Booking Hall Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) As part of a project to detail the old Triang Hornby MetCam Lightweight DMU I would like to change the 'steamroller' serrated wheels for something a bit better. The units I have use the early motor bogie with the brass gear wheel on the 9/16" axle. Now I know I could buy Ultrascale drop-in replacements, but a) I understand these take a considerable time to come, and b) I'm a cheapskate who happens to have a Myford lathe! Having bought some Alan Gibson 12mm DMU wheelsets for the non-powered bogies, I've been wondering if I could use the wheels for the powered axles too, and as far as I can see there are two ways of doing this. I could turn down the ends of the Triang axles to 2mm and press on the Gibson wheels, or I could open up the plastic centre of the Gibson wheels to 9/16" and press them on to the unmodified Triang axles. I can see advantages and disadvantages in both methods. The first method would ensure (assuming I get the machining right!) a precise back to back dimension and the shoulder created on the axle would help to ensure perpendicularity of the wheel. If I was a bit out on machining the 2mm stub the step would also give a bit more surface area to use some bearing lock on. The disadvantage of this method is that if it doesn't work, or if I muck it up, then I can't refit the Triang wheels, and I only have enough axles to finish the project! The second method preserves the Triang axles, but I'm not as convinced that I will be able to drill and ream the Gibson wheel centres accurately and concentrically enough, and I think there would be less surface area for the wheel to grip on. I realise that with either method I'm going to have to re-arrange the pickup and earth return as both sides of the axles will be insulated from the rails. Has anyone done this mod before and can offer me any advice please? Edited November 6, 2022 by Booking Hall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Booking Hall said: I'm a cheapskate who happens to have a Myford lathe! Not so much of a cheapskate when it comes to your equipment though I'd turn the axles 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 58 minutes ago, RedgateModels said: Not so much of a cheapskate when it comes to your equipment though I'd turn the axles Thanks for the recommendation RedgateModels. The Myford was one of the best investments I ever made. How does anyone manage without a lathe??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2019 I have a Clarke CL250m for my sins. Would love the space and money for a Super 7 as that's what I cut my teeth on in my first job many, many years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Years ago, I was asked to do a similar conversion. I turned the Triang wheels to "Finescale" there is more than enough "Meat" on them, but first, and being made of sinitered iron they need aneailing to soften them, but first remove the plastic bushes. The "Plain" wheel can be turned without removal on the original axle, use a spare axle to turn the plastic wheel or turn a suitable mandrel. I have had a Clarke lathe for many years, a little Clumsy compared to a Super 7, but with the addition of a 4 Jaw chuck plus a full set of collets it is more than good enough for model railway work, and including making my own Gauge 1 driving wheels. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2019 8 hours ago, micknich2003 said: being made of sinitered iron they need aneailing to soften them, cherry red then allow to cool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 hours ago, RedgateModels said: cherry red then allow to cool? Yes, and once cool they turn very well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2019 I've got a Transcontinental Switcher that is used on George's layout at the Mansfield Show, it's steamroller wheels cause a short on the Peco curved point under DCC, so is confined to the inner track at the moment. another little job for the list Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 17 hours ago, micknich2003 said: The "Plain" wheel can be turned without removal on the original axle, use a spare axle to turn the plastic wheel or turn a suitable mandrel Thanks for adding to the conversation Mick. Did you make a tyre profile tool to turn them with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 No, at the time (approx forty five year ago) I finished the flange profile using needle files. I now have an RP25 profile tool. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 On 15/03/2019 at 19:15, micknich2003 said: No, at the time (approx forty five year ago) I finished the flange profile using needle files. I now have an RP25 profile tool. Thanks Mick, can those be bought, or have you had to make it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) No, at the time (approx forty five year ago) I finished the flange profile using needle files. I now have an RP25 profile tool. Edited March 16, 2019 by micknich2003 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 From what I can gather this tool only seems capable of turning to a RP25/110 profile, is this what you work to, and indeed is my assumption correct? I would like, (in the perfect world we don't live in!), a RP25/088 tool, or even better, an EM profile tool. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 18 hours ago, micknich2003 said: No, at the time (approx forty five year ago) I finished the flange profile using needle files. I now have an RP25 profile tool. A big thanks for this information Mick. Their website is an Alladdin's cave of useful stuff! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 9/16 th axles? Don't Romford make such for adding their wheels to Triang chassis blocks? Buy some of these and Romford loco wheels of the right diameter? I think I used their 1/8 th axles to turn this one into a tender drive. Taking a second look at your pictures of the wheelsets, are the Triang axles stepped down at the end to 1/8 th ? If so can most modern loco wheels with 1/8 th holes could be fitted on them? Edited March 17, 2019 by relaxinghobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, relaxinghobby said: 9/16 th axles? Don't Romford make such for adding their wheels to Triang chassis blocks? Buy some of these and Romford loco wheels of the right diameter? I think I used their 1/8 th axles to turn this one into a tender drive. I have not cross checked, but isn't the EM standard much the same as RP25? I work in EM Gauge with the tool and no bother. A friend re profiles wheels using no more than a needle file and he has no running problems. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I think 9/64th axles were once available from "Mainly Trains", and possibly still are from elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2019 Markits do the 9/16" axles in EM. Mike 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) Thanks for all the alternative suggestions. There are so many ways of achieving what I want. However, having invested in a dozen or so Gibson wheelsets I'm going to pursue this route for the time being, and feeling that it is easier to turn down the ends of the axles (which, by the way, are parallel all the way relaxinghobby) than get several wheels all to the same profile without a wheel profile tool, I tried it out on one axle. The steel is quite tough, and slightly magnetic, which was a bit of a nuisance, but I got there, and you can see the result. I'm pretty happy with this, and it didn't take long to do; but guess who forgot to put on the sideplay control washers before pressing on the wheels, AND added a drop of superglue because there was just a hint of free movement . Today I'll do a second axle and test out the motor bogie to see how it performs. Edited November 6, 2022 by Booking Hall 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 18, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) On 16/03/2019 at 20:01, micknich2003 said: No, at the time (approx forty five year ago) I finished the flange profile using needle files. I now have an RP25 profile tool. Damn you Mick, just had to buy one of those LOL Better get the compound slide refitted to the Clarke ..... Edited March 18, 2019 by RedgateModels 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Wheelsets refitted to the motor bogie. I added 0.6mm brass washers to the axles and when refitting the wheelsets, made sure that the washers were in the gear wheel slot. This limits the sideplay very effectively to a total of about 0.5mm. I found that the original pickup still worked as it nicely rubbed on the inside of the steel tyre of the new wheels. After a bit of experimentation, i resolved the issue of the earth return by soldering a couple of pieces of phosphor bronze wire to the steel oil pad retainer clips. The modified bogies ran well on my test track, but my plan was to run a two-car and a three-car DMU coupled together on the club layout at an exhibition this weekend, but on trial derailments were common. I think this is due to the fine flanges and code 100 track, together with a lack of weight in the non-powered units, which, when being propelled, liked to jump off the track with a depressing regularity. So just a two-car set ran. But I will persevere and I have a lot more work to do to add and refine the detail I want on these. Edited November 6, 2022 by Booking Hall 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 Are those gears new? they look perfect I now have my RP25 tool from Germany. Must have a play with some old wheels soon! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booking Hall Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, RedgateModels said: Are those gears new? they look perfect No, just cleaned up with an old toothbush and soapy water! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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