Theatre Indicators

[TheSignalEngineer]

Lunar white in indicators with traditional bulbs was created by using a blue filter in front of the indication.

[Suzie]

I just have recollection of seeing the theatres on the approach to Liverpool Street having a yellow appearance.

[Grovenor]

Earlier indicators came without the blue filter.

Regards

[The Stationmaster]

I just have recollection of seeing the theatres on the approach to Liverpool Street having a yellow appearance.

 

Later the the yellowy orange was supposed to be used only for indications on the rear side but I'm reasonably sure that the NE Region had some with the yellowy orange at the front.

[E3109]

Just to add, when receiving the theatre indication for Wembley Relief (at Wembley Central) the theatre box displays 'wR' [sic], ie lower case 'w'.

This theatre is new style LEDs by the way, but I'd expect that its predecessor was similar.

Presumably because 'w' is a wider-than-normal letter.

No doubt the same reason why V was used on headcode boxes rather than W, to denote the Western Region.

[russ p]

Later the the yellowy orange was supposed to be used only for indications on the rear side but I'm reasonably sure that the NE Region had some with the yellowy orange at the front.

I can't recall orange on the front but certainty the rear ones were orange.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Without any filters the colour of the indication depended on the lamp voltage. In most cases signalling lamps were under-run, say 11.2 -11.5 volts for 12 volt lamps and 100 volts for 110 volt lamps.

Edited January 20, 2019 by TheSignalEngineer

[Richie Kynaston]

Guys,

Thanks for all the input, certainly stimulating the conversation, that is not only useful but interesting!!

 

Im thinking warm white LEDs may be the way forward thinking of the old colour of the bulbs, rather than pure white.

 

There are suitable dot matrix displays available to make 7mm sized ones, but you have to be imaginative for 4mm and use the displays on their side to give a 2-digit display with 5 x 3 fonts or 1.5 digit display with 5 x 5 fonts. A bit limiting but modelling is compromise. The hardest thing is getting hold of yellow displays, I don't think they were lunar white!

 

Another possibility is to use 7-segment displays which are available in 4mm size, or at least the digit is, but you have to hide the surround. A mask with holes in can be placed over the 7-segment display to give the impression of individual lamps, but you will be a bit limited as to which letters are available.

 

 

Thanks Suzie, the problem with 7mm displays is the limitation of characters, plus the appearance is not like the old bulb theatre indicators.  Its probably just me being too pedantic tho!  But your idea of a mask with holes in, is an option.  I'll see how this development comes out and take it from there.

 

Richie

[bécasse]

I do think that you have been over-thinking this because, unless you can view the indicator head-on (which presumably viewers won't be able to), you will only be able to see that there is a display, and not what it reads, in 4mm scale. That to me suggests a mask with pin-prick holes which represent something but nothing specific mounted in front of a single LED - which should be "easily" accomplishable.

 

Incidentally I would take exactly the same line with mechanical indicators so that one could see that there is an indication when the arm is off but not what it reads.

[Richie Kynaston]

I do think that you have been over-thinking this because, unless you can view the indicator head-on (which presumably viewers won't be able to), you will only be able to see that there is a display, and not what it reads, in 4mm scale. That to me suggests a mask with pin-prick holes which represent something but nothing specific mounted in front of a single LED - which should be "easily" accomplishable.

 

Incidentally I would take exactly the same line with mechanical indicators so that one could see that there is an indication when the arm is off but not what it reads.

 

 

I think its one of those things, of each to their own.  For example, an indicator not working properly or displaying the wrong letter would annoy me, because I like signalling to work and be correct.  The same way as many people would say an Intercity Class 90 on Gresley Teaks is just plain wrong (I agree btw!).  Other's are happy to have signals on their layout so they 'look right' but may not work, or are just happy to run trains, regardless of whether the combinations are right.  It is, as they say a broad congregation!

 

For me, this was as much a challenge of say could I achieve it and making it work, than it was to say it had to work, be to scale and be correct.

[bécasse]

I think its one of those things, of each to their own.  For example, an indicator not working properly or displaying the wrong letter would annoy me, because I like signalling to work and be correct.  The same way as many people would say an Intercity Class 90 on Gresley Teaks is just plain wrong (I agree btw!).  Other's are happy to have signals on their layout so they 'look right' but may not work, or are just happy to run trains, regardless of whether the combinations are right.  It is, as they say a broad congregation!

 

For me, this was as much a challenge of say could I achieve it and making it work, than it was to say it had to work, be to scale and be correct.

 

In which case, I wish you bon chance. It is interesting to note, though, that Frank Dyer had a fully working route indicator display (but not Theatre type) on the first Borchester layout, 60 years ago now. Spectators couldn't see it but it did definitely work.

[micknich2003]

Re Frank Dyer's Borchester route indicator, attached a photo' from the December 1959 Model Railway News. I'm sure it worked and well at that, but it is obviously a little overscale.

 

[60526]

There you go, shunting into platform 3.

 

[Suzie]

This video of Liverpool Lime Street shows a theatre indicator which appears to be using a 7 x 5 display on its side to give 5 x 4 fonts

 

 

 

edit: I think that the font is actually 5 x 4 not 5 x 3 as I originally thought.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Suzie

[Richie Kynaston]

In which case, I wish you bon chance. It is interesting to note, though, that Frank Dyer had a fully working route indicator display (but not Theatre type) on the first Borchester layout, 60 years ago now. Spectators couldn't see it but it did definitely work.

 

Thanks!  The whole project may go totally pair-shaped, but you would think that if an indicator display could be made to work 60 years ago, modern day electronics should mean we can get a realistic representation of a working theatre indicator in the 21st century!  He says fingers crossed

 

 

This video of Liverpool Lime Street shows a theatre indicator which appears to be using a 7 x 5 display on its side to give 5 x 3 fonts

 

 

 

Thanks Suzie,

I must admit that is one of the better ones that I have seen and doesn't look too over scale, compared with the like of the Absolute Aspects one.  I do love the realism on the LLS layout tho, absolutely superb.

 

Richie

[micknich2003]

 At last I can now add the missing BorchesterTown photo', ex Model Railway News, December 1959.

[newbryford]

Thanks!  The whole project may go totally pair-shaped, but you would think that if an indicator display could be made to work 60 years ago, modern day electronics should mean we can get a realistic representation of a working theatre indicator in the 21st century!  He says fingers crossed

 

 

 

 

Thanks Suzie,

I must admit that is one of the better ones that I have seen and doesn't look too over scale, compared with the like of the Absolute Aspects one.  I do love the realism on the LLS layout tho, absolutely superb.

 

Richie

 

Two of the three guys behind that theatre indicator helped me with the one I pictured/built. What was learnt on the first one was employed on LLS's theatre indicators.

 

Cheers,

Mick