Kadee Couplings NEM solution

[josh_will]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I’m just thinking about how to manage using NEM plug-in couplings (#18 or #19) on Bachmann wagons that have the NEM socket in the ‘too high’ position.

 

Why not simply glue the tails of the Kadee couplings to the bottom of the pocket? The coupling will then line up quite well to an NEM socket at the right height.

[Yardman]

Best thing with KD's is to cut off the NEM boxes and fit either No. 5's or 148's to the floor. NEM's are a pain, too much slop in the box. None of the NEM KD 17/18/19/20 NEM's work as well as proper KD's.

[brossard]

Yardman, you are so right.  NEM couplers are unsightly and over large. Easy to do though.   #5 or similar are a better looking solution.

 

Oh and if fitting Kadees to unfitted wagons best to snip off the trip pin.  A bamboo skewer works well to uncouple wagons.

 

John

Edited September 28, 2019 by brossard

[josh_will]

Thanks for the responses, yes I agree on using the couplings fixed permanently to the wagons but I want to keep this as a last resort and go with a non-permanent solution using the NEM boxes for the time being.

[Dunsignalling]

43 minutes ago, josh_will said:

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I’m just thinking about how to manage using NEM plug-in couplings (#18 or #19) on Bachmann wagons that have the NEM socket in the ‘too high’ position.

 

Why not simply glue the tails of the Kadee couplings to the bottom of the pocket? The coupling will then line up quite well to an NEM socket at the right height.

OK if you can find a glue that will give a strong enough bond for the coupler to stay in place under load.

 

Unfortunately, the NEM Kadees are made of a shiny engineering plastic to which very few seem to adhere well.

 

I'd suggest drilling a small hole through both coupler and box with the addition of a small bit of wire (superglued in place) to reinforce the attachment.

 

John

 

 

[ISW]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

OK if you can find a glue that will give a strong enough bond for the coupler to stay in place under load.

 

Unfortunately, the NEM Kadees are made of a shiny engineering plastic to which very few seem to adhere well.

 

I'd suggest drilling a small hole through both coupler and box with the addition of a small bit of wire (superglued in place) to reinforce the attachment.

 

John

Josh / John,

 

I just went through the same process on my Bachmann Class 46 (32-701) that has a 'high' NEM pocket.

 

In the end I went with a marriage of the Bachmann 'NEM tail' from the tension lock (including the step-down bit) and the head of a Kadee #18. Superglue + 'supa Fix' made a permanent job of the connection. You can see photos at:

 

 

 

[josh_will]

Thanks again for the help once again. I’m basically just carrying out some tests on different couplings. I’ve tried sprat and winkle on some older pre-NEM stock and these work pretty well. I’m waiting on the order now for the Kadees to try those too. I had assumed with the Kadees that they would be a more straight forward conversion that would give results at least as good as the sprat and winkles but if I’m going to have to butcher stock regardless then maybe sprat and winkle is the way to go. We shall see.

[brossard]

S&W probably look more like prototypical couplings than anything else.  They are handed so wagons must be placed correctly on the layout.  Also, my understanding is that they require a magnet to uncouple.

 

For me it was always Kadee since they were not too expensive, worked reliably and the knuckle coupler looks like it belongs on a railway vehicle (just not British ones).

 

John

[josh_will]

Yes I like the appearance of sprat and winkle but I’d say my main concern is performance. I’m constructing a shunting puzzle so I want a near-faultless hands-off system, if possible. I’m trying them with both bar and electromagnets.

 

Concerning Kadees, I have to say that so far I don’t find them inexpensive. It’s over £5 just for the magnet, and 4 couplings cost just as much - and it would seem that there’s no guarantee that any given coupling will be the best fit for an individual wagon. However, I will find out the proof of the pudding soon when I try to fit and test them.

[Dominion]

Josh, on your original question, there is a simple way that I used on my early series 37-xxx Bachmann wagons. If you turn the NEM receiver pocket upside down, it will normally push back into the slot in the wagon chassis with the pocket low enough to receive the NEM kadee sitting at about the right level. The trick is to not push the block fully home up into the chassis. If you do a  couple you will get the hang of pushing it in about the right amount.

I have had a couple that are loose at that height but most have been fine and seem to stay in the right position.

Tom

[josh_will]

Thanks I’ll try that too.

[josh_will]

I’m now trying out the Kadees. It isn’t going very well. The one I put on a Bachmann class 08 is way too low, and the trip pin keeps whacking into the magnet because I keep forgetting it’s too low. I know I can adjust the pin but then I’ve got to spend another small fortune for the correct pliers.

Also there is some difficulty in getting wagons to couple up. Sometimes the couplings don’t engage and the loose wagon simply bounces off the incoming wagon/loco. Again I appreciate that there is a solution on adding more weight to the loose wagon but after seeing the delicate hooking up of the S&Ws it’s a bit off-putting.

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, josh_will said:

I’m now trying out the Kadees. It isn’t going very well. The one I put on a Bachmann class 08 is way too low, and the trip pin keeps whacking into the magnet because I keep forgetting it’s too low. I know I can adjust the pin but then I’ve got to spend another small fortune for the correct pliers.

Also there is some difficulty in getting wagons to couple up. Sometimes the couplings don’t engage and the loose wagon simply bounces off the incoming wagon/loco. Again I appreciate that there is a solution on adding more weight to the loose wagon but after seeing the delicate hooking up of the S&Ws it’s a bit off-putting.

Try taking the pocket off the loco and gluing the tail of a #20 directly into the dovetail aperture on the chassis.

 

Easy way to make wagons behave is to cut a small cube of high density foam, and make a slit across it. Place it between the underside of the wagon and one axle (the axle goes in the slit and stops the foam falling off). 

 

John

Edited October 1, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[josh_will]

Thanks John, it’s something I might look at but for me there are two issues: 1) I’ll have to go and get more couplings in a different size and 2) if I’m going to have to hack at wagons anyway, because NEM pockets are not as  straightforward as I first thought, then I may as well just go with S&W. But I’m not ruling anything out just now.

[ISW]

2 hours ago, josh_will said:

I’m now trying out the Kadees. It isn’t going very well. The one I put on a Bachmann class 08 is way too low, and the trip pin keeps whacking into the magnet because I keep forgetting it’s too low. I know I can adjust the pin but then I’ve got to spend another small fortune for the correct pliers.

Also there is some difficulty in getting wagons to couple up. Sometimes the couplings don’t engage and the loose wagon simply bounces off the incoming wagon/loco. Again I appreciate that there is a solution on adding more weight to the loose wagon but after seeing the delicate hooking up of the S&Ws it’s a bit off-putting.

Josh,

 

I had the same problem with my pair of Bachmann Class 08s. The problem is that the NEM socket is a little too large in the vertical direction, which allows the Kadee to 'droop' a bit. Easy solution is to cut a small rectangle of thin plastic (eg: a decoder plastic packaging) and push it under the Kadee into the NEM socket. That will stop the 'droop'.

 

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, josh_will said:

Thanks John, it’s something I might look at but for me there are two issues: 1) I’ll have to go and get more couplings in a different size and 2) if I’m going to have to hack at wagons anyway, because NEM pockets are not as  straightforward as I first thought, then I may as well just go with S&W. But I’m not ruling anything out just now.

I use both Kadees for my own modelling and S&Ws on a friend's large layout, so feel qualified to compare.

 

In terms of function, there's little to choose between them, assuming both are properly installed. My preference overall is for Kadees simply because I find S&Ws to be much more labour intensive. 

 

Admittedly, I've been using Kadees for many years and have developed an instinct for picking the variant that will be easiest to use in any given situation. I know how to get, and keep, them working well. For me, the process has become very much "fit and forget". On (older) Bachmann wagons, I gave up on the hopelessly misaligned NEM pockets long ago, chopped the mounts off completely and fitted #146 Kadees (or their predecessors). Newer Bachmann wagons are much better but the mounts now seem to err on the low side instead. 

 

S&W's are effectively a one-size-fits-all design and, as such, often have to be "tweaked" to fit on anything other than simple wagons and tenders. They also tend to go out of shape and thus require more frequent attention than Kadees. One recent installation I tackled was a Hornby SR Van B, on which the close proximity of the bogies to the buffer beams offered a choice of cutting away most of the bogie ends (which I hate to do, as the wheelset that end often tends to fall out), and cutting holes in the floor to allow the counterweight to start flat and move upward, which is how I went. I'm delighted how it turned out but it took a good hour to do each end and required the van to be dismantled to do it. By contrast, bunging a pair of #18 Kadees into Hornby CCUs is the work of not many minutes.

 

John

 

     

Edited October 1, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[roythebus]

I had this problem on the BR standard tank. what i done was to carefully melt the tail of a no 19 coupler with a soldering iron and make it an S shape.

 

I've found the Kadee plastic sticks far better with a soldering iron than any sort of glue I've tried. As for buying expensive Kadee pliers, ordinary round-nose pliers are just as good. I'd also suggest buying a coupler height gauge, that way you can check not only the couple for correct height but the tail as well.

 

For magnets, the Folkestone club uses 2 small round magnets mounted diagonally between the rails for uncouplers, much cheaper than the Kadee magnets.

[BR60103]

Josh:

Don't adjust the uncoupling pin until you have the knuckle at the right height. The pin is usually pretty close.

Long-nose pliers will adjust the pin. You can lengthen it by squeezing a straighter section into the curve. It can be shortened by putting one jaw where the pin sticks out of the top of the coupling, the other under the bend and squeezing very lightly. Too much squeeze will result in a V shape.

If the NEM socket is wrong, no other coupling (e.g. the European ones) will work either and will probably not even come close to coupling.

I just Kadeed a tank wagon and found one end was higher than the other which was not the case with 2 previous examples. (not Bmann)

[josh_will]

I’m having another go this evening and it’s going better. I’ve done this to the couplings, taping them to the bottom of the NEM pocket. Of course this wouldn’t be a permanent solution but it seems to get them at the right height to match the Cl 08. With the 08 I added a shim under the coupler so it now clears the magnet. There’s still the issue of the wagons not coupling up and getting pushed backwards but some added weight might sort this.

[josh_will]

I spent some more time today playing with the sprat & winkles but to my dismay they now uncouple all the time when pulling over them, despite the magnet being in the exact same location as before 

 

I must say I’m tempted to throw in the towel and just use a brass shunting pole to unhook tension locks instead. More laborious but at least I have complete control, and there’s no wobble over magnets during uncoupling due to the attraction on the axles.

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 23:59, roythebus said:

I had this problem on the BR standard tank. what i done was to carefully melt the tail of a no 19 coupler with a soldering iron and make it an S shape.

 

I've found the Kadee plastic sticks far better with a soldering iron than any sort of glue I've tried. As for buying expensive Kadee pliers, ordinary round-nose pliers are just as good. I'd also suggest buying a coupler height gauge, that way you can check not only the couple for correct height but the tail as well.

 

For magnets, the Folkestone club uses 2 small round magnets mounted diagonally between the rails for uncouplers, much cheaper than the Kadee magnets.

I take it that's the Bachmann 2-6-4T with the rather odd CCU on the back that they never fitted to anything else?

 

My answer was simply to take the shaft of an old conventional Kadee (# anything ending with a 6) and narrow down the pivot area until it fitted into the NEM pocket. Pack the pocket above/below it until it's a good fit and at the correct height, then fix in place with superglue.  

 

A height gauge should be purchased along with ones first packet of couplers - start as you mean to go on, then you won't be going back to your early efforts to put them right.

 

Electro-magnets are best in running lines, if a pair of couplers goes slack whilst passing over the permanent sort, they can easily become uncoupled.

 

Check out the Rapido one as well as the Kadee item. The latter needs a rectangular aperture in the baseboard which is fiddly to do. To fit the former it just needs a 45mm holesaw, and a spot of mastic, black tack or similar to secure the unit in place.

 

John

 

 

[Yardman]

As regards uncoupling KD's, I use servos. In my case operated via MERG circuit boards and JMRI software from a touch screen. You just need a couple of small sections of ply and a hinge as can be seen in the photo. A much cheaper alternative to Rapido or electromagnets, especially if operating signals and points by the same system. The magnet does not have to be dropped very far to disable it. You need to decide where the magnets need to be before laying the track, but this is all part of the design process. A thin piece of card covers the hole to prevent ballast falling through the hole. Incidently the problem with British short wagons and KD's is the steel weight in the wagon floor interferes with the uncoupling operation pulling the wagon towards the magnet especially if the wagons are free rolling. It is NOT the steel axles. I find suitable “weeds” planted in the four foot help produce enough drag in this respect or replace the steel weight with Lead or other non magnetic material. The advantage with KD's is you usually only need one uncoupler for a fan of sidings.

[kevinlms]

On 02/10/2019 at 13:05, BR60103 said:

Josh:

Don't adjust the uncoupling pin until you have the knuckle at the right height. The pin is usually pretty close.

 

Very definitely DO NOT touch the pin until the heads are the same height. Endless trouble will occur with couplers that don't match, as they will uncouple, with any slight bump.

[kevinlms]

On 02/10/2019 at 02:58, josh_will said:

I’m now trying out the Kadees. It isn’t going very well. The one I put on a Bachmann class 08 is way too low, and the trip pin keeps whacking into the magnet because I keep forgetting it’s too low. I know I can adjust the pin but then I’ve got to spend another small fortune for the correct pliers.

Also there is some difficulty in getting wagons to couple up. Sometimes the couplings don’t engage and the loose wagon simply bounces off the incoming wagon/loco. Again I appreciate that there is a solution on adding more weight to the loose wagon but after seeing the delicate hooking up of the S&Ws it’s a bit off-putting.

Try putting powdered graphite on the moving part of the coupler head, to make them slide easier.

 

Also make sure that the couplers are EXACTLY on the centre line, if using homemade mountings. Slight errors make a significant difference. Think of SEEP point motor mounting, if you've ever tried that - there is no margin for error!

 

You have to remember that the US market has long had a standardised mount to NRMA standards and the vast majority of US models comply.

[D.Platt]

Hi Josh

like others have already mentioned get yourself a height gauge it’s a must have .

Dennis