1967 Shap Photo of Mixed Freight Train with 3 Coaches in front

[FelixM]

Hi folks,

 

I stumbled across this photo and couldn't make sense of it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60631240@N02/36686545365/in/photostream/

 

To be seen is a Britannia with three Mk1 coaches (no brakes) complete with carriage roundel apparently and a mixed freight coupled behind.

 

Several questions arise to me. What is the reason for coaches in a freight train? Is the buffing gear of coaches up to handle freight train forces, especially when braking?

 

The train is also banked from the rear by a Class 40.

 

Thanks in advance for all comments.

[jonny777]

Presumably the coaches are on their way to a works visit - as may be some of the goods wagons. 

 

A few passenger trains over Shap loaded to 16 coaches, therefore the first one in the consist would have 15 others dragging behind, which is over 500 tons tare. I think the buffing gear was designed to cope with those kinds of loads. 

[Steamport Southport]

At that date most of the wagons would be vacuum fitted. Coaches possibly going for a repaint into blue/grey.

 

Quite sobering to think that loco would be withdrawn by the end of the month.

 

 

 

Jason

[Gibbo675]

Hi folks,

 

Is the buffing gear of coaches up to handle freight train forces, especially when braking?

 

Thanks in advance for all comments.

Hi Felix,

 

I repaired 45407 at Riley's some years back after it was involved in a collision with eight Mk1's at Rawtenstall station.

 

The black five ended up having its buffer beam removed the main frame plates straightened and replacement buffer gussets and drag box channels riveted to the buffer beam upon refitting, all that was damaged upon the coaches was shattered buffer collars.

 

Mk1's are quite strong !

 

Gibbo.

 

Edited for Jason's benefit !

Edited December 31, 2018 by Gibbo675

[Steamport Southport]

I didn't know they had a Patriot.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

The Brit is carrying a class 8 headcode, so the train is partially fitted with a 'vacuum head' connected to the loco, followed by the 'loose coupled' unfitted portion which will be braked on the descent by the handbrake in the guard's van.  The coaches are SKs or SOs, with a CK in the middle, marshalled correctly at the head of the train.  The fitted portion extends at least to the wagon in front of the first of the raft of tank wagons, which looks about right for a class 8's brake force, but possibly included the tanks.  The grey liveried minerals behind are a typical class 8 unfitted portion.

 

All trains were permitted to run to the top speed of the slowest rated wagon, but class 8s were timed to run at 35mph taking into account the braking distances needed to stop at signals.  The coaches do not look especially new or old, and it is most likely that they have been used as ad hoc strengtheners on some service or other and are being worked back empty to their home depot.

[Steamport Southport]

The roundels suggests they were in the "top link" sets. I still reckon they are going for a repaint as most of the express sets would be in B/G by 1968. Probably off to St Rollox.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

It's possible of course, but if they were top link coaches in regular diagram working, why not take them out of service closer to the works?  The WCML's named trains were pretty solidly blue/grey by late 1967, and most of the maroon liveried roundel survivors were cascaded to replace withdrawn Staniers by at least a year before this.

[The Stationmaster]

Right - let's get it right.

 

1. The train is lamped as a Class 7 (one lamp on the top bracket - relocated to the smokebox door on this engine, common LMR mod post electrification - and the other lamp on the bottom right hand bracket).

 

2.  Class 7 in 1967 was 'Express freight train not fitted with the automatic brake'.  Maximum permitted speed 40 mph

 

3. Prior to June 1962 it was not permitted to convey passenger coaching stock in unfitted freight freight trains however from the 18th of that month the prohibition was slightly eased to read as follows -  Unfitted Freight Trains, Instruction partly amended thus - 'Empty passenger carrying vehicles or passenger brake vans must not be conveyed on these trains except where specially authorised in any regional publication'

 

So in other words you couldn't do it unless there was a written notice or instruction authorising you to do it - we just used to show it in our Freight Train Notice as a preplanned item not that it happened very often on our part of the WR.  So odd as it might sound at this distance in time one of my colleagues sitting next to me in the office could quite legitimately insert such authority into our daily notice and a train could run legitimately formed like the one in the picture.

Edited January 1, 2019 by The Stationmaster