Freight trains, late 60s,early 70s.

[On the block Allan]

In the late 60s and early 70s at a time when everyday run of the mill freight would not run on Saturday afternoons and Sundays, (my observations) would there have been any M.G.R or Oil trains shown in the W.T.T to run on a regular basis on Saturday afternoons and Sundays?            Allan.

[The Johnster]

Not oil or MGR, but the Baglan Bay-Middlewich sodium chloride hoppers ran 7 days a week.  The Herbranston-Langley tanks, which carried aviation spirit for such piston engined aircraft as still used Heathrow Airport in the 70s, may have done as well.  There were a number of Freightliner services that ran on Sundays as well.

[18B]

Tunstead hoppers ran everyday including Boxing Day throughout the 1970s and 80s, the hindlow runs everyday as well

[The Stationmaster]

A regular feature on the Western was the running of specials, especially on Sundays when traincrew were more likely to be available, to clear surplus traffic out of South Wales towards Acton.  Mainly coal but as the concentration depots took over more and more domestic coal supply so the need dropped off.

[Gwiwer]

I recall that local residents of the day suggested that one reason little or no traffic ran on Sundays (quite apart from the much more strict and widespread religious adherence then than now) was to give those whose homes backed onto the line at the many goods yards a bitt of a break from whistles, creaking tracks and ever-clunking wagon buffers and other shunting sounds.

 

Family friends had homes which backed onto the former goods yards at Worthing Central and West Drayton; I suspect they might have been creative with their story-telling but they had a point about "Silent Sundays"

[The Johnster]

I think church attendance and observing Sundays in that way was pretty much a minority thing by the 60s, and had little effect on railway timetabling, though I'll accept that a degree of cultural established practice was a factor.  It suited the railways to have a quiet day of the week for maintenance of stock and track, and certainly there was less passenger demand for services on Sunday.  Freight traffic largely followed the customers' requirements, and in the case of bulk flows of mineral or steel traffic arrangement had long been in place to ensure that stocks of materials for processing into something else or the heating that was needed for whatever the process was to cover a steelworks, oil refinery, or power station's requirements for the weekend.

 

But some traffic is time sensitive, and when I first started as a guard at Canton in 1970 the Marshfield milk train still ran on xmas day, the only guard's job out of the depot on that day.  I never worked it at xmas, and the practice ceased the following year.  I have no idea if other milk traffic ran at xmas.

 

Re the Middlewich-Baglan Bay sodium chloride empties, I once worked one as far as Margam Moors for stabling on a xmas eve.  I'd booked on 14.00 spare with a driver and secondman, expecting to be sent home in the early evening, but the train crew supervisor rang down to the mess room at about 5 o'clock and apologetically explained that he had a job for me.  I was to relieve a Hereford guard at Cardiff Central (otherwise he couldn't get his last cushions home) and work the train down with a Margam driver who had relieved it at Hereford.  

 

This meant that I would not be able to be rescued from Margam Moors in time to get back to Canton to book off before the railway shut down for xmas, and I was given the telephone number of a Port Talbot taxi firm who would take me home at any time I liked from wherever I liked on a British Rail account.  The Margam driver proved a friendly sort and great company, and with little traffic left running we left Cardiff at about 18.30 and were shutting the loco down and putting the handbrake on at Margam Moors about 45 minutes later; I'd been told to allow the tail lamp to burn itself out.  

 

At this point Margam suggested going for a beer, it being xmas, and drove me in his car to the British Steel staff club, where his brother was a member.  A fine evening ensued; the club had booked Max Boyce as entertainment and there was a stripper.  I phoned my taxi in a very pleasant state of inebriation and he duly turned up to collect me, at some godawful time in the small wee hours from the club, and delivered me home; I slept most of the journey, having had a great night out and not having been allowed to put my hand in my pocket by Margam, his brother, or any of his mates!  

 

The TCM at Canton booked me off at 6am with his own signature, ensuring that I was paid a hefty wodge at Bank Holiday rate and got a day off in lieu. It seemed like a shame to take the money, especially as I hadn't spent any, but not so much of a shame as to prevent me taking it, you understand...  It was this sort of generosity that meant that we were always happy to help them out if they were a bit stuck, and is sadly absent from modern practice.

 

I have been strident in my comments about Margam marshalling yard and it's competence to prepare a train occasionally on this forum, but will not hear a word against the shed or it's traincrews.  

[br2975]

A brief snapshot of South Wales MGR workings for 1971/1972 says 'no'

 

Aberthaw / Barry MGR workings 1971-1972

.

6O88 14:03   Barry High Level – Stormstown 15:10 (via Cardiff Gen).
6O88 16:20   Stormstown – Aberthaw 17:50 (via Radyr Quarry)
6O88 19:00  Aberthaw – Barry High Level 19:25
6O88 20:55   Barry High Level – Ocean & Taff Merthyr 22:54 (via Cardiff Gen).
6O88 00:09 MX  Ocean & Taff Merthyr – Aberthaw 02:15 (via Radyr Quarry)
-----------------
6O89 16:30   Barry High Level – Blaenant
6O89 20:30  Blaenant – Aberthaw 23:31
6O89 21:50   Aberthaw – Barry High Level 22:15
-----------------
6O90 02:55 MX Barry High Level – Black Lion 04:33 (via Radyr Quarry)
6O90 06:03 MX Black Lion – Aberthaw 07:50 
6O90 09:15  MO  Barry High Level – Blaenant
6O90 09:31 MX Aberthaw – Blaenant
6O90 13:00   Blaenant – Aberthaw 15:10
6O90 16:20  Aberthaw – Barry High Level

-----------------
6O92 05:25 MX Barry High Level – Blaenant
6O92 05:47 MO Aberthaw – Blaenant
6O92 09:20  Blaenant – Aberthaw 11:20
6O92 13:45  Aberthaw – Blaenant
6O92 17:12  Blaenant – Aberthaw 19:21 (not 18/05/71-17/09/71)
6O92 17:12  Blaenant – Aberthaw 19:46 (18/05/71-17/09/71 only)
6O92 20:50   Aberthaw – Barry High Level 21:15
-----------------
6O97 01:30 MX Barry High Level – Ocean & Taff Merthyr 03:05 (via Cardiff Gen).
6O97 04:35 MX Ocean & Taff Merthyr – Aberthaw 06:49 (via Radyr Quarry)
6O97 08:45 MO Barry High Level – Grovesend 10:32
6O97 09:00 MX Aberthaw – Grovesend 10:32
6O97 11:35   Grovesend – Aberthaw 13:12
6O97 14:42  Aberthaw – Barry High Level 15:07

[br2975]

I have been strident in my comments about Margam marshalling yard and it's competence to prepare a train occasionally on this forum, but will not hear a word against the shed or it's traincrews.  

 

'Margam men' have popped up hereabouts before.

.

I have been told by a few sources how the management approached the unions, to engage in the late 1960s early 1970s freight reorganisation in South Wales..

.

My sources agreed, every branch effected took part - except Margam.

.

At a subsequent meeting, held in the Temple of Peace, Cathays Park, Cardiff - the management proposals were put to the unions, with only one branch objecting, Margam, and their representatives were 'put in their place' by other reps, 'because they'd refused to take part in the project, they could have helped smooth the way for their members, but chose not to, so their opinions were rejected....by fellow trades unionists' 

.

So, the reorganisations went ahead, saving a number of locomotives, and resulted in increased efficiency - and 'Blockplan' was born.

 

Brian R

[The Johnster]

A brief snapshot of South Wales MGR workings for 1971/1972 says 'no'

 

Aberthaw / Barry MGR workings 1971-1972

.

6O88 14:03   Barry High Level – Stormstown 15:10 (via Cardiff Gen).

6O88 16:20   Stormstown – Aberthaw 17:50 (via Radyr Quarry)

6O88 19:00  Aberthaw – Barry High Level 19:25

6O88 20:55   Barry High Level – Ocean & Taff Merthyr 22:54 (via Cardiff Gen).

6O88 00:09 MX  Ocean & Taff Merthyr – Aberthaw 02:15 (via Radyr Quarry)

-----------------

6O89 16:30   Barry High Level – Blaenant

6O89 20:30  Blaenant – Aberthaw 23:31

6O89 21:50   Aberthaw – Barry High Level 22:15

-----------------

6O90 02:55 MX Barry High Level – Black Lion 04:33 (via Radyr Quarry)

6O90 06:03 MX Black Lion – Aberthaw 07:50 

6O90 09:15  MO  Barry High Level – Blaenant

6O90 09:31 MX Aberthaw – Blaenant

6O90 13:00   Blaenant – Aberthaw 15:10

6O90 16:20  Aberthaw – Barry High Level

-----------------

6O92 05:25 MX Barry High Level – Blaenant

6O92 05:47 MO Aberthaw – Blaenant

6O92 09:20  Blaenant – Aberthaw 11:20

6O92 13:45  Aberthaw – Blaenant

6O92 17:12  Blaenant – Aberthaw 19:21 (not 18/05/71-17/09/71)

6O92 17:12  Blaenant – Aberthaw 19:46 (18/05/71-17/09/71 only)

6O92 20:50   Aberthaw – Barry High Level 21:15

-----------------

6O97 01:30 MX Barry High Level – Ocean & Taff Merthyr 03:05 (via Cardiff Gen).

6O97 04:35 MX Ocean & Taff Merthyr – Aberthaw 06:49 (via Radyr Quarry)

6O97 08:45 MO Barry High Level – Grovesend 10:32

6O97 09:00 MX Aberthaw – Grovesend 10:32

6O97 11:35   Grovesend – Aberthaw 13:12

6O97 14:42  Aberthaw – Barry High Level 15:07

 

Drifting from topic a little, I learned the road over the Vale of Glamorgan route with 6O90 in the summer of 1970.  It was an interesting working; you ran around at Jersey Marine yard where an air braked brake van was attached to what became the rear of the train by gravity shunting from the point it had been left on the hump at the south end of the yard.  The layout at Blaenant was a simple loop through the hopper loading facility, which could load 3 MGR hoppers simultaneously.  The method was to run up the valley past the colliery and stop the train with the setter in the van when it was past the 'top' points; the loco was out of sight around a curve in a heavily wooded and narrow valley.  

 

You then, with the aid of a travelling shunter you'd picked up at Jersey Marine, allowed the train to drop back under gravity, controlling it with the van setter, and stopping it 3 hoppers at a time for loading.  Once the driver was in sight of things, he took over, but you'd loaded half the train by this time, an operation that took some very considerable skill on the part of all concerned.  Once the train was fully loaded, the loco drew forward to clear it inside the loop and ran around, running back to Jersey with the van as the first vehicle.  A most enjoyable week on days with a friendly and informative Barry crew.

 

While all this was going on in 1970, an emu (the bird, not the train) had escaped from Pensycynor Bird Gardens, a now long defunct local tourist attraction which backed on to the N & B line, and we were asked to look out for it and report any sightings.  This led to all sorts of thing being reported by the Barry crews; lions, tigers, herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically across the Serengeti, the odd dinosaur, everything but emu, which we reckoned had started a new career in showbiz with Rod Hull.  i wonder if that sort of thing could be got away with nowadays without the entire railway being shut down for risk assessment or something..

[The Stationmaster]

'Margam men' have popped up hereabouts before.

.

I have been told by a few sources how the management approached the unions, to engage in the late 1960s early 1970s freight reorganisation in South Wales..

.

My sources agreed, every branch effected took part - except Margam.

.

At a subsequent meeting, held in the Temple of Peace, Cathays Park, Cardiff - the management proposals were put to the unions, with only one branch objecting, Margam, and their representatives were 'put in their place' by other reps, 'because they'd refused to take part in the project, they could have helped smooth the way for their members, but chose not to, so their opinions were rejected....by fellow trades unionists' 

.

So, the reorganisations went ahead, saving a number of locomotives, and resulted in increased efficiency - and 'Blockplan' was born.

 

Brian R

 

Blockplan hit consultation problems elsewhere as well (Radyr being one such location) but implementation was usually 'bought off' by providing extra jobs in the yards.  It did of course also spell the end for a number of traincrew depots and the rundown of some smaller yards (e.g Stormstown).  But the best thing about it was that it worked and worked well.

[AberdeenBill]

-----------------

6O97 01:30 MX Barry High Level – Ocean & Taff Merthyr 03:05 (via Cardiff Gen).

6O97 04:35 MX Ocean & Taff Merthyr – Aberthaw 06:49 (via Radyr Quarry)

6O97 08:45 MO Barry High Level – Grovesend 10:32

6O97 09:00 MX Aberthaw – Grovesend 10:32

6O97 11:35   Grovesend – Aberthaw 13:12

6O97 14:42  Aberthaw – Barry High Level 15:07

 

Interesting head-codes with the letter O.  Didn't that normally signify an inter-regional train bound for the Southern Region? 

 

Bill

[br2975]

Interesting head-codes with the letter O.  Didn't that normally signify an inter-regional train bound for the Southern Region? 

 

Bill

.

Correct.

.

But as none of these services ventured East of Cardiff, there was no real problem.

[br2975]

Blockplan hit consultation problems elsewhere as well (Radyr being one such location) but implementation was usually 'bought off' by providing extra jobs in the yards.  It did of course also spell the end for a number of traincrew depots and the rundown of some smaller yards (e.g Stormstown).  But the best thing about it was that it worked and worked well.

.

Stormstown was one casualty, another small yard to succumb was Ystrad Mynach, and I think Aber Junction also became a victim ? with more and more jobs becoming "out and back" from Radyr.

.

Abercynon closed as a signing on point at the same time.

.

But, as Mike says, on the whole, Blockplan was a success.

[Simon Lee]

The Ince to Barton of Humber ammonia train for the fertiliser plant was a 7 day week train. Long before the phrase "just in time" was coined.

 

On the Southern Sunday freights ran from Dover to Hither Green Continental depot also Willesden and Temple Mills to clear perishable traffic in time for Monday morning wholesale markets.

 

I lived in Hull in the 60s and 70s and there would be ad hoc workings to the docks if a ship was working Sunday in order to catch a tide.

[SED Freightman]

Following services on the South Eastern Division appeared in the SR Mandatory WTT, Section M, commencing 01/05/1972 :-

 

Saturday afternoons

 

6O93 0425 Bristol to Northfleet arr.1510 - Ety cement tanks

6Y32 0945 Earley to Hoo Jn arr.1245 - Ety oil tanks for Grain

7K69 1035 Queenborough Yd to Faversham arr.1201 - Called Ridham Dock & Sittingbourne, conveyed traffic as required

6K35 1154 Dover Marine to Faversham arr.1238 - Ld ferry wagons

6K41 1306 Richborough Power Stn to Hoo Jn arr.1455 - Ety oil tanks for Grain

8C93 1315 Grain to Hoo Jn arr.1405 - Ld oil tanks for 6K37 plus traffic as required

6K36 1318 Faversham to Dover Marine arr.1406 - Conveyed traffic as required

8R91 1328 Paddock Wood to Tonbridge W Yd arr.1340 - Ety ferry wagons ?

7R70 1404 Tonbridge W Yd to Ashford Yd arr 1517 - Conveyed traffic as required

8C83 1505 Hoo Jn to Grain arr.1554 - Ety oil tanks off 6K41 plus traffic as required

6M36 1515 Northfleet to Handsworth arr.? - Ld cement tanks

6K37 1530 Hoo Jn to Richborough Power Stn arr.1721 - Ld oil tanks

6O36 1755 Dunstable to Crayford arr.2159 - Ety cement tanks for Northfleet forward on 6O36 (Sun)

6K38 2006 Richborough Power Stn to Hoo Jn arr.2152 - Ety oil tanks for Grain

 

Sundays

 

8C89 0840 Grain to Hoo Jn arr.0930 - Ld oil tanks as required

7K62 1020 Dover Marine to Chatham Goods arr.1230 - Called at Faversham, conveyed ld ferry wagons

8C80 1430 Hoo Jn to Grain arr.1519 - Ety oil tanks as required

8C90 1605 Grain to Hoo Jn arr.1655 - Ld oil tanks as required

6V93 1856 Northfleet to Bristol arr.? - Ld cement tanks

6R43 2220 Dover Marine to Hither Green Continental Depot arr.0005 (Mon) - Loaded ferry wagons

6O36 2345 Crayford to Northfleet arr.2358 - Ety cement tanks ex Dunstable (Sat)

[br2975]

Blockplan hit consultation problems elsewhere as well (Radyr being one such location) but implementation was usually 'bought off' by providing extra jobs in the yards.  It did of course also spell the end for a number of traincrew depots and the rundown of some smaller yards (e.g Stormstown).  But the best thing about it was that it worked and worked well.

 

Using the previously mentioned demise of Abercynon as one example.

.

On Thursday, 13th. February, 1969 the following locos were stabled at Abercynon 

Cl.08:- 3749, 3822,

Cl.37:- 6906, 6958, 6970, 6974, 6997

.

Stage 2 of "Blockplan" was implemented a short time later, commencing 14th. April, 1969, and Abercynon ceased to be a stabling/signing on point.

.

From 14th. April, 1969, weekend stabling in the Cardiff Valleys was as follows.

Cardiff Canton:-  Cl.37 x3

Radyr:- ..............Cl.37 x16, Cl.08 x5

Aberdare:- .........Cl.37 x4, Cl.08 x1

Barry:- ...............Cl.47 x2, Cl.37 x2, Cl.08 x5

Llantrisant:- .......Cl.37 x2, Cl.08 x1

S.T.J:- ................Cl.37 x1

.

As an example, the following were stabled at Radyr on Sunday, 20th. April, 1969

Cl.08:- 3595, 3604, 3759, 4125,

Cl.37:- 6600, 6875, 6886, 6906, 6908, 6938, 6957, 6971, 6972, 6974, 6988, 6990, 6991, 6992, 6994,

6875 had worked the early morning Cardiff - Treherbert newspapers, and returned to Radyr for stabling

6971 & 6988 had been assigned P.W. workings.

.

Brian R.

[SED Freightman]

Blockplan hit consultation problems elsewhere as well (Radyr being one such location) but implementation was usually 'bought off' by providing extra jobs in the yards.  It did of course also spell the end for a number of traincrew depots and the rundown of some smaller yards (e.g Stormstown).  But the best thing about it was that it worked and worked well.

 

What was Blockplan ? Was it just a WR thing or was it a national scheme ?

[br2975]

What was Blockplan ? Was it just a WR thing or was it a national scheme ?

 

Takes a deep breath.

.

@Blockplan' was the name given to the reorganisation of freight operations in South Wales during the late 1960s and early 1970s.

.

The aim was to increase the number of (primarily coal) block trains running from pit/opencast to customer e.g. docks, steel works, power station etc and reduce the amount of marshalling en-route.

.

For example my local yard, Radyr, could find itself strangled, with coal trains queuing one behind the other between Radyr and Walnut Tree Junction (Taffs Well ) waiting for a train to leave the yard, so that train could enter.

.

The most noticeable feature was that all empty coal wagons returning to South Wales from 'England' would be routed to either East Usk Junction Yard (Newport) or Jersey Marine Yard (Swansea) where they would be marshalled into trains of 16tonners (pools), 21 tonners and hoppers,, and from where the empty wagons would be distributed as required, generally by timetabled freights. 

.

An increased number of paths serving House Coal Concentration Depots in 'England' were also allocated, with those trains running directly from Jersey Marine and/or Radyr.

.

In my case, it brought new, previously 'rare' traction to Radyr e.g. Tinsley Cl.37s for the Normanby Park trains (even a Cl.31 on high days and holidays), the occasional Warship for coal trains to Bristol, Wapping Wharf or coke to Avonmouth, and best of all Peaks working East Usk to Bargoed Pits (Rhymney Valley) empties and returning with coal for Penshaw.

 

The introduction of 'Blockplan' shut several small yards e.g. Stormstown, Ystrad Mynach etc and some stabling/signing on points, as it saved on a number of locomotives, which, with the introduction of Stage 2 in April, 1969 saw off the last surviving Cl.14s.

.

The reorganisation also saw the streamlining of steel services, with changing and reduced shunting between Llanelli and Severn Tunnel Junction, from where many trains departed for 'English' terminals having combined portions at STJ.

.

It also found enginemen and guards working to places in valleys they hadn't previously worked to.

 

That's about as brief as I can do it.

.

Brian R

Edited October 29, 2018 by br2975

[Phil Bullock]

What was the traffic on the Normanby Park trains Brian?

Phil

[The Johnster]

Interesting head-codes with the letter O.  Didn't that normally signify an inter-regional train bound for the Southern Region? 

 

Bill

 

Correct for inter-regional trains, but O was used to denote Merry-go-round workings (O = something that goes around, get it?) within the Cardiff Area (and possibly elsewhere);  the high reporting numbers were intended to avoid any possibility of confusion with inter-regional trains headed for the Southern Region from or passing through the area.  

 

Cardiff area's class 9 local workings used A, B, C and E at least and probably more as well that I have forgotten, again for work within the area; they would normally have denoted, respectively, trains bound for the London, Bristol, and Cardiff areas and the Eastern Region.

[br2975]

What was the traffic on the Normanby Park trains Brian?

 

Phil

 

8E46 12:46 Radyr - Normanby Park, coking coal for Appleby Frodingham, Scunthorpe steel works ?

.

The following may also have put in an appearance at Abbotswood ?

 

8E52 - Radyr - Treeton also coking coal.

.

8E55 - ThO Bargoed Pits - Penshaw

8E55 - TO  Radyr Quarry - Penshaw

.

8E63 - 04:55 Radyr - Scunthorpe, coking coal for Appleby Frodingham, Scunthorpe steel works ?

 

8M28 - Radyr - Stanton Gate (Stanton & Staveley ?)

.

8M65 - 01:50 Radyr - Corby, coking coal / block coal for Stewarts & Lloyds ? 

.

Brian R

[SED Freightman]

Brian,  Thanks for taking the trouble to expain 'Blockplan', the fact that it related to South Wales would explain why I had not come across any mention of it within old SR paperwork, albeit it was all well before I started in 1978.

[Phil Bullock]

8E46 12:46 Radyr - Normanby Park, coking coal for Appleby Frodingham, Scunthorpe steel works ?

.

The following may also have put in an appearance at Abbotswood ?

 

8E52 - Radyr - Treeton also coking coal.

.

8E55 - ThO Bargoed Pits - Penshaw

8E55 - TO  Radyr Quarry - Penshaw

.

8E63 - 04:55 Radyr - Scunthorpe, coking coal for Appleby Frodingham, Scunthorpe steel works ?

 

8M28 - Radyr - Stanton Gate (Stanton & Staveley ?)

.

8M65 - 01:50 Radyr - Corby, coking coal / block coal for Stewarts & Lloyds ? 

.

Brian R

 

Wonderful gen as always - many thanks Brian

 

So coking coal - coke produced at the steelworks?  rather than actual coke trains....

 

If coking coal rather than coke is that all in 16 tonners - or did 21 ton minerals/hoppers feature too....???

 

Phil

[br2975]

Brian,  Thanks for taking the trouble to expain 'Blockplan', the fact that it related to South Wales would explain why I had not come across any mention of it within old SR paperwork, albeit it was all well before I started in 1978.

 Under "Blockplan" there were a number of coal ( house coal generally)  trains destined for the Southern Region

.

e.g.

 

8O15 10:42 Jersey Marine – Hither Green or Norwood can be ‘Q’ from Radyr 

.

8O67 00:25 MO Jersey Marine – Eastleigh or 00:37 MX Jersey Marine – Eastleigh.  Both ‘Q’ from Radyr dep. 01:30

.

8O68 03:40 Jersey Marine – Wimbledon. ‘Q’ from Radyr dep.04:42

[The Stationmaster]

Wonderful gen as always - many thanks Brian

 

So coking coal - coke produced at the steelworks?  rather than actual coke trains....

 

If coking coal rather than coke is that all in 16 tonners - or did 21 ton minerals/hoppers feature too....???

 

Phil

 

Phil, the types of wagon depended on what the receiving works could deal with and what sort of wagons the supplying collieries could load.  For example the Radyr - Pensnett coke flow was in hoppers, I'm fairly sure the Entrance E traffic for Scunthorpe was in flats (i.e. flat floor mineral wagons) but we're stretching my memory back 45 years!