SR Milk Tanks Horam to Mottingham

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

No wonder this flow deserted rail fairly early, because it must have cost a fortune to operate.

 

At around 50 miles by road, it would have been an easy candidate for lorry haulage. Much faster than the circuitous route taken by the rail tankers.

[Nearholmer]

A small update to keep information all in one place:

 

Im beginning to form a fuzzy picture of the loading facility at Horam:

 

- the long siding to it terminated in a small building adjacent to the road (6” map evidence);

 

- across the road was a dairy/creamery which received deliveries by churn, and  from that dairy was a pipe gantry with catwalk, crossing the road (photographic evidence);

 

- the pipe gantry led to the rail loading point (my surmise), and it probably carried a milk pipe, plus a steam line to supply steam for cleaning tank wagons out (surmise again);

 

- if I was to make a guess at what the rail tank building looked like for model-making purposes, I would guess based on other places and typical 1930s dairy buildings: brick or block walls, a corrugated asbestos peaked roof, no doors on the ends, a working platform on one side, plus high level pipe work and maybe a fixed catwalk to access the tops of the wagons. Looking at the map, and with a view to the traffic discussed back up-thread, I think it was only maybe two or three wagon-lengths long, so roughly the size of a small loco shed.

[C126]

Any pics of Horam station environs around this time?  Anything in the Middleton Press series?  Just wondering if anyone has checked these.

 

Just checked the Middleton Press web-site, which identifies "Horam" as being in:

 

'Branch Lines to Tunbridge Wells from Oxted, Lewes and Polegate', and

'Steaming through East Sussex'.

Edited July 24, 2023 by C126
Added web-site results.

[Nearholmer]

I’ve been through every source I can find, including those, disused stations, and the big Cuckoo Line history (Wild Swan?), Britain from above, and relevant Facebook groups  (where I bumped into another chap on the same quest), and no photo of the siding or the loading building so far. The siding isn’t even mentioned in the Sectional Appendix for 1934, so I’m guessing it didn’t come into use until after that.

 

I think that the problem is that this facility arrived (1930s) and went out of use (early 1950s?) at a time when barely anyone was pointing cameras at obscure bits of branch line infrastructure. 
 

Maybe a scout through Express Dairies’ archives might nail it, but personally I’m not up for that.

[C126]

Do not forget the oblique shots at the National Monuments Archive of aerial photos at Swindon.  But again, this takes time and cash.

[Nearholmer]

Blow me! 
 

I went back over the Facebook threads, and someone has posted an aerial of the village, I don’t think from Britain from Above which doesn’t seem to have any.

 

Here is a zoom-in, which I’ve labelled. Seems to confirm at least some of my guesses, even if much remains fuzzy!

 

 

 

From a modeller’s perspective, it’s a very useful inspiration for a freelanced version, because the dairy could so easily be low relief, painted backdrop, or “off-scene front”, with just the loading building and a pipe run to take up precious space on the layout.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Nearholmer

[C126]

Forgive me if others realise this already, but it appears the siding goes inside the shed, allowing loading 'out of the weather'.  No loading-dock adjacent, or one would see it in the shadow of the roof-line.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, that’s very clear from the map. Did I accidentally imply otherwise? When I said “working platform to one side”, I meant under cover.

 

to me, it’s a baby version of what was at South Morden and, thinking further, I wonder whether it was re-purposed to deal with road tankers after rail traffic ceased.

 

Here’s South Morden, of which there are many photos on-line. https://expressdairytales.uk/ed-morden-processing

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Nearholmer

[C126]

No fault in your writings; I made the mistake of assuming the loading dock would be exposed to the outside on an external siding.  Sorry.  Thanks for the link.

[MossdaleNGauge]

I have a book about Eltham, I used to live there, but there is no mention of anything milk related except for one photo.

Edited July 24, 2023 by MossdaleNGauge

[Tom Burnham]

Trying to remember the Express Dairy arrangements in Eltham without success. In Sidcup our milk was delivered by Express Dairy electric milk floats, presumably from Eltham (3 miles). United Dairies (orange milk floats) had a depot on the A20 Eltham bypass. I have a vague recollection of the Express siding at Mottingham - the set of 6 sidings on the down side, London end were more apparent.

[MossdaleNGauge]

Express Dairy had a depot in Mottingham Road which still exists as a motorbike shop.

https://expressdairytales.uk/ed-depots-e-m

 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, the consensus from previous discussions seems to be that the Mottingham place was not a bottling plant though, merely a distribution depot, and that the bottling took place at the Eltham depot, that being served by road tankers shuttling to and from Mottingham station.

[Peterem]

And the Eltham Express Restaurant is now a Specsavers, after I think being a Halfords for many years! Went there for an eye test last month and remember wondering what the building was originally.

 

Regarding doorstep deliveries in the area, they still exist although Express Dairies is now part of the Arla empire. Can't work out where their milk now comes from, as Arla show no bottling facilities in South East London or West Kent.

 

Peter, Sidcup

[Tom Burnham]

I see there's a milk machine outside the Express restaurant. Used to be one like that outside the Express Dairy at The Oval, Sidcup, circa 1960.  But I digress...

Edited July 28, 2023 by Tom Burnham

[Oldddudders]

40 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

I see there's a milk machine outside the Express restaurant. Used to be one like that outside the Express Dairy at The Oval, Sidcup, circa 1960.  But I digress...

And In Morden High Street! About 60 years ago, if I was cycling back to Betchworth from Central London after a day's gricing, that milk machine gave me a healthy boost!

[Nearholmer]

We had one outside our local dairy bottling plant too. They must have been a very early user of not-bottle packaging for liquid, pre-tetrapak [correction: they were early tetrapaks, the ‘tetra’ meaning tetrahedron] I think, because they dispensed what I remember as pyramidal cartons made from heavily waxed paper, with one or two edges crinkly heat-sealed.

 

They even have an RMWeb thread! 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Peterem]

I live in Blackfen, about midway between Eltham and Sidcup, so I thought I'd check what happens in more modern times with a quick note to the milkman. Cliff has delivered milk to us as long as I can remember (but at least back to the late 80s) , well back into Express Days. He says under Express local milkmen collected supplies at their Welling depot (a couple of miles north of me). The milk was originally bottled in South Ruislip and presumably trucked across London. Arla took over and soon closed the South Ruislip bottling plant, but after several rebrandings don't seem to have changed the system much. This morning he collected my bottles from Erith. These had been bottled at Hamworth near Feltham, with milk originally supplied by Muller.

[Peterem]

I've continued to look through the ExpressDairyTales.co.uk  website (as recommended above). If you scroll down the various categories on the sidebar there's a wealth of photos and information on arrangements for milk train reception at Cricklewood and Morden South; and what they call "trunkers" - bulk milk deliveries to Express plants by road. Nothing but scattered references to Eltham, but there are some nice images of the Welling Distribution Centre, as opened by Henry Cooper in 1968; and tucked away in a stub marked "Nerd's Corner/Bits & Pieces", this...

 

Yes it is Horam , in a picture from the 1950s with a nice view of the creamery and the "milk bridge". So back to where we started.....

[Oldddudders]

Silly me! I thought tetrahedron was the RMweb milkman!

[Karhedron]

On 05/08/2023 at 20:43, Oldddudders said:

Silly me! I thought tetrahedron was the RMweb milkman!

 

Close. If I ever change my handle, I will consider that one instead. 😄

 

On 24/07/2023 at 10:59, Nearholmer said:

I’ve been through every source I can find, including those, disused stations, and the big Cuckoo Line history (Wild Swan?), Britain from above, and relevant Facebook groups  (where I bumped into another chap on the same quest), and no photo of the siding or the loading building so far.

 

There is a photo of the loading shed in my forthcoming book on milk traffic. Unfortunately I cannot post it here for copyright reasons. It was a fairly plain brick building with a pitched corrugated roof. The roof extended on the road side to form a canopy under which lorries were unloaded. Basically your assumptions in your earlier posts are pretty much spot-on.

[Nearholmer]

How forthcoming is the forthcoming book? I’m greatly looking forward to it.

[Karhedron]

On 15/08/2023 at 14:56, Nearholmer said:

How forthcoming is the forthcoming book? I’m greatly looking forward to it.

 

The book is finished. It is all in the hands of Wild Swan now. 🤞

[Nearholmer]

Now draws nigh the day when you discover some really interesting fact or photo or diagram that it is too late to include!

 

Do you think I can safely put it on my Christmas list this year?

[Karhedron]

On 25/09/2023 at 10:37, Nearholmer said:

Now draws nigh the day when you discover some really interesting fact or photo or diagram that it is too late to include!

 

That is always the way. 😄

  

On 25/09/2023 at 10:37, Nearholmer said:

Do you think I can safely put it on my Christmas list this year?

 

I was hoping it would be out in time for Christmas but to be honest, I think that might be a bit tight as it has to be set out first, then sent to the printers.