For those interested in "Modern Classic" Cars

[SWT442]

A few years ago when my 2008 MB A180 CDI was in for an MOT and A/C recharge I asked about getting the thermostat done as it never worked properly all the while I had it. Got quoted £400 parts & labour to change it. Thought the garage was taking the p!ss quoting that, so turned to the usefull resource of YouTube for an instructional video with a view to doing it myself.

 

After watching some, prompty realised why it cost that much as It's buried at the back/top of the engine block, under the EGR valve. With the pipework that needs flexing out the way to get at it and other bits that need removing, I could see myself getting irritated with it and breaking something in my ham fisted attempt. Never did get it changed, should probably get it sorted at somepoint as the temp gauge barely reads above it's start point now.

 

Mercedes evidently thought it would never fail with where they put it.

 

Andy.

[RJS1977]

On 08/12/2021 at 16:31, doilum said:

I had forgotten to add that I have ridiculously tiny hands. Back in the day a ten year old child could change the bulb on a Chevette or mk 1 Fiesta in around three minutes.

 

I remember reading somewhere that doing an engine swap on a modern bus takes several days, whereas if a Routemaster failed during the morning peak, the garage could have it back out with a new engine in it in time for the evening peak!

 

I've a vague recollection of seeing my father change a bulb in our Mk1 Fiesta (RIP). I don't think it took 3 minutes, but then he wasn't 10 years old!

[Nick C]

10 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I remember reading somewhere that doing an engine swap on a modern bus takes several days, whereas if a Routemaster failed during the morning peak, the garage could have it back out with a new engine in it in time for the evening peak!

Of course they were designed especially for the job, rather than being some off-the-peg bus that needs to cope with anything from suburban school runs to central London.

 

There's some videos around somewhere of the LT works at Aldenham, where a bus would enter the works in the morning, and emerge the same afternoon - just with a different body, chassis and engine to that which went in! All those components would be split, and would go of in different directions, taking different times to overhaul, and so coming back together in different combinations each time.

[Wacol]

I remember at a motor show in Brisbane in the early 70's there was a competition between various VW dealerships to remove the motor from a VW and fit a replacement and start it all in the best time. All specially prepared of course. My mate worked for a dealership and I think their time was about 15 minutes.

 

 

[alastairq]

I don't often contribute to this topic.

Mainly due to my lack of enthusiasm for 'modern' cars.

Bit not long back I happened to wander onto Youtube, and onto one of the Carwow videos.

This one focussed on the lack of 'cheap' cars...and why this is currently so...and why cheap car [new cars] wil be a thing of the past, in the future.

Now, I have no idea of the veracity of the carwow's 'statements' in the video [not being much interested in stuff that left their factory this century....whoever that factory belonged to?]....but the part that interested me concerned how governments [including, most prominently, the EU!!!]...are setting targets for makers to reach regarding stuff like CO2, [with fines if they fail]...but that the targets being set are in fact easier to meet [less stringent] for larger SUVs [the greatest market share]...than they are for the small cars.

Hence the forecast is, we will no longer see cheap new cars being sold [lower profit margins are another issue]...

 

DAcia Sanderos aside [and they are getting more & more costly as each year passes...the current models being considerably more expensive, even in basic form [basic form being the only form that would interest me.....I have, absolutely, no need for connectivity, or electric windows.....]

 

I fear we as a driving public will be doomed to expensive SUV models to clog up the narrow streets of our towns & cities, with, for the majority, no alternative options if earning less than a modest 20 k a year!

Bicycles?

Fine, so let the low earners use bicycles, therefore having to live within inner city or inner urban areas...and so the lack of choice goes on.

Which will get worse as governments target the green voting public by placing restrictions on cost & availability of petrol, perhaps?

 

Anyway, possibly worth a look-see?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYBR0tlPA8

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, alastairq said:

DAcia Sanderos aside [and they are getting more & more costly as each year passes...the current models being considerably more expensive, even in basic form [basic form being the only form that would interest me.....I have, absolutely, no need for connectivity, or electric windows.....]

 

What constitutes cheap came up elsewhere the other day. A 'cheap' base spec Skoda Fabia is fully five grand more than the now ten grand Sandero.

A few years ago I bought SWMBO a Hyundai i20. It was I think eight or nine grand. They're eighteen now.

 

With the price of electronic bits these days I don't think electric windows cost any less to manufacture than manual cranks. When you buy a new car you don't much care if the windows won't go down for the fifth owner...

Safety and emissions are probably the big cost sinks for new cars.

 

I've had connectivity in my last two cars. It's fairly useful but the process of getting accounts set up and apps working is a straight up horror show.

[boxbrownie]

39 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I don't often contribute to this topic.

Mainly due to my lack of enthusiasm for 'modern' cars.

Bit not long back I happened to wander onto Youtube, and onto one of the Carwow videos.

This one focussed on the lack of 'cheap' cars...and why this is currently so...and why cheap car [new cars] wil be a thing of the past, in the future.

Now, I have no idea of the veracity of the carwow's 'statements' in the video [not being much interested in stuff that left their factory this century....whoever that factory belonged to?]....but the part that interested me concerned how governments [including, most prominently, the EU!!!]...are setting targets for makers to reach regarding stuff like CO2, [with fines if they fail]...but that the targets being set are in fact easier to meet [less stringent] for larger SUVs [the greatest market share]...than they are for the small cars.

Hence the forecast is, we will no longer see cheap new cars being sold [lower profit margins are another issue]...

 

DAcia Sanderos aside [and they are getting more & more costly as each year passes...the current models being considerably more expensive, even in basic form [basic form being the only form that would interest me.....I have, absolutely, no need for connectivity, or electric windows.....]

 

I fear we as a driving public will be doomed to expensive SUV models to clog up the narrow streets of our towns & cities, with, for the majority, no alternative options if earning less than a modest 20 k a year!

Bicycles?

Fine, so let the low earners use bicycles, therefore having to live within inner city or inner urban areas...and so the lack of choice goes on.

Which will get worse as governments target the green voting public by placing restrictions on cost & availability of petrol, perhaps?

 

Anyway, possibly worth a look-see?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYBR0tlPA8

That’s not quite true, the EU directive regarding maximum fleet wide Co2 is presently 95 grams/km, take note it’s says “fleet wide”…..it is for the manufacturers to “average” this out on the total retail sales in any year, they can choose to have very economical small vehicles as the majority and a proportion can be more polluting heavier cars, or any balance.

 

No Government has given manufacturers less stringent targets for larger/heavier vehicles.

Edited December 10, 2021 by boxbrownie

[alastairq]

Wots an app?

[alastairq]

3 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

the EU directive regarding maximum fleet wide Co2 is presently 95 grams/km,

 The key word there is ''presently'....

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, alastairq said:

Wots an app?

Slightly more than half an apple…….

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, alastairq said:

 The key word there is ''presently'....

It’s still going to be fleet wide….it’s just aiming to go down all the time….which is good.

[boxbrownie]

This is up to 2030……

 

“Targets (2025-2030)

Starting in the years 2025 and 2030, Regulation (EU) 2019/631 sets stricter EU fleet-wide CO2emission targets, which are defined as a percentage reduction from the 2021 starting points.

Cars: 15% reduction from 2025 on and 37.5% reduction from 2030 on

Vans: 15% reduction from 2025 on and 31% reduction from 2030 on

The annual specific emission targets of each manufacturer will be based on these EU fleet-wide targets, taking into account the average test mass of its newly registered vehicles.”

 

[boxbrownie]

Basically never trust a car salesman….like Carwow 

[spamcan61]

Not sure about "classic" but today's rare spot was a 57 plate Cadillac CTS on the way home down the M3. Probably about the third I've seen in recorded history. Why on earth did they try and sell that thing here.

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not sure about "classic" but today's rare spot was a 57 plate Cadillac CTS on the way home down the M3. Probably about the third I've seen in recorded history. Why on earth did they try and sell that thing here.

In the States you could buy Bentley badges and grills that were made to fit……

 

Well they do love a look e like, just look at the Chrysler 300 series 

Edited December 10, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

In the States you could buy Bentley badges and grills that were made to fit……

Thought that was the Chrysler 300?

 

The hole in the front of the Cadillac has more of a Mercedes look to the outline.....

 

John

Edited December 10, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Thought that was the Chrysler 300?

 

The hole in the front of the Cadillac has more of a Mercedes look to the outline.....

 

John

It was for both, but I think the Caddy badges got stomped on harder (by IP lawyers) being more recent.

 

My DiL was fighting the case, she has now moved on to fighting the Chinese replicating JLR products…..which she won as well.

Edited December 10, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

That’s not quite true, the EU directive regarding maximum fleet wide Co2 is presently 95 grams/km, take note it’s says “fleet wide”…..it is for the manufacturers to “average” this out on the total retail sales in any year, they can choose to have very economical small vehicles as the majority and a proportion can be more polluting heavier cars, or any balance.

 

The popular but thirsty little Suzuki Jimny comes to mind.

They had to stop selling it in Europe because of this until they removed the (useless anyway) rear seats and called it a van. And just like that it dodges the fleet wide emissions limit.

[boxbrownie]

19 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

The popular but thirsty little Suzuki Jimny comes to mind.

They had to stop selling it in Europe because of this until they removed the (useless anyway) rear seats and called it a van. And just like that it dodges the fleet wide emissions limit.

Indeed, vans get quite a lot higher allowance….I think it’s 149 rather than 95…..that’s a big difference for two rear seats 

 

The Jimney had other issues as well, mainly with safety systems and crash.

[Nick C]

20 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

The popular but thirsty little Suzuki Jimny comes to mind.

They had to stop selling it in Europe because of this until they removed the (useless anyway) rear seats and called it a van. And just like that it dodges the fleet wide emissions limit.

Nothing new there, there have been cars disguised as vans, and vice versa, for decades to get around various rules and taxes...

[Kickstart]

On 10/12/2021 at 16:45, 30801 said:

 

With the price of electronic bits these days I don't think electric windows cost any less to manufacture than manual cranks. When you buy a new car you don't much care if the windows won't go down for the fifth owner...

The first buyer might not care about the 5th buyer, but whether owner in 5 years time wants to put up with a higher chance of such a failure will impact the resale value. Given the number of lease / pcp deals on new cars then possibly a significant difference to the costs to the first owner.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kickstart said:

The first buyer might not care about the 5th buyer, but whether owner in 5 years time wants to put up with a higher chance of such a failure will impact the resale value. 

 

Nah. The reality is if you try to sell a car with wind up windows people will just laugh at you. Likewise power steering and aircon used to be fancy things but are now as essential as wheels. 

[Dunsignalling]

Does anything not have electric windows these days? It's probably cheaper to fit the same bits to all trim levels and not bother making the wind-up mechanisms at all.

 

Weirdest thing I've seen is my mate's six-year-old Fiesta, with electric windows in the front, but wind-up ones in the back, which might be fun if he had kids.

 

The size of tyres now being fitted to even small cars (and the demographic of much of that market segment) must make power steering pretty much universal, too.  

 

I've had aircon on all three of the cars I've had since 2004 and wouldn't be without it. Biggest bill it's ever incurred was £70 for a new heat exchanger (at 11years/90,000m) on my Pug 206. The only other expense was a recharge on my (now) eight-year-old Yeti a few months back. On my 207, it was never touched in the four years I had it. I leave it on all the time, which I am told is a good policy. Handbooks generally say it must be run for at least 10 minutes once a week, and my garage reckons it's a matter of use it or lose it....

 

John 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[alastairq]

10 hours ago, 30801 said:

Nah. The reality is if you try to sell a car with wind up windows people will just laugh at you.

 Like I secretly laugh when people tell me they can 'drive? 

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, Kickstart said:

The first buyer might not care about the 5th buyer, but whether owner in 5 years time wants to put up with a higher chance of such a failure will impact the resale value. Given the number of lease / pcp deals on new cars then possibly a significant difference to the costs to the first owner.

 

All the best

 

Katy

Price differentials do narrow significantly cars get older but when buying older cars, but many people are more interested in condition/service history than even what badge is on the front.

 

I suspect that, several owners down the line, and so long as all the "toys" still work, their presence may well secure a sale over a comparable but more basic vehicle.  

 

My long term purchasing has been 3-5 years old, under 10k pa, one owner and a good service history, plus  high enough up the range to have the nice stuff  (aircon, leather, decent stereo) without the potentially troublesome/expensive things like a built-in satnav. I've even been known to pay a little over book if I think a car is worth it.  I keep cars a long time and three or four hundred quid spread over ten years is irrelevant.

 

Since I started following those principles, none of my cars have ever (touch wood) cost me much after the initial purchase, apart from normal service items.  Lucky, or just a canny buyer? 

 

John

Edited December 12, 2021 by Dunsignalling