English Electric Type 3 (Class 37) East Midlands

[Blobrick]

Can anyone confirm if Eastern region class 37s worked to Toton Yard in 1966 - 67?  I know they were working this route by the early 1970s, but by then were in Blue. I ve been trying to fine photos of the later series machines built at the Vulcan works, which were transferred off the Western region around this time, but were still in Green.

I ve been trawling through the pages of Dave F s photos, and have found so many great photos from this period, (Thank you Dave!)  but as l ve only gotten to page 200, l ve got a fair few more to go!

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

Bob C

[Fat Controller]

I would be very surprised if they didn't, given they were based at Tinsley, but photographic evidence seems to be in short supply. I did have a look at a site dedicated to the Erewash Valley line, but coulnd't find anything. ( https://www.flickr.com/groups/erewashvalleyline/ )

[Blobrick]

Thanks for that FC, that's the feeling l ve been left with, as l ve not found, as yet any photos either.

 

All I ve found is a few of Brush type 2s  at Stanton Gate and Shipley working in from Tinsley I believe, but strangely, the type 3s are conspicuous by their absence !

 

Thanks for the link too! 

[18B]

20 hours ago, Blobrick said:

Thanks for that FC, that's the feeling l ve been left with, as l ve not found, as yet any photos either.

 

All I ve found is a few of Brush type 2s  at Stanton Gate and Shipley working in from Tinsley I believe, but strangely, the type 3s are conspicuous by their absence !

 

Thanks for the link too! 

 

While Tinsley did indeed have an allocation of the type, that's not at all to say that they "must have" worked services to Toton. yes there were many booked trains between Toton and Tinsley, but if they weren't booked for Class 37 haulage then perhaps only the odd rare occurrence may have happened.  At that  in 1966 - 67 time Tinsley's Class 31s were working from Wath to Toton, but may well have turned up a Class 37 or two. Pics are the only way to confirm one way or the other, but as mentioned given they seem hard to find, chances are it was only on rare occasions (And remember people tended to photograph the rare rather than the ordinary back then - so their instance must have been exceptionally rare....???.)

[Blobrick]

Hi 18B

 

Thanks for this input, l think your assumption is most probably correct. I am currently on page 317 of Dave Fs photo pages, and have only found one type 3 working in from the Eastern Region, in this case  via Bottesford 1968. The supporting notes contain reference to this working possibly being a Saturday only Doncaster to Toton working, if  that's the case, that good enough for me, l have my type 3 at Toton!!

I hope Dave does not mind me copying his photo to uas as example.

 

once again thanks for replying

Bob C

Edited June 16, 2019 by Blobrick
Add photo

[Covkid]

5 minutes ago, 18B said:

 

While Tinsley did indeed have an allocation of the type, that's not at all to say that they "must have" worked services to Toton. yes there were many booked trains between Toton and Tinsley, but if they weren't booked for Class 37 haulage then perhaps only the odd rare occurrence may have happened.  At that  in 1966 - 67 time Tinsley's Class 31s were working from Wath to Toton, but may well have turned up a Class 37 or two. Pics are the only way to confirm one way or the other, but as mentioned given they seem hard to find, chances are it was only on rare occasions (And remember people tended to photograph the rare rather than the ordinary back then - so their instance must have been exceptionally rare....???.)

 

 

i have mentioned this before that photographs are not always the absolute proof that people desire. This is simply because the railway was a 24 hour a day operation and photographers (unfortunately) were rarely around to record images after dark. There are several holy grails I would love to see photos of but running during the dark means they mostly went unrecorded. One was the "double train" formed of a pair of Hymeks and 40 Regent tanks from Cardiff to Bescot where they split into 2 x 20 to go in to Soho.

 

A much rarer but higher profile photograph would have been a pair of BRCWs (class 27s) working the Royal Train up the Midland Mainline and on to a location near Leeds. I believe that D5380 and D5382 were in Derby works just prior, so were fitted with the Royal Train connector in the gangway doors and were outshopped in two tone green especially for the job. Can't prove it because the train ran at night, and the weather was so filthy the following day that the Royal party has to return by train rather than fly. But why else would this pair of locos have received non standard livery and Royal Train conversion, particularly as a special notice records the train back in 1965 or 1966.

 

Yes photos are a "nice to have" but cannot be used as a guarantee of an event.   

 

 

b RDSIFF TO bWESCOR

 

weember  

[18B]

21 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

Hi 18B

 

Thanks for this input, l think your assumption is most probably correct. I am currently on page 317 of Dave Fs photo pages, and have only found one type 3 working in from the Eastern Region, in this case  via Bottesford 1968. The supporting notes contain reference to this working possibly being a Saturday only Doncaster to Toton working, if  that's the case, that good enough for me, l have my type 3 at Toton!!

I hope Dave does not mind me copying his photo to uas as example.

 

once again thanks for replying

Bob C

 

is his def to Toton though? for coming from Doncaster and heading that way at time I'd profer it was more likely for Colwick Yard? with coal either for Stanton Gate or Staythorpe Power station?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Bearing in mind Tinsley didn't open until 1965, so the transfer across of EE type 3's may not have been instant from Darnall, and in the early days they were used on cyclical diagrams which took them all over the place for days at a time, (one having a Cleethorpes - Kings Cross in it's working), and bearing in mind it would take a while to sort out the routes for traffic from/to Tinsley, (as it replaced dozens of small yards in the Sheffield district), so maybe at the beginning the Tinsley - Toton workings may not have been regularised.

By my spotting days at Chesterfield in the late 60's/early 70's EE type 3's were not too common, not rare by any means, but primarily heading to South Wales on steel trains. and the Tinsley - Toton and returns were generally in the hands of type 4's, the first ten peaks being regular performers.

I have seen them at Toton, but not many and regrettably outwith your period.

 

Mike.

 

 

[jonny777]

deleted - duplicate 

Edited June 16, 2019 by jonny777

[jonny777]

3 hours ago, Blobrick said:

Hi 18B

 

Thanks for this input, l think your assumption is most probably correct. I am currently on page 317 of Dave Fs photo pages, and have only found one type 3 working in from the Eastern Region, in this case  via Bottesford 1968. The supporting notes contain reference to this working possibly being a Saturday only Doncaster to Toton working, if  that's the case, that good enough for me, l have my type 3 at Toton!!

I hope Dave does not mind me copying his photo to uas as example.

 

once again thanks for replying

Bob C

 

 

 

 

8M74 was the 0815 from Hull to Colwick in 1968.  It was a weekday working, and the SO version had been suspended for the duration of the timetable. 

 

There were no workings to Toton over that route in 1968, and the Toton to Whitemoor services, (previously with 44s in charge) had been drastically cut back to a couple which ran overnight. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by jonny777

[Blobrick]

48 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Bearing in mind Tinsley didn't open until 1965, so the transfer across of EE type 3's may not have been instant from Darnall, and in the early days they were used on cyclical diagrams which took them all over the place for days at a time, (one having a Cleethorpes - Kings Cross in it's working), and bearing in mind it would take a while to sort out the routes for traffic from/to Tinsley, (as it replaced dozens of small yards in the Sheffield district), so maybe at the beginning the Tinsley - Toton workings may not have been regularised.

By my spotting days at Chesterfield in the late 60's/early 70's EE type 3's were not too common, not rare by any means, but primarily heading to South Wales on steel trains. and the Tinsley - Toton and returns were generally in the hands of type 4's, the first ten peaks being regular performers.

I have seen them at Toton, but not many and regrettably outwith your period.

 

Mike.

 

 

Thanks for this info Mike, it all helps build a clearer picture. For me the good thing is that they were about around my chosen time.

 

bob C

[Blobrick]

13 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

8M74 was the 0815 from Hull to Colwick in 1968.  It was a weekday working, and the SO version had been suspended for the duration of the timetable. 

 

There were no workings to Toton over that route in 1968, and the Toton to Whitemoor services, (previously with 44s in charge) had been drastically cut back to a couple which ran overnight. 

 

Oh dear, so its not as clear cut as l had hoped. I wonder what happened to the loco once it had reached Colwick, did to work the same rake back or move on to another duty?

Edited June 16, 2019 by Blobrick
Update

[jonny777]

The return working was 7N05 which left Colwick for Hull an hour after M74 arrived, but I don't know if it was worked by the same locomotive. 

[Blobrick]

Thanks for the Info Jonny, looks like l m back to my search again than!!

Edited June 16, 2019 by Blobrick

[45125]

On 16/06/2019 at 17:16, jonny777 said:

The return working was 7N05 which left Colwick for Hull an hour after M74 arrived, but I don't know if it was worked by the same locomotive. 

Usually was the same loco back That loco in the photo would either 6835 or 6836.

 

[Phil Bullock]

On 16/06/2019 at 14:06, Covkid said:

 

 

i have mentioned this before that photographs are not always the absolute proof that people desire. This is simply because the railway was a 24 hour a day operation and photographers (unfortunately) were rarely around to record images after dark. There are several holy grails I would love to see photos of but running during the dark means they mostly went unrecorded. One was the "double train" formed of a pair of Hymeks and 40 Regent tanks from Cardiff to Bescot where they split into 2 x 20 to go in to Soho.

 

A much rarer but higher profile photograph would have been a pair of BRCWs (class 27s) working the Royal Train up the Midland Mainline and on to a location near Leeds. I believe that D5380 and D5382 were in Derby works just prior, so were fitted with the Royal Train connector in the gangway doors and were outshopped in two tone green especially for the job. Can't prove it because the train ran at night, and the weather was so filthy the following day that the Royal party has to return by train rather than fly. But why else would this pair of locos have received non standard livery and Royal Train conversion, particularly as a special notice records the train back in 1965 or 1966.

 

Yes photos are a "nice to have" but cannot be used as a guarantee of an event.   

 

 

b RDSIFF TO bWESCOR

 

weember  

 

Theres a picture of the Soho Pools tanks on line somewhere with a pair of Hymeks up front at Norton Junction - will look it out for you

 

The point is that no photo doesnt mean it didnt happen - especially mid 60s, everyone was chasing steam and a lot of cameras were put away when that finished....

 

Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

The point is that no photo doesnt mean it didnt happen - especially mid 60s, everyone was chasing steam and a lot of cameras were put away when that finished....

 

Yes, it was very lonely spotting in the late 60's/early70's.

 

Mike.

[Phil Bullock]

We had a good gang of youfs Mike....

 

Worcester Shrub Hill, Abbotswood, Birmingham New Street, Bristol TM, Cardiff - and once we had a car (an Austin Westminster) the railway was our oyster. A Midland Runabout for a week every summer and shed bashing trips with Worcester Locomotive Society all added to the fun....but Brian Thomas was the only one taking photos, too expensive for the rest of us

 

And Tinsley 37s were predictable at Derby on coal trains - usually the D6800 - D6813 batch IIRC - so if at Derby why not Toton?

 

Phil

Edited June 19, 2019 by Phil Bullock

[jonny777]

If you look on the Class 37 website, they have a sighting of 37101 passing Derby light engine, en route to Toton - allegedly. 

 

This was on August 26th 1967.

 

https://www.class37.co.uk/fleet.aspx?strnumber=37345

 

I haven't looked through all the Tinsley allocation, because it is rather a laborious process. 

 

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

And Tinsley 37s were predictable at Derby on coal trains - usually the D6800 - D6813 batch IIRC - so if at Derby why not Toton?

 

I would hazard a guess at the fact that Derby is on the NE - SW route, whereas Toton is on the Midland main line, fuelling and basic maintenance could be done at Derby/Etches Park, so there wouldn't necessarily be the need to visit Toton.

 

Re thinking the original question, occasionally iron ore trains had EE type 3 power through Chesterfield, so what might have been the route from the quarries east of Melton Mowbray?

 

MIke.