mdvle Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 LNER is advising delays to service, apparently an 80x and HST collided while both empty. Twitter message by LNER - https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1194790239312711681 Picture on Twitter - https://twitter.com/stuartthomas/status/1194763023224918016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 800109 in collision with 43300 with 43308 on the opposite end. At least one car of the IET was derailed probably one bogie judging by the image. Actually - more than one bogie having looked at that linked image. Edited November 14, 2019 by Covkid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 5944 Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2019 43300 possibly written off, due for withdrawal shortly anyway. Seems that there may be damage to 3 or 4 vehicles from 800109 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Better pics in this Twitter thread 4 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 And in this one 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) Bit of video here of the Azuma. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/transport/shocking-photographs-show-horrific-damage-to-azuma-lner-train-following-leeds-station-depot-crash-1-10103283 I'm surprised that at least two Azuma coaches derailed in this "low speed" collision. The front coaches in the HST seem OK and on the track. Brit15 Edited November 14, 2019 by APOLLO 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_A Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Difficult to understand the mechanism for this, but it's not reassuring to see the 80x's carriages so out of alignment with each other: in an accident involving a train in service, carriages decoupling (if that's what's happened) very much increases the potential for a severe outcome. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post russ p Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 The 800 seems to have come off a lot worse, looks like the intermediate bar couplers have allowed a lot more lateral movement than Buckeyes or tightlocks. Still the team that specified it know far more that the BR engineers that designed the HST 3 6 9 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, russ p said: Still the team that specified it know far more that the BR engineers that designed the HST I assume that comment is meant to be very tongue in cheek. 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 31 minutes ago, russ p said: The 800 seems to have come off a lot worse, looks like the intermediate bar couplers have allowed a lot more lateral movement than Buckeyes or tightlocks. They are 26m long vehicles, surely that's to be expected? The offset as they go through tight pointwork is eye-opening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_A Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 If so, this has implications for an 80x that derails at speed as it makes it easier for a carriage end to be directed into lodging against an obstacle. 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Oldddudders Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Christopher125 said: They are 26m long vehicles, surely that's to be expected? The offset as they go through tight pointwork is eye-opening. Indeed. But when you change a long-established principle, any trade-off needs to be understood. Fortunately no-one has been hurt, but the behaviour in a collision of the 8xx is going to be the subject of some head-scratching, I hope. 1 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Whole heap of factors for the incident analysis to consider; as a system having the traction distributed along the train will make for a very different scenario than nice heavy traction lumps on the ends. 1 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Oldddudders said: Indeed. But when you change a long-established principle, any trade-off needs to be understood. Fortunately no-one has been hurt, but the behaviour in a collision of the 8xx is going to be the subject of some head-scratching, I hope. No body was hurt, so no need to investigate, but when a lightweight 800 hits a comparatively heavy lump like a class 43 then it comes off worse. Its when one hits a Landrover Cow or aggregate train at speed that we will see if how safe they really are compared to the HST or Loco hauled train. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2019 Looks as though the Rail Accident Investigation Branch is gathering evidence from the site before determining any further course of action. RAIB Tweet 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2019 Even mk1s stay more in line than that, when the HST derailed at northallerton in 1979 at over 100mph it destroyed the track but the coaches although moving off line due to the track not being there stayed inline with each other. I would hate to think what would happen to an 800 in the same circumstances but very serious questions need to be asked and soon , and sale and scrapping of mk4s and 91s should be put on hold incase it turns out the 800 is a death trap. 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It might well turn out to be that the final position of the trains doesn't properly reflect the point of collision - if the derailed coaches were traversing the crossover a few cars back from their present position when it collided i'm not sure I'm all that surprised that they derailed, or that they moved a fair way out of alignment with the other cars after derailing there... And if that is what has happened, then comparisons to other derailments on straight track at speed may not be especially relevant. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2019 The coach have derailed because of impact with an HST but they should have NOT gone so far out of line as a result of this 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2019 One word. Worrying. P 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, russ p said: The coach have derailed because of impact with an HST but they should have NOT gone so far out of line as a result of this And one of those trains appears to have had it's coaches all in a straight line at the point of impact so the force would go straight down the centre line of the train through the couplers, whilst the other train appears to have been traversing a low speed (sharp) crossover, so the forces there will work differently... Lets wait and see is all i'm saying. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Agreed... 2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: One word. Worrying. I'd suggest "guessing" is a better word at this stage... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) If they are anything like the Voyagers they'll just remove the cab, check everything is straight (replacing what isn't right) and replace with a new cab. Crumple zone worked anyhow... Certainly one driver with a few questions to answer... Edited November 14, 2019 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
62613 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hobby said: If they are anything like the Voyagers they'll just remove the cab, check everything is straight (replacing what isn't right) and replace with a new cab. Crumple zone worked anyhow... Certainly one driver with a few questions to answer... Form 1? 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Depends what caused it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted November 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Glorious NSE said: And one of those trains appears to have had it's coaches all in a straight line at the point of impact so the force would go straight down the centre line of the train through the couplers, whilst the other train appears to have been traversing a low speed (sharp) crossover, so the forces there will work differently... Lets wait and see is all i'm saying. Where is the crossover in the picture that the 800 was going over? It looks like plain line that its sat on to me. And that really is a worrying outcome.... Andy G 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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