RMweb Premium DLT Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2019 7 hours ago, WIMorrison said: where do you buy the black one? - even Gaugemaster don't show a black faced combi on their website 6 hours ago, Brian said: The Gaugemaster "Black" hand held controller shown above is not a Combi. It is their Model HH which is a Feedback type and has a four core cable. Two cores Yellow and Blue are connected to a nominal 16 volt AC supply (rated 14v to 18v AC) and the other two cores Red and Black go to the rails it is to feed. Their Model W is a non feedback controller again requiring a separate nominal 16v AC power source. Same wiring colours are used in the four core cable, Quite so, Gaugemaster don't actually produce a Combi with feedback Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Gaugemaster dropped the red cased DF range with internal transformers which was as the name suggests a feedback design, quote: "GAUGEMASTER feedback controllers feature a pulsed design, with excellent low speed running and Constant Speed over points, around curves and up and down gradients. A degree of motor heating and noise may be experienced with sustained low speed running. Not suitable for coreless motors such as Portescap or poor quality "N" gauge motors." I've found modern high quality motors don't need feedback. They run at constant speed regardless of the controller used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 2, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, maico said: I've found modern high quality motors don't need feedback. They run at constant speed regardless of the controller used. ??? That's a new one on me. You increase the load (gradient), the speed drops, (It's physics) Feedback can be used to counteract it by increasing the voltage. You increase the load (more coaches/wagons), the speed drops, (it's physics) feedback can be used to counteract it by increasing the voltage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, melmerby said: ??? That's a new one on me. You increase the load (gradient), the speed drops, (It's physics) Feedback can be used to counteract it by increasing the voltage. You increase the load (more coaches/wagons), the speed drops, (it's physics) feedback can be used to counteract it by increasing the voltage. Well, I've got an incline on my track and a 40 year old Fleischman DB 103 and 1970's Wrenns will slow to a crawl but a recent Piko DB 221 or slightly older Brawa DB 216 only slightly. They don't speed up on the decent either like the old stuff. The Piko seems particularly efficient, it will crawl through Trix-C track turnouts at only 0.9v without hesitation. All a feedback controller would add is low speed buzzing. Edited December 3, 2019 by maico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 hours ago, maico said: Well, I've got an incline on my track and a 40 year old Fleischman DB 103 and 1970's Wrenns will slow to a crawl but a recent Piko DB 221 or slightly older Brawa DB 216 only slightly. They don't speed up on the decent either like the old stuff. The Piko seems particularly efficient, it will crawl through Trix-C track turnouts at only 0.9v without hesitation. All a feedback controller would add is low speed buzzing. That could be more to do with your controller than the motors. Older motors do tend to take a lot of current and your controller's output voltage might be dropping as the load increases on higher current motors. You could find out if that's happening with your meter. All DC motors slow as the load increases. As the motor draws more current the voltage drop across the motor's internal resistance increases. That means more of the supplied energy is wasted as heat rather than doing useful work. It's not difficult to compensate for that voltage drop without pulsing the motor supply. That might be more suitable for coreless motors but I don't know of any controllers that do it that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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