Help with Levernumbering

[Junctionmad]

Hi attached is the signalling diagram of " Little Siddington" , our clubs large O Gauge layout , its based ( somewhat loosely on Badminton ) , and is set in late GWR early BR Days 

 

Im having trouble laying on the lever frame numbering, I know generally the points worked out from the centre and the signals at each end , 

 

 

Id appreciate some guidance 

 

 

regards

 

Dave 

[imt]

Dave I cannot do what you want, but can I please ask (given they are properly placed everywhere else) why there is no trap or other protection by the down platform starter?  Its probably just my ignorance.

 

I am also confused by the signal on the up main with 3 apparent routes - I can see no destinations - or are they off scene?

 

Iain

Edited August 29, 2018 by imt

[RailWest]

As the platform road is a passenger line no trap is usually provided  (unless circumstances demand otherwise), and generally speaking facing traps in passenger lines are avoided as far as possible.

 

As to the OP's question - if based loosely on Badminton, they why not start with the diagram from Badminton and adjust as necessary? :-)

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S600.htm

[Oldddudders]

A couple of distants would help. You may not have the space to model these - but they are surely in the frame!

[iands]

Hi Dave,

 

On the Up (Thru' line) there is a signal opposite the signal box with 3 arms on it but, if I'm reading your plan correctly, I can only see one route. Is this signal drawn in the correct position, or is there something missing from the diagram?

 

Regards, Ian.

[Junctionmad]

The three way signal reads , Up main to UP main , UpLoop to UpMain ( via X-Over) , Uploop to Headhunt, IN Badminton , this signal was split into two , With a single post single on the UPmain to UPmain , but I  cant fit a post between the tracks so  they are combined here 

 

I dont have a lever frame numbered signalling plan of Badminton unfortunately , The signalling record society CD of B - Bristol Division is out of stock 

 

Its impossible to represents distants , they are regarded as off scene , and Im not putting levers in for them , 

 

regards 

 

Dave 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Junctionmad

[RailWest]

>>>The three way signal reads , Up main to UP main , UpLoop to UpMain ( via X-Over) , Uploop to Headhunt, IN Badminton , this signal was split into two , With a single post single on the UP main to UPmain , but I  cant fit a post between the tracks so  they are combined here.....

 

In which case, I would suggest that the 2 RH dolls need (a) to be of the same height and (b) more widely spaced than the 2 LH ones.

 

You may not want, or have room for, distants, but I would suggest that - if you want to do the numbering 'properly' - then you should at least take them into account, likewise FPLs (of which at least 3 are needed).

 

The dead-end spurs at the entry end of the loops at Badminton were not used for traffic purposes, so unless you propose to find a use for them on your layout then the traps and dummies at their exits are not needed.

[flyingsignalman]

 

Here is a quick sketch I've done with a numbering scheme. I hope it's legible!

You've shown the frame facing the down lines so I've drawn it from that point of view.

I've added a signal on the down main that wasn't on your diagram; otherwise I haven't altered it at all. No spares are shown but I have included the distants.

I hope this helps you to work your own numbering scheme out.

[Junctionmad]

20180829_214708.jpg

 

Here is a quick sketch I've done with a numbering scheme. I hope it's legible!

You've shown the frame facing the down lines so I've drawn it from that point of view.

I've added a signal on the down main that wasn't on your diagram; otherwise I haven't altered it at all. No spares are shown but I have included the distants.

I hope this helps you to work your own numbering scheme out.

 

Thanks very much thats great.

 

The actual frame , will be on the other side, but I can easily reverse the numbering 

 

 

I note with interest your quite correct addition of " down main starter " , however I cant physically place it there , so it would have to be a Doll on the loop starter .

 

I dont think either catch point needs a dedicated lever , as they are " slaved " off their respective points or x-overs

 

I notice you left two ground discs off you diagram , was that intentional ? , and of course I have to add in the point in the approach to the goods shed, while not connected on the prototype , it is on mine 

 

Dave 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Junctionmad

[RailWest]

The two trap-points on the loop spurs have to have their own levers, as their function and operation is independent of the adjacent crossovers. Otherwise, the traps would be shut when they should be open, and open when they should be shut !

[Junctionmad]

The two trap-points on the loop spurs have to have their own levers, as their function and operation is independent of the adjacent crossovers. Otherwise, the traps would be shut when they should be open, and open when they should be shut !

 

surely  the trap is closed when the crossover is open , i.e. straight through roads and trap open when the crossover is set to x-over 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Junctionmad

[RailWest]

surely  the trap is closed when the crossover is open , i.e. straight through roads and trap open when the crossover is set to x-over 

The purpose of the trap would be to protect the passenger line from non-passenger (eg light engine) moves from the non-passenger spurs. It can't perform that purpose if it's closed most of the time :-)

 

As I said earlier, unless you actually intend to use the spurs for some traffic purpose (eg storing spare stock, light engines etc), then treat them as per the prototype - ie merely trap-roads against wrong-direction moves, but otherwise never occupied - so then you can scrap the traps and their dummies.

[Junctionmad]

The purpose of the trap would be to protect the passenger line from non-passenger (eg light engine) moves from the non-passenger spurs. It can't perform that purpose if it's closed most of the time :-)

 

As I said earlier, unless you actually intend to use the spurs for some traffic purpose (eg storing spare stock, light engines etc), then treat them as per the prototype - ie merely trap-roads against wrong-direction moves, but otherwise never occupied - so then you can scrap the traps and their dummies.

We find the Spurs useful so we will keep them , I do think on a model railway it would be a reasonable compromise to link them to the adjoining point , when the point is set for the road into the spur the trap is closed , when the point is set against the spur the trap is open ,( and the trap is doing its job ) I think the board of trade would be happy enough. The trap is actually open most of the time as the normal position for the down loop is the point is set into it. On the model it prevents silly errors where the trap is forgotten , but I’ll assign them a lever in the frame anyway Edited August 30, 2018 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

By the way , if anyone has a copy of the badminton signaling disgram , with numbers etc , I appreciate a scan , I would cover any associated costs if required

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Harlequin]

You could order the relevant CD from the Signalling Record Society: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S600.htm

 

Notice that there is a numbered diagram on that page but it's very low res and not possible to make out the numbers.

[Oldddudders]

You could order the relevant CD from the Signalling Record Society: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S600.htm.

I bought an equivalent Southern CD from them some years back. I found it to be a veritable treasure-trove of info. Excellent value if you are at all interested in signalling history for your prototype company.

[Junctionmad]

You could order the relevant CD from the Signalling Record Society: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwb/S600.htm

 

Notice that there is a numbered diagram on that page but it's very low res and not possible to make out the numbers.

 

as I said , Its listed as out of stock ( and its been that way for  a while )

[RailWest]

as I said , Its listed as out of stock ( and its been that way for  a while )

...but that link also gives you access to the Locking Table, which is readable. Admittedly, in the GWR fashion, it does not list the lever descriptions, and for some reason is incomplete, but careful comparison with the low-res diagram should enable you to work out quite a lot of the numbering. Sadly the 'lever leads' link only has about half a dozen entries :-(

[Harlequin]

as I said , Its listed as out of stock ( and its been that way for  a while )

Oh sorry! I should have been paying more attention. 

 

It still might be worth contacting them. I'm sure they'd be helpful.

[RailWest]

Oh sorry! I should have been paying more attention. 

 

It still might be worth contacting them. I'm sure they'd be helpful.

Well, checking the SRS website just now, the Bristol Division CD is NOT listed as out-of-stock. Alternatively, of course, you could order a paper copy of Badminton diagram on its own.

[Junctionmad]

Well, checking the SRS website just now, the Bristol Division CD is NOT listed as out-of-stock. Alternatively, of course, you could order a paper copy of Badminton diagram on its own.

I’m averse to snail mail. But the book stall section of the SRS shows it out of stock , I’ve emailed the bookstall

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[RailWest]

I’m averse to snail mail. But the book stall section of the SRS shows it out of stock , I’ve emailed the bookstall

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Curious - still IN stock according to their Drawing Office Cd sales page :-)

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/drawdiagrams.php 

[Junctionmad]

Spoke to them at Guildex , the CD is not available , the individual drawings can be ordered in dead tree format from the SRS drawing office

[Harlequin]

Spoke to them at Guildex , the CD is not available , the individual drawings can be ordered in dead tree format from the SRS drawing office

Hmmm, not good.

 

Do they not have a CD burner? Have they lost the master?

[Junctionmad]

Hmmm, not good.

 

Do they not have a CD burner? Have they lost the master?

Let’s be charitable and say they are rather confused over distribution strategy

 

Given they have it already digitized , I suggested why not sell the PDFs individually for download , much debate followed with mostly spurious arguments following .

 

The concept of “ writing a letter “ off to get a piece of dead tree is utterly archaic in my view ( not to mention inefficient and costly for overheads and hence resulting margins ). Surely the SRS can implement a better way , I mean there’s not much point of an archive , you can’t access

Edited September 2, 2018 by Junctionmad