85A Models Hunslet 15" 0-6-0ST - strip down

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Ray H said:

May I ask you a favour? The loco is quite noisy which we've put down to the interface between worm and gear wheel. I took it to the club yesterday to see how it performed on the longest length of dc track I have access too - probably no more than eight feet - and fear the noise may significantly affect the output from the sound decoder.

 

Am I correct in thinking that the careful application of some suitable grease will quieten things down a bit? The question is, what type of grease would you advise using?

 

I do have access to a rolling road and a dc controller at home here but I note the instructions make mention of excessive (continuous) use. Is it worth using the rolling road for a while and how long would you recommend?

 

Hi Ray,

 

The subject of lubrication for the Hunslet came up on the Templot forum recently. My reply is here:

 

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3495&forum_id=5#p27668

 

It's important not to use a Teflon type of grease, because that will seriously affect the split-axle pickup. You need a plastics-safe contact grease -- this appears to be suitable:

 

 https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/contact-cleaners/0566730/

 

I haven't actually tried it, so you must make your own tests. A supply of suitable grease was included with the original locos.

 

This grease also appears to be suitable, but is available only in a pack of 5 tubes:

 

 https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/greases/0556446/

 

The worm is nylon, running against a brass gear, so it shouldn't be noisy. The locos originally were no noisier than other RTR models, in fact quieter than most. If it is making a lot of noise I think something else must be wrong.

 

Perhaps the original nylon worm has been replaced with a metal one? There are gear-mesh adjusting screws on the motor mounting plate (originally sealed with yellow paint) which may help to reduce the noise if the worm is not the original. It's now over 20 years since the last of these models was made, so there is no knowing what state any of them is now in or how it has been used, maintained or modified.

 

The model was designed for normal intermittent layout use. I wouldn't recommend running it for long periods on a rolling road, and I don't know what that would achieve.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited March 14, 2020 by martin_wynne

[Ray H]

Thanks once again Martin.

 

The nylon worm is still there and the screws are still (apparently) sealed with the yellow paint.

 

I've ordered the suggested grease from RS - that was a surprise as I was expecting a minimum order handling charge.

 

I'm still wondering if the loco has ever been run.

[doilum]

23 hours ago, Ray H said:

Thanks once again Martin.

 

The nylon worm is still there and the screws are still (apparently) sealed with the yellow paint.

 

I've ordered the suggested grease from RS - that was a surprise as I was expecting a minimum order handling charge.

 

I'm still wondering if the loco has ever been run.

Possibly not. Don't forget a drop of lube on the crankpins. After all this time these can be brittle. It should run as sweetly as a modern kit using an ABC gearbox.

[Ray H]

Thanks for the tip about the crank pins.

 

The loco stops, starts & runs without any problems. The only downside is the noise that emanates from it when moving at anything other than a crawl.

[Ray H]

I should have added that the wires between pick-ups and motor have been successfully re-routed, cut to the most appropriate length and then twisted back together to make sure I hadn't done any damage whilst moving the wires.

 

Another question if I may. I'm using Dingham couplings. Is there an easy way to remove the original couplings so that I can use the same slot for the Dinghams?

[martin_wynne]

14 hours ago, Ray H said:

Another question if I may. I'm using Dingham couplings. Is there an easy way to remove the original couplings so that I can use the same slot for the Dinghams?

 

Hi Ray,

 

Assuming it is still fitted with the original 3-link couplings, the hooks are nylon. The recommended way of fitting was to heat-seal (melt) the shank of the hook behind the buffer beam. If that is the case, use flush-cutting snips or a craft knife to remove the melted part, and maybe carve a little from the back of the beam. The hook should then pull easily from the slot in the buffer beam. I don't know what is needed to fit Dingham couplings.

 

If the hook has been glued in with cyano gel or expoxy, proceed as above, but it will then need more force to remove. Sorry I don't know of any method to soften such adhesives without damaging the buffer beam plastic.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Ray H]

Thanks Martin.

 

The grease and sound decoder arrived today - you should have seen the size of the box RS used for the "tube" of grease and it came via Parcel Force not the plain post!

 

The grease has been applied and the decoder/speaker fitted. The YouChoos speaker fits under the front of the chassis, the super capacitor in the "slot" under the cab and the decoder in the coal bunker all three held in place with Black Tack.

 

Fortunately I shall only be shunting with the loco on a 9' long plank so having adjusted the relevant CVs accordingly, the sound the engine/gears/? makes is kept low enough by keeping the speed down not to adversely impact on the sound from the decoder.

 

Tomorrow's job is to fit the Dingham couplings.

 

Thanks once again for your help.

[O-Gauge-Phil]

Hi Ray, Can I just ask if you have used the grease and if it had the desired effect of reducing the gear noise?  I have an RG7 that’s become a little noisy since I cleaned the gearbox with brake and clutch cleaner.  

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Thanks

[doilum]

Silly question. Has the motor gone dry? I know that checking this will be more complicated than a conventional brass kit, but would a drop of very fine oil on the end bearings do the trick? I mention this as it appears to be a speed related issue. If a gearbox is at fault, it tends to be noisy at all speeds and more so in one direction.

[O-Gauge-Phil]

After I cleaned it I gave it a light oiling with clock oil.  I removed it from the chassis so I think it had a good soaking, then I cleaned off the excess. I didn’t oil the motor though!  Thought that they would be sealed for life.  It could just be me as I’m a bit fussy, with a short memory, I’m not entirely sure if it’s louder or not.  It’s not very loud but you can hear it sounds like gears rattling irrespective of the speed.  I suspect the dirt on the gears was keeping it quiet.

 

Someone else remarked on how quiet it was compared to a worm. I think the oil is much thicker when you get it out of the box, quite sticky.  Once the sound is on you can’t hear anything. My main concern is this wearing out the gearbox.

 

Many Thanks 

Phil

Edited March 19, 2020 by O-Gauge-Phil

[doilum]

Just a tiny drop where the shaft exits the motor casing should do. I couldn't work out how to dismantle mine without terminal collateral damage. Fortunately it is one of the sweetest runners amongst my dozen or so pit locomotives several of which boast a Canon / ABC power train. One day I will get round to swapping over the pickup wires as it runs in the opposite direction to all the others.

[polybear]

I did read that you should only oil the gear-end of the shaft, and not the other end.  Have a search on RMWeb, also Scalefour Forum....

[Ray H]

The decoder & speaker are in and working well.

 

The grease suggested by Martin has been applied.

 

The loco has had intermittent running on a rolling road - intermittent so that the motor doesn't get too hot. It also had a few spins around the club layout last evening, a couple in each direction running light and then with three parcels vehicles in tow.

 

I generally kept the speed down below that at which the noise of the motor tends to be audible above the sound from the decoder. I haven't tried it this morning here at home where I should be able to assess whether last night's outing has had any impact on the model's noise level better than I can at the club which is much larger than our garage. :-)

 

I think the grease may have had a slight affect. I will also try a drop of clock oil on the shaft and report back.

 

The Dingham couplings are in and working. I'd already semi-permanently fitted the speaker at the front of the chassis so had snipped off the back of the original coupling. I tried releasing the hook end but only succeeded in that coming away with the slot in the buffer beam blocked. I managed to drill and file the slot clear enough to fit the replacement Dingham. I also trimmed the backs of the Dinghams to a suitable length and have secured both in place using UHU. That seems to have worked as the hooks didn't pull out last night!

[Ray H]

A drop of oil on the worm end of the motor hasn't made a noticeable difference but I'm fairly sure that yesterday's trip to the club's layout has made a difference. Fortunately the loco won't be racing around my layout so the noise from the mechanism shouldn't be too intrusive.

 

Thanks to all for your suggestions/guidance.