and made her even more of a pig, on the ‘Glasgow Ships’ website, 1959 or 60 I think.  She was a renowned pugilist when it came to lock entrances as well.  
 

When Texaco replaced Regent, he had some hope that he’d seen the last of her, so when he had to bring in a ship called Texaco Gloucester he thought nothing of it, but when the familiar lumpen silhouette hove into view around Rhoose Point, he knoew another of his days was ruined!  
 

She wasn’t muchh better empty, either, a high freeboard and very high bow being prone to catcing the wind, but at least there was more water under her and things were a bit less fraught when you you’d rounded Lavernock. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

19 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Thanks Dave

 

Yes that’s the photo….

 

Fascinating that we can quote operations from nearly 60 years ago on here!

 

Phil

 

But I can't remember what I had for breakfast!

 

Mike.

[br2975]

By 1977...............

.

6M39 23:45 Cardiff Tidal - Soho Pool, Texaco loaded railcars.

"Assisted rear Stourbridge Junction - Dudley and from Perry Barr North Junction".

.

At the same time 'Amoco' were sending out the following, from Robeston;

6M57 00:30 SX to Oakleigh

6B11 05:00 SX  to Bromsgrove

6M36 05:00 SX to Kingsbury

.

'Gulf' at Waterston were sending out;

6B05 00:15 TThO to Newton Abbott

6O12 02:10 MSX to Pembrey or Margam

6A02 06:55 MSX to Langley

6M50 15:10 SX to Albion

.

'BP' Llandarcy were despatching;

6O38 06:50 MThO to Haverfordwest

6O29 10:50 ThFO to Aberthaw

6O64 15:00 SX to Aberthaw

6O70 16:30 SX to Llanwern

6E47 17:05 SX to Gainsborough / Tuxford (empties), the balance of 6V01 15:15 SX Gainsborough - Llandarcy

6O51 17:05 SX to Wareham (empties), the balance of 6V01 18:22 SX Wareha

6O09 21:20 FSX to Margam

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

But I can't remember what I had for breakfast!

 

Mike.

Better have kippers Mike…. They will keep reminding you all day!

[hmrspaul]

On 15/11/2022 at 17:51, The Johnster said:

Regent, later Texaco, had a tank farm at  Cardiff Docks situated on the reclaimed land between the Queen Alexandra (Queen’s) dock sea lock and the foreshore; it is still there.  The ships discharged at a berth on that side immediately inside the lock entrance to the Queen’s.  
 

A regular on this job was Regent Royale, later Texaco Gloucester, a 10,000 tonner built in 1954.  My father, a Cardiff pilot, hated her; she was, according to him, a lump, slow to respond to the wheel, underpowered, and with an unpredictable response to the throttle.  This dysfunctional relationship began when she became his first grounding, at Penarth Head.  She’d needed to time her entrance to the top of a neap tide, and it set to the ebb before she entered the lock, setting her on to the shoreline despite the efforts of the 4 tugs; her own engine didn’t respond in time to do anything.  There is a photo of this incident, which dad reckoned bent her keel and made her even more of a pig, on the ‘Glasgow Ships’ website, 1959 or 60 I think.  She was a renowned pugilist when it came to lock entrances as well.  
 

When Texaco replaced Regent, he had some hope that he’d seen the last of her, so when he had to bring in a ship called Texaco Gloucester he thought nothing of it, but when the familiar lumpen silhouette hove into view around Rhoose Point, he knoew another of his days was ruined!  
 

She wasn’t muchh better empty, either, a high freeboard and very high bow being prone to catcing the wind, but at least there was more water under her and things were a bit less fraught when you you’d rounded Lavernock. 

There wagon fleet was a later build of the 22ton vac brake design introduced by Chas Roberts in 1958. Introduced in 1960 and lasting into the 1980s when they looked old - nowadays a 20 plus year old wagon is relatively new - plenty of 40 plus around. 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/texaco

 

Paul

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, br2975 said:

By 1977...............

.

6M39 23:45 Cardiff Tidal - Soho Pool, Texaco loaded railcars.

"Assisted rear Stourbridge Junction - Dudley and from Perry Barr North Junction".

.

At the same time 'Amoco' were sending out the following, from Robeston;

6M57 00:30 SX to Oakleigh

6B11 05:00 SX  to Bromsgrove

6M36 05:00 SX to Kingsbury

.

'Gulf' at Waterston were sending out;

6B05 00:15 TThO to Newton Abbott

6O12 02:10 MSX to Pembrey or Margam

6A02 06:55 MSX to Langley

6M50 15:10 SX to Albion

.

'BP' Llandarcy were despatching;

6O38 06:50 MThO to Haverfordwest

6O29 10:50 ThFO to Aberthaw

6O64 15:00 SX to Aberthaw

6O70 16:30 SX to Llanwern

6E47 17:05 SX to Gainsborough / Tuxford (empties), the balance of 6V01 15:15 SX Gainsborough - Llandarcy

6O51 17:05 SX to Wareham (empties), the balance of 6V01 18:22 SX Wareha

6O09 21:20 FSX to Margam

 

 

6M36, 6A02, and 6M50, also 6M49 Waterston-Albion, were link jobs for me. 6A02, 47 and 11 TEA, conveyed aviation spirit for the dwindling but still significant number of piston-engined aircraft using Heathrow and RAF Northolt. 

[Phil Bullock]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

6M36, 6A02, and 6M50, also 6M49 Waterston-Albion, were link jobs for me. 6A02, 47 and 11 TEA, conveyed aviation spirit for the dwindling but still significant number of piston-engined aircraft using Heathrow and RAF Northolt. 

6A02 presumably not an Albion working ? 

[Phil Bullock]

8 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

There wagon fleet was a later build of the 22ton vac brake design introduced by Chas Roberts in 1958. Introduced in 1960 and lasting into the 1980s when they looked old - nowadays a 20 plus year old wagon is relatively new - plenty of 40 plus around. 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/texaco

 

Paul

Cheers Paul have debranded my Regent 35 tonners based on those photos 

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

6A02 presumably not an Albion working ? 

06.55 Waterston-Langley (Bucks) as listed by that nice Mr Rolley.  Relieved Llanelli men at Canton Sidings about 11.30 IIRC, worked to Swindon, booked home on the cushions, not the toughest gig in the link, and single manned so you usually got a front cab ride.  It did cause me a little concern in Patchway up cutting one hot summer day in 1976, where Bristol Fire Service were putting out a grass fire in the cutting, which I didn’t think was the best environment for avgas, but we passed through with no problems. 
 

On another occasion with this train we ran over several foxhounds belonging to the Beaufort Hunt; we saw Reynard in the distance coming down the bank between the station site and Badminton Tunnel, cross the line, and up the other bank, with the pack about 15 seconds behind.  The Hunt pulled up at the railway fence, but the hounds could not be stopped, and by that time neither could we with 1,217 tons at 60mph; some of the hounds were so keen with bloodlust they actually tried to run between the bogies of the TEAs.  
 

This was unpleasant though I was pleased for Reynard.  MFH came down the bank and we cleared the line between us; worst were the injured dogs, several of which he offed with a small revolver.  We were delayed about 10 minutes.  I didn’t, still don’t, like the idea of killing animals for sport, and if I’d known at the time that it was common practice to feed the carcasses of dead foxhounds to the rest of the pack I might have been even less willing to help move the carcasses!

Edited November 17, 2022 by The Johnster

[Northmoor]

On 16/11/2022 at 18:03, br2975 said:

By 1977...............

.

6M39 23:45 Cardiff Tidal - Soho Pool, Texaco loaded railcars.

"Assisted rear Stourbridge Junction - Dudley and from Perry Barr North Junction".

.

At the same time 'Amoco' were sending out the following, from Robeston;

6M57 00:30 SX to Oakleigh

6B11 05:00 SX  to Bromsgrove

6M36 05:00 SX to Kingsbury

.

'Gulf' at Waterston were sending out;

6B05 00:15 TThO to Newton Abbott

6O12 02:10 MSX to Pembrey or Margam

6A02 06:55 MSX to Langley

6M50 15:10 SX to Albion

.

'BP' Llandarcy were despatching;

6O38 06:50 MThO to Haverfordwest

6O29 10:50 ThFO to Aberthaw

6O64 15:00 SX to Aberthaw

6O70 16:30 SX to Llanwern

6E47 17:05 SX to Gainsborough / Tuxford (empties), the balance of 6V01 15:15 SX Gainsborough - Llandarcy

6O51 17:05 SX to Wareham (empties), the balance of 6V01 18:22 SX Wareha

6O09 21:20 FSX to Margam

 

 

I know some of the balancing workings were in daylight, but you can see why there aren't too many published photos of oil trains in West Wales.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 15/11/2022 at 05:24, David J Hayes said:

I believe the reason trains between Waterston and Albion during the early 1970s were re-routed via Hereford and Shrewsbury was because of problems with the permanent way on an embankment in the Brierley Hill area,

There was a job c1972 recovering coal from an embankment around Brettel Lane requiring some temporary track works.

[Covkid]

On 10/11/2022 at 20:52, br2975 said:

.

A bit before your time in Kilgetty, but here's a Class 37 on the P&T.

.

D6604 at Tenby, 1966 - a Robert 'Bob' Masterman photo.

 

Definitely something for the Accuracale guys to consider  

[The Johnster]

That deffo tallies with my memory of '66 as being a partiuclarly wet summer. 

 

Note that the seats are all facing the up line; more people waited for up trains than down ones at Tenby, obvious when you think of the location, might be a feature to bear in mind for those modelling such stations with island platforms.

[Northmoor]

8 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

That deffo tallies with my memory of '66 as being a partiuclarly wet summer. 

 

Note that the seats are all facing the up line; more people waited for up trains than down ones at Tenby, obvious when you think of the location, might be a feature to bear in mind for those modelling such stations with island platforms.

Excellent point; most stations have a "tidal flow" of passengers to some extent.  People wait for trains, but don't wait around on a station if it's their destination.

[The Johnster]

It’s why I don’t have passengers on the platform at Cwmdimbath, which in this respect is not a million miles away from a typical BLT.  Everybody in the village lives within earshot of the station, they can hear the engines whistling and barking up the bank and they know the timetable by heart even if they’ve never read it.  
 

Surely they’d wait at home in the warm and dry until the last minute, and you can’t see them when they get to the station because the stock is in the way.   Better than people on the platform when the train arrives, and the same people when it leaves, almost as if they are superglued to the spot.  Cwmdimbath has a proper waiting room like Abergwynfi with a coal fire which I doubt was ever lit but the other Tondu branches, Gilfach Foch, Blaengarw, and Nantymoel only had shelters, not very welcoming in bad weather. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Definitely something for the Accuracale guys to consider  

 

I must have missed that picture previously somehow.

Pedantically it's not on the P & T it's on the Pembroke Dock to Whitland branch line proper.

 

Mike.

The Whitland branch and it's connections being the only bit of the GWR I know slightly anything about due to spending every summer holiday there in the 50's and 60's!