Speech End

[ParkeNd]

Dropper spaghetti wired to DCC bus in square 2 of 3. This is not in my comfort zone. 

[Regularity]

It might not be in your comfort zone, but - maybe for precisely that reason - that is wiring and labelling of the very highest order.

[ParkeNd]

I've now wired the 3rd square of 3 as far as connecting droppers to the DCC bus is concerned. I'm new to using a multimeter and was initially delighted that on the Continuity setting I got a beep every time by placing the probes on the "power in" terminal of the choc block and the corresponding rail at the point the dropper is soldered - for black and then red cables. However, I get the same beep if I place the probes across both the red and black terminals anywhere, and between rails on any price of track. On the ohms setting I get 0.3 ohms across rails or red and black leads anywhere on the layout. I fear short circuits if I was to connect power. There are no track pins lodged across rails and red and black leads are uniformly soldered to rails on the same side of the track. Every pair of opposing points is joined with pairs of IRJs. I haven't fitted a single IRJ to both point rails on every point though and I'm just about to fit 13 of these. But I think this just guards against wheels sitting across switch rail and the stock rail when passing over the frog. Feeling lost and short of experience here - is my multimeter telling me I have short circuits, or are these avoided when I  install the Cobalt SS Controllers and point motors and connect the Prodigy Advance 2?  Confused.

Edited December 9, 2020 by ParkeNd
missed word. bus

[corneliuslundie]

It doers sound like a short circuit if there is nothing connecting the leads at the "supply" end. Not sure what the suggest except isolating bits and testing each bit separately. 

From experience I would expect the problem to be at a crossing (frog) as that is where lengths of rail with opposite polarities meet. Is a switch rail touching a crossing rail?

Jonathan

[ParkeNd]

Thanks for your comments. I’ve installed 5 of the single IRJ’s on the switch rails of the frogs with 8 more still to do in situ. 4 of the will be tough and might need a Dremel cut and epoxy filler. I’ll then do as you suggest and check by isolating sections which I figure (with no electrical knowledge) I can do by disconnecting one dropper at a time. 

[ParkeNd]

All 13 of the switch rail frogs not already fitted with IRJs because they were on opposing points have been fitted with an IRJ. Not easy but I became more confident of finding a way to do it on track already laid and wired as I went on which avoided me having to hold my breath and hang my tongue out of the side of my mouth. Didn't need to buy and use a Dremel. Now I can see I need 5 more power droppers for certain, and 1 more maybe. Knowing where it's safe to drill through the layout board will need a lot of "tilt, peak, and measure".

Edited December 13, 2020 by ParkeNd
missing word "having"

[ParkeNd]

It could have been a frustrating day today if I had let it. The problem is the short circuit(s) across left and right rails. The extra IRJs at the frogs solved some of it and systematically I checked continuity of the whole layout. I found one point at the station mouth with a short so removed it, discovered the tiny wire under it that needed cutting had folded back down under the point and completed the circuit again. However, placing the probes at either end of the gap where the point had been, with nothing but air and cork between the probes, generated a beep - continuity in the wiring under the board somehow. So I’ve had to admit that there are too many points in proximity and that I don’t have the skills to solve the conundrum. My solution has been to simplify the things by removing four of the points in the middle of the layout - it makes virtually no difference to the operating potential. This will enable me to have two separate zones with no physical connection between them, no crossovers, and only 2 points in one zone, 4 in the other. I shall wire each zone completely separately. Because I enjoy the construction of buildings and scenery most I don’t want to get beaten by over complicated electrics and not finish the layout. DCC is not simple. 

[ParkeNd]

Following on from the above, this is the relaid change to the layout on the main board - L shape to come later when trains will run on what is done already. This leaves me two zones with no physical link between the two - no rails that is. A single track into 3 platforms for passenger traffic - and a single track into a goods set-up that looks like it’s being fed from the same place as the passengers come from. It’s a country terminus remember. I’ve rewired the entire underside for power and droppers keeping the two zones on different choc blocks for simplicity and clarity for my non-electrical mind. So 4 points removed and no crossovers. Cobalt SS controllers and point motors next. Top pic is before - Bottom pic is after. Will photograph wiring tomorrow- it’s dark now.  See also DCC Programming Track on right hand side. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ParkeNd
Mention of Programming Track

[ParkeNd]

This is the simplified power wiring on the underside of the board. The coiled wires are the three leads for each point for the Cobalt SS Points Controllers to change the frog polarity automatically. The labels (right way up when board flipped) are for the dropper connection points and numbered points matching a marked up photo of the tracks. DCC Concepts instruction booklet leads users in the direction of having the controllers on the top of the board so that point throw and direction can be changed (the tiny points motors are surface mounted) without crawling under the layout - that appeals to this 73 year old so I’m going to do it. The landscape is going to be undulating so they are easily hidden. 

[ParkeNd]

I’m getting within a few days of having to find out if a loco will run on this. Scary if I’m honest. The dropper feeds from the DCC bus are all in place and labelled, and I’ve almost finished routing the point polarity “left, common, right” wires from the frogs to where the Cobalt SS Controllers will sit, along with power feeds to them. That leaves somewhere to put the Prodigy Advance 2 boxes - so I’ve made and fitted a shelf high up on the support legs - this looks simple but it was deceptively labour intensive and tortuous to get into position to fix and have enough room to use my hands and arms. By Christmas Day (on my own) I will start installing the point motors and controllers. Power up before New Years Day?

[ParkeNd]

DCC - simply connect 2 wires to the rails and GO. 

[DCB]

That's beautiful workmanship.     I have only just stumbled across this post and you have done exactly the opposite of my modus operandi which is to lay track, test it  with a test loco using a temporary power supply, with crocodile clips if necessary,  My usual test loco has pickups on only one axle.  There doesn't seem to be much operating potential left with such a short goods headshunt and no run round.  Maybe you should consider reinstating the crossovers?   Have Fun   Merry Christmas

[ParkeNd]

I've installed the Gaugemaster DCC Prodigy Advance 2 and it's displaying oVLd with nothing on the tracks. Oh bother.

[ParkeNd]

Reply to DavidCBroad. Thanks for your comments. The layout size is inhibited by space available - I used to have an N Gauge layout in the same space. Sequence of construction was affected by Advance Prodigy 2 which was nil stock for over 6 months, then Cobalt SS points nil stock for a total of 9 months. So I either had to abort or mark time - my favourite activity is scratch building so I got on with the platforms and buildings whilst I waited.

[ParkeNd]

Working through the short circuit problem on one of the other Forum Boards with help. It isn’t the Prodigy, it isn’t a wiring error, and it isn’t an IRJ omission. Seems likely to be Point No 3 just before the straight track leading into the Good Shed. It is the only one with no continuity between L&R rails approaching the frog. Will remove tomorrow and check status of cutting link underneath. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by ParkeNd
Removed unnecessary (

[ParkeNd]

Problem is solved with the help of the DCC Questions and Help Board on this forum. It wasn't the point above, it was one next to it, and I hadn't cut the two links when modifying the point. So hard to find the source of the problem. I have replaced that point with a brand new one along with the two pieces of track leading off it. Tomorrow I have to connect the leads - one at a time with multimeter checks at every step. Then I can go back to what I was doing - installing the points motors. Out of interest with Peco Code 75 track on 1/16" cork the Cobalt SS motors need to mount on a Daler Board mat and use the little wire links in the packet with the green spot. The links have to be level and horizontal and it take a while to work out if you need anything under the point motor, and which of 4 configurations of tiny links you need. Thankfully I have some surgical precision tweezers - they are not manageable by hand when trying to fit them in two holes - one on the point motor and one on the point actuator with the tip cut off.

[ParkeNd]

With the short circuit eliminated (with help) today was the day to return to fitting points motors and their controllers. Each controller will manage numerous points but nominally two - one each side of the circuit board. I’m going to use 5 of my 8 controllers for 6 points so I can stick with mostly the 150mm harness length of each points motor. I have installed and got 2 working today. The DCC Concepts Cobalt SS points system is pretty incredible - they move the blades slowly (with snap springs remove), you can adjust the travel on the controller to neatly nestle the blades against the stock rail on either side, change the direction of motion to suit preference, they change frog polarity, and can be operated by a passing contact switch although I’m using the Prodigy handset, will illuminate LEDs on a route panel, and routes can be set up. The only problem I had was the first one installed stopped moving the point blade after the second one was working. I feared I had programmed some sort of conflict of location names, but it turned out to be the little springy connector between motor and the point lever digging into the cork underlay after a few actions - easily fixed by cutting a 2mm channel in the cork. 3 of the controllers are going under elevated ground contours, and 2 are going under buildings. 

[ParkeNd]

I now have 4 of the 6 points motors installed and operating - 2 to go. The hardest part is lining up the motor and its tiny wire connector with the point itself, but I have managed it so far. The last 2 are going to be controlled by two sides of one Cobalt Controller and both will need the supplied extension leads and to go down under the board and come up the other side of the tracks. One will be easy. The other needs to sit where the ramp of Platform 2 will sit - see about 3 ins in front of the handset in the above picture - options are to shorten the platform and have a truncated flat end, or to modify the platform so that the point motor sits mostly under it. I can do either but the jury is out on which.

Edited January 1, 2021 by ParkeNd
added reference to handset

[ParkeNd]

All 6 points motors are now installed and working. I love the way the points blades just slowly move between stock rails rather than the loud instant smack my old Peco points motors made. I’m now in more comfortable territory starting the scenics - again. Platform 2 is being shortened by about 1.5 “ of ramp because I don’t want to put it under the platform for fear of catching the little link - they can ping into oblivion if mishandled. 

[ParkeNd]

Took a brave step this morning - remember DCC is all new to me - and put the Dapol GWR Railcar on the programming track and gave it an address but took the defaults for all other variables. It ran first time and then stopped at the first point and the oVLd message came up and lights blinked everywhere. Luckily I had read on The Forum that reversing the +ve and -ve wires on the points controller output would fix it - it di to my relief. Had to change this on 4 of the 6 controllers and now the loco runs everywhere on the tracks in both directions. Travel across the points is incredibly smooth compared with my last layout. Very pleased. Now I need to get on with the scenics whilst fitting decoders on 15 of my 20 locos progressively - all bought used "as new" in the summer when nobody wanted them. Most have DCC connectors.

[ParkeNd]

I’m waiting for some Peco cable clips to tidy up the wires on top of the board so I’ve marked out the flow of the rails in the L section and installed the cork underlay. I might as well finish the last bits of track - 2 points and 4 lengths of flexi - this will be the fiddle yard effectively but will be “scenic’d”. The area will need two more pairs of droppers, choc blocks, and two point motors operated through one Cobalt controller. Out of this little list I have one shortage - one red 3M scotchlok. Buying through Amazon or hardware suppliers minimum qty is 50 and in some cases 100. Amazon wanted £13.50 for 50 plus £12.50 postage!!   So I’m buying 20 from Railway Scenics for £4.99 delivered - where the DCC bus kit came from. 

[ParkeNd]

Cable clips and scotchloks arrived swiftly so wires on top of layout, already zip tied, have been neatly tidied.  Where I used 2 of the 5 longer extension leads for the point motors I was delighted to find that the hole in the centre of the postage stamp sized "circuit board" type joiner is designed for a control board screw to hold it down on the board. This morning I modified the two points for the L shape at the end of the board - including removing the links underneath!!  Each point has 5 leads soldered to it - 2 power feeds and 3 leads for frog polarity change. Although I have to solder power leads to each of the pieces of Flexi that exit the points, I will be a very happy man if I never have to solder again despite being more competent than when I started. This is a case of when I've finished I have become roughly half good enough to start the task. There is not enough 18/0.1mm red and black wire in my stock to do more work to install the last pieces of track until some I have ordered arrives, so I am marking time  designing a building for the yard to cover the Cobalt SS Controller in the centre of the board - it's not really a design as such rather more of an adaption of one I have seen in pictures of Monmouth Troy goods yard which is in an identical sort of position.

[corneliuslundie]

I am in awe of your tidy wiring. I do try to use colour coding and choc blocks but I never get it looking anything like yours. And you have not tempted me to try DCC, though I have enjoyed using it at the American Modular Meets at Armitage. I am very looking forward to seeing your buildings, as those on your previous layout were great and the goods shed is a very, very good start.

Jonathan

[ParkeNd]

Thanks for your encouraging comments Jonathan. I wanted to use DCC because I knew nothing about it and thus it would be a challenge. The short circuit was more than a challenge but once found and fixed I am relieved that DCC does what it says on the tin. The wiring has been helped by turning the main board upside down and latterly vertical as per a Brian Lambert photo. I have never understood electricity and survive by looking on the wiring as a mechanical structure. I’m also glad I’ve moved on to OO from N Gauge - I’m 73 now and appreciating critics of N who said they couldn’t see it. Your EM is probably the perfect scale having seen it at exhibitions and I admire the ability of EM practitioners to make the locos and rolling stock - now that is beyond me. 

[corneliuslundie]

I can lay track and build wagons and buildings, but locos are another matter. I have a kit for ex Cambrian 1196 in hand, but it is a very slow job and I am not sure how well it will run. I also have some carriage kits which I am finding "challenging".

I suggest that if you want to try building rolling stock you start with PO wagon kits, as there are quite a few for the Forest area, and then try scratch building a simple open wagon. You will be surprised how easy it is. And no very specialist tools needed. The only current bugbear is the diminishing number of suppliers of components such as axleboxes, brakegear  and buffers. And of course wagons are no more difficult in EM than in OO. Just different wheels and a slight repositioning of the brakes.

But I am hardly one to preach having only ever really completed one minute layout in my 73 years.

I shall continue to follow your progress with interest.

Jonathan