Early brake van drawing?

[johnarcher]

Thanks for the last two posts Albyn.

Yes I saw the coaches on the BCRly  Society website. I looked for the ex-LSW one on the Worsley website but haven't spotted it yet, I must drop him an email.

 

I saw a note a year or so ago about Adrian Swain being, sadly, in poor health, and largely retired. I assume that's still the case, unless anyone knows otherwise, or that any kits (especially this one!) have moved elsewhere?

[corneliuslundie]

The instructions I have for the D&S version of he kit are exactly the same but with the bits moved around on the page, so no help there.

In the upper photo of No 1 above it looks as though the solebar could be timber. The same photo as printed in Lucas's book is much lighter and it is clearly channel. Yet in the lower photo above it also looks like timber. To me the give-away is the crank in the V hanger. Am  I imagining things? And are the original GWR numbers of the brake vans known?

Jonathan

[Albyn]

Well looking at enlargements of the photos on my computer i think both do in fact have channel section frames, not wooden ones,

Albyn

[johnarcher]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

The instructions I have for the D&S version of he kit are exactly the same but with the bits moved around on the page, so no help there.

In the upper photo of No 1 above it looks as though the solebar could be timber. The same photo as printed in Lucas's book is much lighter and it is clearly channel. Yet in the lower photo above it also looks like timber. To me the give-away is the crank in the V hanger. Am  I imagining things? And are the original GWR numbers of the brake vans known?

Jonathan

According to the SMT article (generously attached by Becasse above) one of them was no 8806, built 1883 - so surely iron solebars.

He doesn't mention the other.

Looking at the two photos Albyn posted they both look like channel-section to me.

The wooden solebars on the one the K&ESR got look quite different.

Edited May 14, 2019 by johnarcher

[Albyn]

13 hours ago, johnarcher said:

Thanks for the last two posts Albyn.

Yes I saw the coaches on the BCRly  Society website. I looked for the ex-LSW one on the Worsley website but haven't spotted it yet, I must drop him an email.

 

I saw a note a year or so ago about Adrian Swain being, sadly, in poor health, and largely retired. I assume that's still the case, unless anyone knows otherwise, or that any kits (especially this one!) have moved elsewhere?

 

Send me an email to albynaustin@gmail.com and i can send you some better quality scans of the brake vans and other BCR wagons, coaches and locos plus sourcies of info on liveries and kits - rather off topic for this thread.  No rush as off to the Colonel Stephens AGM weekend on the PD&SWJR, the Gunnislake branch, so not back till Monday evening. 

[Gordon A]

What are "bulb angle" solebars?

 

Gordon A

[2mm Andy]

8 hours ago, Gordon A said:

What are "bulb angle" solebars?

 

Gordon A

 

Bulb angle is an old type of rolled steel section. I've scanned and attached an extract from some section tables we have in the library here at work (a bridge engineering office).

 

Andy

 

[Gordon A]

Tank you Andy.

 

Gordon A

[johnarcher]

10 hours ago, Albyn said:

 

Send me an email to albynaustin@gmail.com and i can send you some better quality scans of the brake vans and other BCR wagons, coaches and locos plus sourcies of info on liveries and kits - rather off topic for this thread.  No rush as off to the Colonel Stephens AGM weekend on the PD&SWJR, the Gunnislake branch, so not back till Monday evening. 

Thanks Albyn, I'll do that.

Have a good weekend. I lived near Gunnislake for a good many years, but for some reason I never really fancied the PD&SWJR as a prototype. Several other Stephens' lines though.

[corneliuslundie]

I mentioned a 7mm kit earlier. I have now borrowed it from the clubroom.

It is by Walsall Model Industries, ref CM36. and has a good deal of information as follows:

History

In 1882 the outside timber framed goods brake underframe construction was changed from timber to iron with the solebars “bulb” section. From 1886 – lot 355 this was replaced by 9" × 3" channel section. This kit is based on lot 355 as originally designed including some parts to portray some of the modifications occurring during the lifespans of some of the vans. All of these vans were built before 1905 when the wagon Diagram index was first prepared and Diagram numbers were not allocated. In 1909, Diagram AA16 was raised to cover the surviving timber framed goods brake vans. The Diagram lists some modifications, but these were by no means fully applied to all vans and examples are recorded with only some of the modifications as follows.

Grease axleboxes were replaced by OK oil type – change took place circa 1900 affecting most vans

Some vans received Instanter couplings – the odd one or two having screw link couplings

Some were given self-contained buffers and drawbars during the First World War

Some vans were converted to eight-shoe clasp brakes during the same period

Between 1925 and 1934 thirteen examples were transferred to the Signal & Telegraph Department as Tool Vans and subsequently renumbered

Lot 355 running numbers – 50 built 1886

3261, 4109, 8754/6/61/73/85/90/7, 8804/10/3/35/68-9/77/81, 10121/3/7-8, 12006/9/12/4-5/20/2/5/7, 17506/25/7/33/63/82, 17668, 22347-50/2-4, 22779/84, 31291-3

8813 changed to 80842 – 10130 changed to 80775 – 12015 changed to 80930 – 22353 changed to 80796

Recorded changes to various vans built under lot 355

22779 had no changes to brakes or buffers recorded – condemned Nov 1922

Vans changed to self-contained buffers but not 8 shoe brakes 8756 – condemned Feb 1929, 12027 – condemned Dec 1935, 22353 condemned Jan 1939

Vans changed to self-contained buffers & 8-shoe brakes 8790 – condemned Mar 1935, 8835 – condemned Jan 1950

I hope this is helpful - E&OE as my typing is not brilliant

Jonathan

[Albyn]

My pal Steve bell scanned this drawing of a GWR outside frame GBV for me from  'A History of GWR Goods Wagons' by Atkins, Beard, Hyde & Tourre

 

[corneliuslundie]

The only differences I can see between the drawing and the BCR photos are the positions of the centre stepboard support and he chimney. Oddly the upper step at the balcony end is not shown on the side view but is on the end view.

But I am cross with myself for not looking in Atkins et al before.

Jonathan

[mike morley]

I cannot now remember why, but a few years ago I did some research into the O/S framed Toads and realised then that there was considerable variation in the position of the chimney. 

I do, however, find myself looking doubtfully at the position of the chimney in the Atkins etc. drawing above.  If the stove it served was immediately below it (which I realise wasn't always the case) it would have been very much in the way of anyone negotiating the doorway to the balcony.  At best it would have been a nuisance, but on a cold winters night, with the stove stoked up until it was nearly glowing and demanding a wide berth, it would have been downright hazardous to any guard who needed to make a hasty exit in order to man the brake standard.