Great Canadian Railway Journeys

[31A]

 

They are actually class 643, but OC Transpo used them on the O-Train until 2015.

 

 

Sorry, but it looked very much like an ex DB 628 DMU to me!  Is not a 643 a Bombardier Talent (pointy ended modern unit)?  It must be quite unusual for a passenger train in North America to have European style buffers and screw couplings!

[melmerby]

Sorry, but it looked very much like an ex DB 628 DMU to me!  Is not a 643 a Bombardier Talent (pointy ended modern unit)?  It must be quite unusual for a passenger train in North America to have European style buffers and screw couplings!

Scroll down this link

http://traindecharlevoix.com/english/about-us/

 

They are ex-DB

As you say, very European with their side buffers and screw couplings.

 

keith

Edited January 19, 2019 by melmerby

[jsp3970]

Sorry, but it looked very much like an ex DB 628 DMU to me!  Is not a 643 a Bombardier Talent (pointy ended modern unit)?  It must be quite unusual for a passenger train in North America to have European style buffers and screw couplings!

 

 

Scroll down this link

http://traindecharlevoix.com/english/about-us/

 

They are ex-DB

As you say, very European with their side buffers and screw couplings.

 

keith

My apologies, I totally forgot about those units.

[31A]

Scroll down this link

http://traindecharlevoix.com/english/about-us/

 

They are ex-DB

As you say, very European with their side buffers and screw couplings.

 

keith

 

Thank you; I did look at their web site actually but found it very slow to load and didn't get as far as that page!

 

My apologies, I totally forgot about those units.

 

 

No worries!  I see what you mean about the O Train using Talents; I didn't know about that either.

[Pacific231G]

Sorry, but it looked very much like an ex DB 628 DMU to me!  Is not a 643 a Bombardier Talent (pointy ended modern unit)?  It must be quite unusual for a passenger train in North America to have European style buffers and screw couplings!

That's what made it look so un North American! I simply didn't twig that it had side buffers.

Presumably, if they only run as separate two car DMUs there's never been a reason to change them. In the USA there's long been a legal requirement for automatic couplers (usually AAR but these days also Scharfenberg) but I don't know about Canada particularly on a self contained operation like this.

[Legend]

Generally I enjoy the series . I thought Fridays episode was particularly enjoyable though. I’d certainly consider visiting the area around Quebec he was travelling in . Never even considered it before

[railroadbill]

Thought the series made that part of Canada look well worth a visit.

 

While Michael Portillo's programs are about travelling by train rather than trains, I was going to ask what the dmu was, but that's already been answered!

[dibber25]

Thought the series made that part of Canada look well worth a visit.

 

While Michael Portillo's programs are about travelling by train rather than trains, I was going to ask what the dmu was, but that's already been answered!

 

It is worth a visit. I liked Halifax very much. It's full of charming old buildings and has lots of waterfront and shipping action, too. The maritime museum contains the only surviving deck chair from the Titanic, and the Fairlawn Cemetery has a section in which 112 bodies of Titanic victims recovered from the ocean are buried. I found it very moving. (CJL)

[jsp3970]

Thought the series made that part of Canada look well worth a visit.

 

While Michael Portillo's programs are about travelling by train rather than trains, I was going to ask what the dmu was, but that's already been answered!

It certainly is a beautiful part of the country. I have driven through it and taken the train, although in both cases I was heading from Ontario to Newfoundland.  I now live in Western Canada and there is a totally different type of beauty out here. For anyone who has never been to Canada I recommend the visit, although in some parts the train service is bad, if it exists at all so don't count on getting around by train.

[melmerby]

Third and final week in Canada starts in Winnipeg Mon 28th.

 

Keith

[melmerby]

That's what made it look so un North American! I simply didn't twig that it had side buffers.

Presumably, if they only run as separate two car DMUs there's never been a reason to change them. In the USA there's long been a legal requirement for automatic couplers (usually AAR but these days also Scharfenberg) but I don't know about Canada particularly on a self contained operation like this.

I wonder whether the line has any other traffic apart from the "Train de Charlevoix"?

That train only runs from Chute de Montmorency to La Malbaie but the track extends northwards to a small industrial complex at Clermont about 10km further on (some wagons on Google Earth) and down to Quebec City itself complete with all the crossing gates etc.

 

This crossing just short of the northern limit looks like it hasn't had much use (2015) :

https://goo.gl/maps/iDPabgYBoMp

 

Whereas this is the Quebec end just before it joins the rest of the railway network:

Looking north:

https://goo.gl/maps/yfp14w2eGeL2

 

Looking south:

https://goo.gl/maps/3jwaaXBUoAA2

 

Keith

Edited January 23, 2019 by melmerby

[Pacific231G]

I've just watched the Vancouver and Victoria episodes and found them interesting. I'd always assumed that steam beer as in  Newquay Steam Beer was something dreamt up by the marketeers to produce a warm glow of nostalgia associated with steam trains and tall ships etc. so was intrigued by the use of steam rather than fire to heat the fermentation process. I then thought that was what the name really meant but delving a bit further it seems that' "steam" refers to the effecrvesnce and pressure in storage of the beer so my initial assumption may have been right. Apparently In the USA, Anchor has a monololy of the "steam beer" name but not elsewhere.

 

I think Portillo said there were no longer railways on Vancouver Island but, though it closed in 2011, the 234km long E&N line from Victoria is still intact and there are efforts to reopen it (though they currently appear stalled) 

 

BTW The pair of ex DB two car sets on the Train de Charlevoix are  two of the DB's three 628.1 sets. 628 102 and 628 103.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Pacific231G

[melmerby]

I think Portillo said there were no longer railways on Vancouver Island but, though it closed in 2011, the 234km long E&N line from Victoria is still intact and there are efforts to reopen it (though they currently appear stalled)

The E&N Roundhouse still exists:

Google Earth: https://goo.gl/maps/gjd3ggoGV5F2

 

360^o photo: https://goo.gl/maps/jP4pXTbqiCK2

 

But the line has been cut back to here, before the upper harbour crossing: https://goo.gl/maps/5PR1j5UcGBQ2

 

Keith

Edited January 23, 2019 by melmerby

[peach james]

E&N is still active, but trains only run on about 10 km of track in Nanaimo at present.  It's a political football (either American or European), that keeps getting bounced around.  The issue is that commuter rail is strictly OUT of VIA rail's mandate, and the line has limited freight opportunities due to cost downloading.  It's a typical road related issue- the exact same as the other island railway was (Englewood Forest Products), in that road is subsidised fairly heavily, but not rail. 

 

The economics are +/-, without freight over the Malahat, there is no reason to restore the rail line, but all the freight chances seem to have been urinated on into the wind.  It doesn't help that the last "management team" of Island Corridor Foundation seemed far more interested in collecting their salary and consultant fees over getting any repair work done.  

 

The bridge to Victoria proper- I strongly suspect that the City of Victoria is responsible to provide a rail crossing based on what I observed in the city archives.  I've never really gone and had a deep dig, but I did spend an afternoon looking, and suspect that the agreement between CPR & the City was that the city was to provide a rail crossing in perpetuity to the CPR...the opposite of Thunder Bay.  

 

So, will our island see standard gauge again?  Stay tuned...it depends on political will (or won't).  The Malahat is a continual source of friction, because there is no really effective way around any incident.  (it's about a 4 hour detour to avoid if an incident happens...)

 

James

[melmerby]

The bridge to Victoria proper- I strongly suspect that the City of Victoria is responsible to provide a rail crossing based on what I observed in the city archives.  I've never really gone and had a deep dig, but I did spend an afternoon looking, and suspect that the agreement between CPR & the City was that the city was to provide a rail crossing in perpetuity to the CPR...the opposite of Thunder Bay.  

 

 

James

Hi James

Where in Victoria did the trains terminate?

Even in 2011 there were only a few cars length of track left on the east side of the bridge, appearing to be heading for Store St. but cut short.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/zMK6KGZwY6D2

 

On the latest views (may 2018) the bridge itself seems to be virtually all gone with the new Johnson Street bascule bridge and approach roads completely obliterating the trackbed:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/dmq2rMajyRU2

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Edited January 23, 2019 by melmerby

[peach james]

The train terminated literally "just" in Victoria.  Way back in 2001/2 when Pacific Wilderness was running, they would be stopped on the bridge.  The trackage continued to the left of the bridge onto Store Street, and ended in Albion yard (CP description), with spurs extending into the parking lot now in front of Capital Iron.  Capital Iron had its own rail line, which did not connect to CP in the 40's/50's (the era of M/V Sudbury & Sudbury II).  The propane supply for Victoria was also on the waterfront, coming over in tank cars.

 

Basically, the area north of Pandora in https://www.google.com/maps/@48.4296752,-123.3712735,343m/data=!3m1!1e3was where Albion Yard was.  The buildings were rail served for the most part.  It is unknown if the line crossed Government.  

 

This line at one point connected via streetcar track to Ogden Point, and reputedly into the 40's occasional cars would travel that way.  (Ogden point had a major grain elevator, served by barging boxcars over and unloading them...and you thought government pork barreling was new !)

 

There is a largely inactive group on Railfan.net with a bunch of historic info on railroads on the island.  http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=Vancouver

 

James

[railroadbill]

It is worth a visit. I liked Halifax very much. It's full of charming old buildings and has lots of waterfront and shipping action, too. The maritime museum contains the only surviving deck chair from the Titanic, and the Fairlawn Cemetery has a section in which 112 bodies of Titanic victims recovered from the ocean are buried. I found it very moving. (CJL)

Halifax also has the only surviving Flower class corvette, HMCS Sackville, as a museum ship. If I ever manage to get there (and we have looked at a fly-drive trip to that part of Canada) that would be worth seeing.

 

Stanley Park that Michael Portillo visited in Vancouver also has (had?) a maritime museum that holds RCMP St Roch, first ship to traverse the north west passage both ways. Odd that such a trip should be carried out by a police crew. Think this is in Stanley park but it's a very long time ago that I was there.

 

Just caught up with this week's programs on iplayer,  interesting series.  Michael Portillo is very good on the economic and political history of the places he visits.

[pH]

Stanley Park that Michael Portillo visited in Vancouver also has (had?) a maritime museum that holds RCMP St Roch, first ship to traverse the north west passage both ways. Odd that such a trip should be carried out by a police crew. Think this is in Stanley park but it's a very long time ago that I was there.

 

The Vancouver Maritime Museum, where the St. Roch is displayed, is in Vanier Park in Kitsilano.

 

In addition to being the first ship to go through the Northwest Passage in both directions, St. Roch was the first ship to circumnavigate North America, having also sailed from Halifax, Nova Scotia, to Vancouver through the Panama Canal.

Edited January 24, 2019 by pH

[railroadbill]

The Vancouver Maritime Museum, where the St. Roch is displayed, is in Vanier Park in Kitsilano.

 

In addition to being the first ship to go through the Northwest Passage in both directions, St. Roch was the first ship to circumnavigate North America, having also sailed from Halifax, Nova Scotia, to Vancouver through the Panama Canal.

Thanks, I know i saw it when I visited Vancouver - but a while ago. A major achievement for a small ship.

Edited January 25, 2019 by railroadbill

[railroadbill]

In last night's episode (Thurs) Michael Portillo was on the "Rocky Mountaineer", which he said was the only passenger train to travel on the old Canadian Pacific tracks through the rockies. On Monday in Vancouver he talked to someone about to travel on the "Canadian"  which was going to Toronto. Does that train go on the old Canadian National route?

 

I thought the Canadian was long gone, presumably now reinstated or run by a private company like the Rocky Mountaineer? Seemed to have the old Budd stainless steel cars it used to have, but you could only see the end of the train on the program. .

[Pacific231G]

In last night's episode (Thurs) Michael Portillo was on the "Rocky Mountaineer", which he said was the only passenger train to travel on the old Canadian Pacific tracks through the rockies. On Monday in Vancouver he talked to someone about to travel on the "Canadian"  which was going to Toronto. Does that train go on the old Canadian National route?

 

I thought the Canadian was long gone, presumably now reinstated or run by a private company like the Rocky Mountaineer? Seemed to have the old Budd stainless steel cars it used to have, but you could only see the end of the train on the program. .

The 2019 timetable for the Vancouver-Toronto "Canadian" is definitely on Via Rail's website and its route through western Canada includes Vancouver,  Kamloops, Jasper Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg. I assume that's the CN route- especially as two of its stops are marked (CN Station) According to the current timetable  It runs as train no 2 twice a week year round from Vancouver to Toronto and, after April,  on a third day from Vancouver to  Edmonton as train no 4. That train is marked as "new" so I don't know if it's an added service or the third train in the full summer service curtailed.

It still uses the 1954-55 bullt Budd stainelss steel cars including a couple of dome cars and carries passengers in three classes, Prestige, Sleeper Plus and Economy with the economy passengers only using two of the nine coaches (not including the restaurant car) This suggests that it is providing transportation rather than just the land cruise. "experience" that I believe is the Rocky Mountaineer offers. 

 

Looking at their fleet list of coaches to see what they are using on the Canadian I discovered that Via Rail are the only remaining operators of Budd RDCs for regular services. (update: except possibly for one still working in Cuba)

Edited January 26, 2019 by Pacific231G

[melmerby]

In last night's episode (Thurs) Michael Portillo was on the "Rocky Mountaineer", which he said was the only passenger train to travel on the old Canadian Pacific tracks through the rockies. On Monday in Vancouver he talked to someone about to travel on the "Canadian"  which was going to Toronto. Does that train go on the old Canadian National route?

 

I thought the Canadian was long gone, presumably now reinstated or run by a private company like the Rocky Mountaineer? Seemed to have the old Budd stainless steel cars it used to have, but you could only see the end of the train on the program. .

Via Rail run from Vancouver to Toronto (Via Kamloops):

https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/rockies-and-pacific

 

How much of that is on CP tracks?

 

Here is the Rocky Mountaineer routes:

https://www.rockymountaineer.com/routes_destinations?ds_rl=1251075&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4m-gPiI4AIVSbftCh3Z7wcvEAAYASABEgLCuvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Keith

[mdvle]

In last night's episode (Thurs) Michael Portillo was on the "Rocky Mountaineer", which he said was the only passenger train to travel on the old Canadian Pacific tracks through the rockies. On Monday in Vancouver he talked to someone about to travel on the "Canadian"  which was going to Toronto. Does that train go on the old Canadian National route?

 

I thought the Canadian was long gone, presumably now reinstated or run by a private company like the Rocky Mountaineer? Seemed to have the old Budd stainless steel cars it used to have, but you could only see the end of the train on the program. .

 

The Canadian is operated by VIA Rail, a crown corporation (aka government owned), who took it over from CP when both CN and CP got out of the passenger business in the late 70s.

 

In 1990 budget cuts from the government resulted in the cancellation of the former CN Super Continental, and the move of the Canadian from CPR tracks to essentially the former Super Continental route.

 

It continues to operate with the 1955 Budd equipment, which has undergone (and continues to) various upgrades over the years.

[dibber25]

Hi James

Where in Victoria did the trains terminate?

Even in 2011 there were only a few cars length of track left on the east side of the bridge, appearing to be heading for Store St. but cut short.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/zMK6KGZwY6D2

 

On the latest views (may 2018) the bridge itself seems to be virtually all gone with the new Johnson Street bascule bridge and approach roads completely obliterating the trackbed:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/dmq2rMajyRU2

 

Cheers

 

Keith

Here's the before and after views of the E&N terminus in Victoria. Not only has the train gone, so has the station and even the bridge. Restoration of passenger service would no longer be viable because the whole route including two massive steel trestle bridges, needs rebuilding from the ground up. The Island Corridor Foundation holds out the hope of re-opening but its all smoke and mirrors. Islanders love their cars. There was only one train a day and it went the wrong way (out of town in the morning, back in the afternoon). That was fine when you're encouraging pioneers to go out into the country in the early 20th century but its useless in today's world when people want to go into the city for the day for work or leisure. The spectre of VIA Rail not carrying commuters is trotted out endlessly as an excuse, but fact is VIA Rail doesn't (and shouldn't) classify its passengers. It carries plenty of people going to and from work in the Windsor-Montreal, Ottawa corridor. What it can't do is set up purely commuter operations. The RDC 6133 in the 1990s picture is the one now owned by Jason Shron and Rapido Trains. The Johnson Street bridge was said to be in such bad condition that it had to be dismantled, yet it was sold for further use elsewhere. I've been visiting and studying the Island's rail systems since my first visit in 1976. I was predicting the demise of the E&N long ago and the only surprise was that it lasted until 2011. Finally, the last picture shows how you stopped the Budd car at some of the intermediate stations back in 1976. Yes, that IS a station! There was little or no ballast, lots of weeds, and many of the sleepers were rotten, even back then. CJL)

[dibber25]

The 2019 timetable for the Vancouver-Toronto "Canadian" is definitely on Via Rail's website and its route through western Canada includes Vancouver,  Kamloops, Jasper Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg. I assume that's the CN route- especially as two of its stops are marked (CN Station) According to the current timetable  It runs as train no 2 twice a week year round from Vancouver to Toronto and, after April,  on a third day from Vancouver to  Edmonton as train no 4. That train is marked as "new" so I don't know if it's an added service or the third train in the full summer service curtailed.

It still uses the 1954-55 bullt Budd stainelss steel cars including a couple of dome cars and carries passengers in three classes, Prestige, Sleeper Plus and Economy with the economy passengers only using two of the nine coaches (not including the restaurant car) This suggests that it is providing transportation rather than just the land cruise. "experience" that I believe is the Rocky Mountaineer offers. 

 

Looking at their fleet list of coaches to see what they are using on the Canadian I discovered that Via Rail are the only remaining operators of Budd RDCs for regular services.

 

The only Budd RDCs now operated by VIA Rail are an RDC-2 (passenger car with buffet/crew area) and an RDC-4 (baggage only). The cars have been heavily rebuilt to modern standards and each has a cab at one end only, so they run as a two-car unit. They operate three times a week between Sudbury, Ontario and White River, around 300 miles over the original CP transcontinental route. There are only six places en route accessible by road and the train stops at fishing lodges and mile posts on request. I did the journey last August and it was FABULOUS. A long time since I've enjoyed a train trip so much. White River is a handful of houses, two motels and two gas stations, and is the place where Winnie the Pooh originated - a story that's too long to go into. I'll see if I can find my photo of White River station (derelict, of course) where I was almost the only passenger waiting at 6.30am to catch the train back to Sudbury! Chris Tarrant did the trip on his extreme railways series but it might be too extreme for Portillo. (CJL)

PS VIA No. 4 - the 'new' train, is the third transcontinental curtailed in order to try to get better time-keeping. Some services ran as much as 45 hours late in 2018 due to CN prioritising its freight traffic.

Edited January 25, 2019 by dibber25