Imaginary Locomotives

[Compound2632]

If you want to go there then the record should probably be the property of a long scrapped Pennsylvania RR loco (either a T1 or the S1). Though maybe the recording debunker chap has dealt with those allegations.

 

He does - or at least the case of an E6 Atlantic in 1927. He allows the possibility that Milwaukee RR Atlantics and Hudsons may also have achieved 125 mph on the high-speed Hiawatha service in the late 30s but there's no detailed evidence.

[rockershovel]

Realistically, the situation was that several major railway operating networks around the world, had produced locomotives capable of maintaining 90mph average speeds, achieving 100mph regularly and approaching 130mph for short periods, under favourable conditions.

 

It's nice that Mallard holds the record and survives (I greatly doubt that any German or American locomotive would have survived to the present)

[Horsetan]

... nice that Mallard holds the record and survives (I greatly doubt that any German or American locomotive would have survived to the present)

 

The DB scrapped its record-breaking 05.002, but kept 05.001 which remains on display, partly re-streamlined, in the Nuremburg Transport Museum.

[Zomboid]

As likely as not that was a condition based decision. As 05.002 didn't hold the world record it wasn't so important to keep that specific machine.

 

As the record holder, Mallard would have to have fallen into the sea to not be preserved. But if it hadn't got the record then it would have been just another A4, and maybe the NRM would have Silver Link instead.

[Horsetan]

As likely as not that was a condition based decision. As 05.002 didn't hold the world record it wasn't so important to keep that specific machine.....

 

No, but it did have the German national record for steam.

[whart57]

One point about musing over WW1 either not occurring or not breaking out till decades later is the impact on motor transport. Motor buses and motor lorries really took off after WW1 because of two factors. One was the availability of cheap war surplus vehicles - a bus then was a lorry with seats - and the other the number of men who had learned to drive or maintain vehicles as a result of war service. The impact on light railways and the more far flung branch lines was huge but it hit most aspects of railway business. If you compare photographs of railway goods yards from before and after WW1 the effect is clearly visible. Before WW1 the sidings were full of various vehicles, after WW1 there were fewer trucks in the yard and most were coal wagons. If road motor transport had not received that boost would we have seen another generation of light railway designs?

[whart57]

No British company tried streamlined diesels for mainline use did they? The GWR Flying Bananas were for secondary lines and that was the closest. What if a company, say the Southern, did? In the Netherlands the NS introduced three coach diesel sets - which could be coupled to go up to twelve coaches - as precursors to electrification. They were timetabled faster than the steam services they replaced. Just before the war they added five coach sets. Could the Southern have introduced something similar on Waterloo to Portsmouth/Southampton/Bournemouth to show intent after the completion of Brighton electrification?

 

The high speed diesel concept did come to Britain in the sixties and seventies with the Blue Pullmans and the early HSTs,

[Niels]

*The streamlined 4-6-4 05 002 attained a maximum speed of 124.5 mph (200.4 kph) on 11 May 1936. This was in the course of a series of high-speed tests between Hamburg and Berlin. This speed was attained with a 200 ton train on the level and maintained for a distance of several kilometres. The locomotive suffered no mechanical defect.

Mallard's record (a blip on the dynamometer car trace, on a falling gradient, with failure of the middle big end) didn't start to be quoted as 126 mph until after the war. Draw your own conclusions.

As I read it mr Bulleid did not believe 126

 

Google   O.V.S.Bulleid  Locomotives I have known

[runs as required]

Going the other way, what would German Einheits-design steam engines have looked like if they had been "scaled down" to fit within the overall British loading gauge? Had such engines been procured for use in Britiain, would there then have been any need for the BR Standards?

We could have had a BR "Warship" class on display at the 1951 Festival of Britain instead of "Britannia" ?

dh

[brack]

*The streamlined 4-6-4 05 002 attained a maximum speed of 124.5 mph (200.4 kph) on 11 May 1936. This was in the course of a series of high-speed tests between Hamburg and Berlin. This speed was attained with a 200 ton train on the level and maintained for a distance of several kilometres. The locomotive suffered no mechanical defect. Mallard's record (a blip on the dynamometer car trace, on a falling gradient, with failure of the middle big end) didn't start to be quoted as 126 mph until after the war. Draw your own conclusions. (There used to be a website by a speed recording enthusiast that analysed - and in many cases debunked - various high speed records with steam. This included full details and a translation of an account of the run by one of the engineering team on the footplate. I think it may have disappeared; when I attempted to contact the author some years ago I got no response. EDIT: I've found the website.)

Blue Peter sort of did over 140mph in 1994 and was filmed doing it. I don't see the 05 equalling that.

[Budgie]

Inspired by the buffered class 43s running back to back, a double class 73.

 

Double73.jpg

This seems to be nothing but two class 73s back-to-back, and the two individual locomotives would be more useful. However, an articulated Bo-Bo-Bo would perhaps be better (or even more interesting a Bo-Co-Bo).

[Northmoor]

Come to think of it, I wonder how something like that would go with 7-8 through wired coaches in between? 

 

With two-thirds of the power of a 125 but only geared for 90, probably slightly faster than a Deltic......

[rockershovel]

Blue Peter sort of did over 140mph in 1994 and was filmed doing it. I don't see the 05 equalling that.

You'd have to hope no-one else does, either. I hardly think it qualifies as any sort of record, though.

[jjb1970]

One that I think would look very imposing would be a 4-4-4-4 duplex with the same aesthetic design and wheels as the marvellous New Haven I5 kettles.

[Corbs]

One that I think would look very imposing would be a 4-4-4-4 duplex with the same aesthetic design and wheels as the marvellous New Haven I5 kettles.

Or perhaps even a British version? Maybe a Bulleid air-smoothed design?

Edited September 16, 2017 by Corbs

[Corbs]

Or perhaps even a British version? Maybe a Bulleid air-smoothed design?

 

'We're going to need a bigger turntable'

 

 

Also, the 8 wheel tender doesn't look too bad.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Corbs

[Compound2632]

'We're going to need a bigger turntable'

 

That cries out for a cab-forward version - then with a second cab in the rear of the tender and mechanical stoker, you've got a bi-directional locomotive with no need for turntables.

[Corbs]

OR.... streamlined tender with cab lookout and mirrored controls.

[Tiptonian]

Re. the 4-4-4-4.

 

Oops, there goes the wide firebox!

[Corbs]

It's alright, we'll just use a longer one, and the fireman can have a telescopic shovel.

[LNWR18901910]

'We're going to need a bigger turntable'

 

bulleid-duplex-1.jpg

 

Also, the 8 wheel tender doesn't look too bad.

bulleid-merchant-navy-2.jpg

The pacific with the 8-wheel tender, I like - why? Because it reminds me of the LNER Pacifics with tenders like that. Or, maybe with a bogie tender like the King Arthur classes?

[Corbs]

The pacific with the 8-wheel tender, I like - why? Because it reminds me of the LNER Pacifics with tenders like that. Or, maybe with a bogie tender like the King Arthur classes?

Yes, the bogie version looks better.

[jjb1970]

What about a triplex version?

[Budgie]

What about a rebuilt version, duplex and/or triplex?

[Corbs]

Triplex? You'll have to ask the ganger's permission for that!

 

I fancy doing some more photoshops if anyone has any suggestions of things that might have been? It's easiest if I can use a model manufacturer's side-on view as a base.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Corbs