Tyteford Halte

[MAP66]

That’s looking good and you have the couplings fitted, I can imagine your completed pimped up auto coach in all its splendour sat at the platform. I managed to assemble one set of steps and have offered it up to where I think it should be positioned. For some reason, when I started this a few years back, I thought the steps would stick out too far but its not the case. Thanks to your testing, we now have conclusive proof otherwise.

 

Back to the build, I said that I would try and stick to the sequence of assembly within the instructions and now that we know about the passenger steps, I have decided to fit these last as well as the corner and cab steps. As much handling of the underframe is still required, I feel it wise to leave these vulnerable detailing items to last. As previously mentioned, the passenger steps can still be assembled at this stage but I am not fitting them to the body until last.

 

So we re-join at item 3.3 (f) the last paragraph of this stage covers the detailing required to the underside of the underframe at the Loco end. This has less detailing than at the drivers end, so I thought let’s start with the easier end first. The instructions quote under last para of item 3.3 (f) “The auto rod ‘V’ hanger (item 2 of fret 2) is fitted at the locomotive end”. So that’s that ‘V’ hanger identified and it is also stamped into the base of the part and with ref to fig.13 to show what goes where.

 

I proceeded as follows;

• With loco end bogie in place mark the extent of rotation available for the bogie left and right, you want to retain this movement as much as possible after the detailing parts are fitted, then remove bogie.
• Now remove item 2 from fret 2 (the ‘V’ hanger) and fold at the etched lines. The number 2 will be facing upwards when fitted.
• With a small piece of blu tac on the base of the hanger, offer into position (without glue) under the screw coupling retaining spring with the slope angle of the hanger facing to the front of the coach end. Ensure the front base of the hanger is hard up against the internal lip of the sole bar. Do not remove the internal lip in order to gain more space, other wise the auto coupling (cast part) will not locate correctly.
• Now refit the bogie and test for movement, if movement is unaffected then remove bogie and glue hanger in place, I used superglue gel as it gives a few more seconds to position stuff. If the bogie fouls against the back of the hanger then some material can be removed from the front of the bogie frame and/or the front base of the hanger. In my case, the coach is not destined for tighter radius curves so although the bogie movement is slightly less, it’s not a problem for me.
• Now we refer to stage 3.3 (m) and still fig.13 to fit the correct (A28 or A30) in my case A30 cross shaft. The cross shaft is a cast part and will need a bit of filing prep work before fitting into the hanger. Take note of the crank positions when fitting.
• Next, fit the auto coupling which is another cast part. There are 2 of them and I couldn’t identify if they were the same or do they differ slightly for each end? Any way, I fitted one of them after some prep filing. The angled part fits over the front of the solebar, I did my best to get the correct position by referring to fig.13 & 14 of the instructions. For the real prototypical modeller, I would recommend referring to images of the real thing.
• The final confusing item to fit to complete this stage is a linkage represented by item 7 from fret 2. I bent it at the etch line and you can refer to image below to see my interpretation of how I think it should go.

I should mention that for the loco end I am leaving the steam and vacuum hoses off for now. As I intend the coach and 14XX to be permanently coupled I am working on a solution for these hoses to be connected to the loco in a flexible way.

So here are the images for the loco end underframe detailing.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by MAP66
Added additional image

[MrWolf]

I got the steps and battery boxes folded up yesterday and soldered last night. I'm used to soldering circuitry with an electric iron and big stupid things like fuel tanks, pipework and Victorian gas lamps with a torch and copper bit, so this is a good way to get a different head on and learning more about brass kits.

 

 

I've been sorting parts out into groups of what goes where, drilled out various holes and trimmed the parts for the driving end hanger too.

 

Time to follow your lead once more. BTW, I PM'd you with some possibly useful information.

 

Rob Wolf

 

 

 

[MrWolf]

I've caught up a little, Locomotive end bits assembled.

I'm sure that I would be stating the obvious by reminding you to cut down the coupling hook split pin so that it doesn't foul the v hangers and fail to compress the spring.

 

The other bit in the picture was because I thought it would be awkward. It wasn't. It's the angle iron v hanger, A30 only. I've no idea what it does yet and A30 keeps confusing me, I always imagine Austin A30, which as most of you will know, is a small car that looks like an old enamel teapot...

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

Interesting thread thank you @MAP66.

 

Particularly your Autocoach build - I don’t have the Dart castings kit, but now that I’m seeing your build, I think I need to add it to the build list. 
 

Watching with interest, thank you.

[MAP66]

It’s great to hear that a few of you are now following with interest and may even take one of these on for themselves (no pressure on me then to get this right) Also important to mention again that this is the way I’m going about it, you can add the detailing in any order you like. The way I’ve gone about it works for me and I’m attempting to highlight any confusing stages within the instructions so that others are not put off by having a go, like I was a few years back.

 

This is a good opportunity to also thank everyone for all the likes and additional comments, especially@MrWolfwho has more or less now caught up with me in the build. Also thanks to @Neal Ball who has also supplied some good reference material, keep it coming I say.

 

So, we press on again and still on the underframe but now at the opposite (Drivers end) and its busy down there with a lot to cram in. So as before, check bogie clearances before and after each stage. We start at item 3.3 (g) which are the two cast (not brass) parking brake ‘V’ hangers. One of the ‘V’ hangers is cast with the parking hand brake screw attached which threw me for a bit, as I was looking for two identical hangers as shown in fig. 11 which does not show the hand brake screw. Fig 6a shows the brake hangers with hand brake screw in place. The cast parts will need a bit of sharpening up with a file and so will the ‘T’ shaped cross shaft which locates between the hangers. I found that I had to remove some of the metal base and front edge of the brake hangers to allow them to locate correctly hard up against the front of the sole bar, same process as at the loco end.

 

The next step is covered under item 3.3 (h) the plate hangers and is a real pain. The plate hangers are brass and are item 1 from fret 2 but they need to be marked out and cut as shown in fig. 9. Apparently, due to an error on the etch. Well, if they know about it, Dart Castings have had many, many years to correct it – poor show. I sought of nipped away at the areas to be removed with various tools, made a bit of a pig’s ear of it, but eventually got the job done.

 

I found the best way to fit the plate hangers was to loose fit the cross shaft first in order to gauge the width apart for the two hangers. Fig 11 is rubbish and gives no clue on how they should be installed to the underframe, some idea is provided by reference to fig (6a) but that is still not entirely clear. Look at the images below which show how I fitted the plate hangers, as too difficult to describe in words.

I would also recommend studying the images below to see how I fitted the cross shaft with the brass etch links instead of trying to get your head around the fig. 10 drawing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

12 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

It’s great to hear that a few of you are now following with interest and may even take one of these on for themselves (no pressure on me then to get this right) Also important to mention again that this is the way I’m going about it, you can add the detailing in any order you like. The way I’ve gone about it works for me and I’m attempting to highlight any confusing stages within the instructions so that others are not put off by having a go, like I was a few years back.

 

This is a good opportunity to also thank everyone for all the likes and additional comments, especially@MrWolfwho has more or less now caught up with me in the build. Also thanks to @Neal Ball who has also supplied some good reference material, keep it coming I say.

 

So, we press on again and still on the underframe but now at the opposite (Drivers end) and its busy down there with a lot to cram in. So as before, check bogie clearances before and after each stage. We start at item 3.3 (g) which are the two cast (not brass) parking brake ‘V’ hangers. One of the ‘V’ hangers is cast with the parking hand brake screw attached which threw me for a bit, as I was looking for two identical hangers as shown in fig. 11 which does not show the hand brake screw. Fig 6a shows the brake hangers with hand brake screw in place. The cast parts will need a bit of sharpening up with a file and so will the ‘T’ shaped cross shaft which locates between the hangers. I found that I had to remove some of the metal base and front edge of the brake hangers to allow them to locate correctly hard up against the front of the sole bar, same process as at the loco end.

 

The next step is covered under item 3.3 (h) the plate hangers and is a real pain. The plate hangers are brass and are item 1 from fret 2 but they need to be marked out and cut as shown in fig. 9. Apparently, due to an error on the etch. Well, if they know about it, Dart Castings have had many, many years to correct it – poor show. I sought of nipped away at the areas to be removed with various tools, made a bit of a pig’s ear of it, but eventually got the job done.

 

I found the best way to fit the plate hangers was to loose fit the cross shaft first in order to gauge the width apart for the two hangers. Fig 11 is rubbish and gives no clue on how they should be installed to the underframe, some idea is provided by reference to fig (6a) but that is still not entirely clear. Look at the images below which show how I fitted the plate hangers, as too difficult to describe in words.

I would also recommend studying the images below to see how I fitted the cross shaft with the brass etch links instead of trying to get your head around the fig. 10 drawing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There certainly is a lot going on at both ends!

 

I would be tempted to change the bogies for a suitable pair from Comet. Is there any merit in keeping the originals? 

 

I might add, my Autocoach is an original Airfix one 😎

[MAP66]

3 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

There certainly is a lot going on at both ends!

 

I would be tempted to change the bogies for a suitable pair from Comet. Is there any merit in keeping the originals? 

 

I might add, my Autocoach is an original Airfix one 😎

Yes, I needed a shoe horn to make it all fit in 😄 I kept the original bogies to keep the cost down and also after discovering that they could accommodate P4 wheels without any modifications. Just out of interest, do you know if the comet ones are just cosmetic side frames. My auto coach is also Airfix as it has it stamped onto the  underframe, not sure of its actual age though. While I'm about it, would you know of suitable buffer replacements (sprung) if possible?

 

Thanks

Mark

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, MAP66 said:

Yes, I needed a shoe horn to make it all fit in 😄 I kept the original bogies to keep the cost down and also after discovering that they could accommodate P4 wheels without any modifications. Just out of interest, do you know if the comet ones are just cosmetic side frames. My auto coach is also Airfix as it has it stamped onto the  underframe, not sure of its actual age though. While I'm about it, would you know of suitable buffer replacements (sprung) if possible?

 

Thanks

Mark

 

Thanks Mark,

 

I haven't looked closely at the replacement bogies yet on the Comet site - but they will be cosmetic side frames onto a Brass former.

 

As for sprung buffers, I haven't seen any at all. But I have seen white metal ones somewhere. They are obviously a lot longer than normal buffers. I have just looked on the Wizard; Dart; Roxey sites and can't see them, but someone will know where to source them.

[MrWolf]

I found this picture on Wikipedia under "Autocoach" and thought it might be of interest, it shows the steps stowed and the handrails in the lowered position.

 

 

I have zero excuse for not putting mine together now!

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by MrWolf
Illiteracy

[MrWolf]

So, I did. Not as fiddly as I expected, the big ugly part is hidden behind the solebars.

 

[chuffinghell]

I must confess that I too have the conversation kit, although I opened the box took one look and said to myself  “nope” and closed it again

 

Hats off to those much braver and skilled than I

[MAP66]

34 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

So, I did. Not as fiddly as I expected, the big ugly part is hidden behind the solebars.

 

well done for getting them assembled, I found it a bit tedious but I do have sausage fingers. Are you going to fit them to the coach last along with the corner steps? I think they could easily be damaged if fitted now. Speaking of which, I was in two minds as to use epoxy resin or continue with super glue gel. The gel has bonded the brass and white metal very securely to the plastic underframe so far and as there is a fairly large brass flat surface for the gel to adhere to and bond to the underframe, I think that I've just convinced myself - superglue gel it is.

[MAP66]

3 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

I must confess that I too have the conversation kit, although I opened the box took one look and said to myself  “nope” and closed it again

 

Hats off to those much braver and skilled than I

Nice to hear from you Chris, Maybe if I pull this off you might open that box again? How's it going over at Warren Branch?

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, MAP66 said:

Nice to hear from you Chris, Maybe if I pull this off you might open that box again? How's it going over at Warren Branch?

Progress on Warren Branch has slowed a little while I’m working on another project as well as other things going on at the moment

 

I have to admit that multi-tasking is an alien concept to me unfortunately 

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, MAP66 said:

well done for getting them assembled, I found it a bit tedious but I do have sausage fingers. Are you going to fit them to the coach last along with the corner steps? I think they could easily be damaged if fitted now. Speaking of which, I was in two minds as to use epoxy resin or continue with super glue gel. The gel has bonded the brass and white metal very securely to the plastic underframe so far and as there is a fairly large brass flat surface for the gel to adhere to and bond to the underframe, I think that I've just convinced myself - superglue gel it is.

 

I too have hands like shovels, one of which doesn't always work properly. I found that holding the over length pins in the vice helped, or holding parts in tweezers and putting the tweezers in the vice left both hands free.

Superglue gel for me, or a one part 3 minute epoxy.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

28 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

I too have hands like shovels, one of which doesn't always work properly. I found that holding the over length pins in the vice helped, or holding parts in tweezers and putting the tweezers in the vice left both hands free.

Superglue gel for me, or a one part 3 minute epoxy.

I like the idea of placing the tweezers in a vice to hold them steady - a good tip: in my experience hand-held tweezers tend to act like more like catapaults!  I just need to get a vice.  Thanks for the suggestion, Keith.

[MrWolf]

7 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I like the idea of placing the tweezers in a vice to hold them steady - a good tip: in my experience hand-held tweezers tend to act like more like catapaults!  I just need to get a vice.  Thanks for the suggestion, Keith.

 

I put an antique of a 1-1/4" jaw vice on the Bench of Bodge and don't know how I managed without one before. 

[MrWolf]

Current state of play. The steps are only trial fitted and will be staying loose until the brake gear and other assorted entanglements have been meticulously sworn at...

 

 

As can be seen, I've spent some time picking out the lino, varnished wood and plush upholstery with a little paint. Humbrol 234, 62 & 160 respectively. I found that a thin coat of 62 on the seat ends etc gave the translucent effect I was looking for.

 

I might add a few passengers and I'm wondering what to do about changing those Didcot destination boards?

 

[MAP66]

Ah ha, you've started on the coach interior. Looking good so far, I've been looking forward to getting the paints out for that stage. Before that though, I'm still lurking underneath putting in the two sets of brake 'V' hangers and cross shafts. Should have something on that front to post tomorrow. Oh, and I think I may have sussed where that single angle iron 'V' hanger goes 🤔

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Current state of play. The steps are only trial fitted and will be staying loose until the brake gear and other assorted entanglements have been meticulously sworn at...

 

 

As can be seen, I've spent some time picking out the lino, varnished wood and plush upholstery with a little paint. Humbrol 234, 62 & 160 respectively. I found that a thin coat of 62 on the seat ends etc gave the translucent effect I was looking for.

 

I might add a few passengers and I'm wondering what to do about changing those Didcot destination boards?

 

I wonder if the steps might benefit from a section of brass soldered onto the top, to go through the floor. That way any knocks when handling might reduce the chance of them coming off.

[MAP66]

I am now tackling the brake ‘V’ hangers and for the outermost one of each side, as I previously mentioned, I am utilising the retained plastic moulded ones which are part of the truss frame. The brass ‘V’ hangers are from fret 1 and there are 2 of them.

 

When removed from the fret and folded along the etch lines they are ready to receive the cross shafts. I followed the instructions here under item 3.3 (r) and with reference to fig 6/6a and 7. The images below show that I have fitted the cross shafts as per shown in the aforementioned figure drawings. It was then a case of gluing the base of the ‘V’ hanger with cross shafts previously glued in place onto the underside of the underframe.

 

The outside ‘V’ hanger of both assemblies fits hard up against the moulded plastic truss ‘V’ hanger (they are the same height) and done this way, as the brass is very thin, when all painted in will not be noticeable. The below images will show what I mean.

 

This is the way I have done it, utilising the existing hangers results in not everything in the exact locations as shown in the drawings but it works for me. If you prefer, the moulded plastic hangers can be removed and the brass ‘V’ hanger assemblies can be positioned exactly as the drawing shows. I have also found a home for the angle iron 'V' hanger, I think its correct? Hopefully its made clear below;

 

 

 

[MrWolf]

3 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I wonder if the steps might benefit from a section of brass soldered onto the top, to go through the floor. That way any knocks when handling might reduce the chance of them coming off.

 

That's an interesting point, however the (out of sight) rear mounting bracket does give a 55mm square area for adhesive so I suspect that the steps are more at risk of being mangled than knocked off. 

They are afforded some protection by the truss rods and the bogie however.

[MrWolf]

I'm glad you worked out where the extra v hanger goes, there's also mention of a 2" angle V hanger on the regulator control along with the coil spring supports. I was looking at the diagram last night and saw something about an extra on the A30 brake.

 

What I couldn't figure out was the orientation of the vacuum pipe to the cylinders or where it connected to the cylinder,

I was going to look for a picture today so left them off.

All those bits can go on now.

 

I didn't fancy trying to bend and thread the v hanger through the truss rods or cut away the moulded one either.

My cheat was to drill 0.8 through the boss on the moulded V hanger and cut the brass one off one end like this.

 

[MAP66]

Your fix for the 'V' hanger works just as well, I thought about doing it that way, but leaving the outer brass hanger in place isn't noticeable or won't be when painted.

Now I have to confess that I have now reached the stage on the underframe where I'm stumped. It's brass rod and single hangers time and I haven't a scooby where to start on that, no matter how many times I study the dodgy drawings.

 

I guess, the best bit would be to fit the battery boxes, then the dynamo and see what space you have left to work with? Any thoughts...

[MrWolf]

I wasn't confident that I could get the new and old V hanger to line up, so I cut it off.

 

I'm thinking the same way as you that we fit all the other detail parts before doing anything to the control rods, except probably the compensator rod between the two cylinders? 

 

The bogies will have to be refitted as once the auto rod etc is in, it will be impossible to remove them.

It might be an idea to fit as much as possible, paint the underframe, wheels and bogies before reassembling the chassis complete and only then adding the rods where they won't cause a bind up with the bogies. At least we can use the hangers to support the rods and cut them short where they go out of sight?