Lower Thames Yard

[David Bigcheeseplant]

Hi Paul

you might be interested in the attached image as it shows the proposed engine shed at Princes Risborough, as a two road shed which later extension to a eight road shed with elevated coal stage. Would defiantly may an interesting what if.

David 

Edited February 7, 2022 by David Bigcheeseplant

[Tallpaul69]

Thanks for the Princes Risborough plan Dave,

my Bradenham plan is along similar lines although the space is shorter so the lengths of the tracks in front of the shed building is shorter.

The longer sidings in the plan make it easier to handle coal and ash wagons, whereas I have added an additional siding.

Cheers

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

I've just been cheered up by the arrival of a large box, which I expect to contain my signals and associated control gear from Stephen Freeman.

I won't get to unpack them until the weekend, as I will need a couple of hours undisturbed to unpack them and lay the items out ! There will also be Stephens instructions to digest.

I don't expect to start installing them for some time until the weather is warmer for longer than the odd day. I will post some photos early next week.

Meanwhile, I have been looking back over the last year, and realised that a lot has been achieved although at times progress has seemed slow. 1 year or so ago, I had only a one yard test track to run on, no certainty as to what layout would be built or when, loco chipping was progressing slowly and Kadee coupling conversion remained a daunting task.

Now, with Wycombe End available, purchased as as a scenically finished layout, and Bradenham delivered, installed and running, although without scenic treatment, plus routes to increasing the sound fitted and Kadee fitted fleets, by purchase of second hand items, funded by sales of unfitted items established, the situation is much brighter!   

 

Over the next year, without time taken away from modelling for layout design and build issue discussions, I can get to grips with signal installation, uncoupler placement, ballasting and basic scenic treatment on Bradenham. Having now a basis sound fitted fleet for the four eras I want to operate, the emphasis on chip fitment will be on the DMU and DEMU fleets for the more modern eras.

As few sound fitted examples of the modern class 166, 168, or 800 units seem to come to the second hand market, these will be expensive to sound fit as they require two chips or more each!

 

Still, at least my wallet faces little challenge from the Majors recent model announcements!

 

Cheers for now, happy modelling,

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

My write up yesterday ignored what is perhaps my "Elephant in the room", which is the link between Bradenham and Wycombe End.

It sonly some 9 inches, but involves quite a lot of effort:-

Firstly, the two layouts are some 3-4mm different in level. So I need to remove all the items accumulated under Wycombe End over the last year so that I can access all the legs to raise the layout to match Bradenham.

Then, I need to remove the end board from Wycombe End fiddle yard that faces Bradenham. Ironically when Simon made the fiddle yard to go with Wycombe End I got him to take a section of the above baseboard part of this end board out to allow for this connection, but unfortunately, when Bradenham was made, the tracks to make the connection ended up not aligned with the gap!  

Lastly, I need to decide how the track on the connecting board will be powered. I can see three possibilities:-

a) I could connect the track to one or other of the layouts by conducting fishplates and fit insulating fishplates to the other end. But which layout should I connect to, does it matter?

b) I could connect the track to each of the layouts by conducting fishplates at each end. But will the NEC controllers in the two layouts "interfere"? - perhaps i just need to plug one controller into the second socket on it's interface so it acts as an auxiliary controller. However I don't know if one controller will be able to control the whole of both layouts?

c) I could connect the track as b) above but also install a bus connecting Wycombe End's bus to Bradenham's bus via a length of bus under the connecting board. However, the same concerns as in b) remain, but maybe the additional bus will improve the range of the controllers?

Comments from DCC experts (or others!) welcome?

 

The other activity on the layouts, I have not mentioned yesterday or today is the track, wiring etc. for Bradenham Loco Shed, but more on this another day.

Best regards

Paul

[5BarVT]

A) has a problem - when a train straddles to insulating fishplates you have connected two different track busses together.  I’m almost certain that you will blow up one or other.  B) and C) just do that without needing a train.

Your B2/C2 options just give an extra handset but no extra power (and you have to be careful to use the curly cable to connect to avoid damage).

Are you a PowerCab user or do you have something more powerful/flexible?  If you are PowerCab I don’t think you can increase the power.

I think you might be able to use a SPROG booster with Option A (SPROG input connected to PowerCab side, output beyond insulating fishplates).

Paul.

 

[Tallpaul69]

My thanks to Paul (5BarVT) for confirming my line of thinking, so I will need to work through providing a Bus for the whole system.

Luckily, I do have a NEC Power unit, in addition to the Power Cabs, so fingers crossed power should be ok.

I do have a curly lead for each PowerCab, so the correct connecting lead should not be a problem.

It will also be necessary to assign a cab No. to each Powercab.

 

I wanted to minimise the work I need to do, as this is only an interim linking of the two layouts.

Longer term I want to increase the train holding capacity by a number of loops between the two junctions at either end of Bradenham, with a junction to feed Wycombe end. This will probably need the Wycombe End fiddle yard board being replaced with a larger one that includes the area of the bridging board discussed above. 

 

Next posting I will include a sketch explaining the above, as I appreciate the words are not sufficient to make clear what I am planning.

Cheers All,

Paul 

[Tallpaul69]

I have been busy today making a start on unpacking the signals, and their servos etc. I have only so far examined 2 of the 4 main boxes that arrived.

So here is one semaphore, the three arm down home, which has main, down to up platform and down to up bay arms. In fact this will be the last semaphore to be installed as it is the most complicated!  

 

 

Sorry, can't get this image upright for some reason!

 

Cheers

Paul

[Nick Gough]

15 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I have been busy today making a start on unpacking the signals, and their servos etc. I have only so far examined 2 of the 4 main boxes that arrived.

So here is one semaphore, the three arm down home, which has main, down to up platform and down to up bay arms. In fact this will be the last semaphore to be installed as it is the most complicated!  

 

 

Sorry, can't get this image upright for some reason!

 

Cheers

Paul

Very nice!

[Tallpaul69]

I have now unpacked everything that Stephen sent me for the signals.

I think I underestimated the work involved in getting these signals up and running.

Never mind, the results should be impressive and justify the effort.

 

First stage will be to write up a "to do"  list, and pass this by Stephen to see what important stages I have missed. I will also post it here for interested parties to comment.

I intend to follow my own "measure at least twice and cut once" advice before cutting any holes in the baseboards and will take the advice in the Megapoints manual for the servo controllers and set up a "bench" trial signal set up, so that I know if there is anything that is going to be tricky to do underneath the baseboards. 

 

So all the other work that I listed in my recent posts is going to be delayed, although no doubt some will get at least started when I need a break from "those darned signals"!

 

As it was forecast as warmer today, was going to spend the afternoon in the railway room, but it has thrown it down all day, so I am staying in the house, getting on with the "to do" list for the signals.

Happy Modelling All,

Regards, Paul

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I have now unpacked everything that Stephen sent me for the signals.

I think I underestimated the work involved in getting these signals up and running.

Never mind, the results should be impressive and justify the effort.

 

First stage will be to write up a "to do"  list, and pass this by Stephen to see what important stages I have missed. I will also post it here for interested parties to comment.

I intend to follow my own "measure at least twice and cut once" advice before cutting any holes in the baseboards and will take the advice in the Megapoints manual for the servo controllers and set up a "bench" trial signal set up, so that I know if there is anything that is going to be tricky to do underneath the baseboards. 

 

So all the other work that I listed in my recent posts is going to be delayed, although no doubt some will get at least started when I need a break from "those darned signals"!

 

As it was forecast as warmer today, was going to spend the afternoon in the railway room, but it has thrown it down all day, so I am staying in the house, getting on with the "to do" list for the signals.

Happy Modelling All,

Regards, Paul

Measure twice, cut once, throw away, measure again...

[5BarVT]

5 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

"measure at least twice and cut once" advice before cutting any holes in the baseboards

 

21 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Measure twice, cut once, throw away, measure again...

Bit difficult when its a hole.

Paul.

[Tallpaul69]

On 15/02/2022 at 21:27, 5BarVT said:

 

Bit difficult when its a hole.

Paul.

Too right!

My current thoughts on locating and drilling my signal mounting holes are:-

1) use a couple of old scrap signals to see how a signal looks at a given position. I only have single arm old signals, so might adapt one of these with some card and other bits to mimic the bracket signals.

2) look at my sketches and photos of the underside of the relevant board done before the boards (complete with track and electrics/point motors etc., but without any cabling for signals)  were installed, to see if there are potential conflicts.

3) after any adjustments to take care of under board conflicts, drill pilot (1mm?) hole.

4) pass nail down pilot hole, look under board at end of nail for position. use nil to help position the servo brackets which will actuate signal. (Bracket signals can have up to 4 servos depending on the number of arms.)

5) Use pilot hole to correctly position/centre main 10mm mounting hole........

 

What can go wrong???? - I expect LOTS!!

 

More on my installation check list to follow, but I do need to sketch out the rough positions of all the signals and servos as well as the other bits to make the system work. I think I will need to make up some cable harnesses for the tidy running of the cables from the servos back to the latching relay boards and the two 12 channel Megapoint servo controllers.

As there are two of these, I think I will locate one under the right hand baseboard and one under the centre baseboard, as all but two of the signals are on these two boards, and the other two signals are just near the right edge of the left hand baseboard. 

 

Sorry, if you are confused, I will try next time to post some pictures to help make all clear!

 

More anon!

cheers, for now, hoping you all and your homes (if in the uk!) are ok after the storms today?

Paul 

 

   

[Tallpaul69]

How time flies when you are enjoying yourself!?

Where have the days since my last Friday's posting gone? 

 

Apart from sorting storm damage at mine and my eldest sons homes (nothing serious, just fence panels and plant supports); celebrating same son's Birthday; and commiserating with/supporting from afar youngest  son whose daughter, wife and self have all failed Covid tests(!); not a lot seems to have been achieved.

 

However, having spent some time thinking through the installation of my signals, I have decided it would be a good idea to centralise the electrics/electronics for them on what I am calling a “control panel”.

This is not a control panel in the sense of having knobs and switches on it but a panel with all the relay boards, Megapoint Servo Controller boards, and DCC interfaces mounted on it.

It will be mounted vertically off of the side frame of one of the baseboards.  

 

I mention this to Stephen Freeman before doing too much planning of it so that he could tell me anything to take into account in the design which might not be apparent to me from the other documentation. He has raised some valid points which I will take into account about the positioning of the Servo Control boards and servo cables relative to the tracks and also indicated that I might need to shield the cables from interference from the locos.

It is a long while since I did anything like this, but I think it will pay dividends in terms of future access and fault finding. It is also a job that I can tackle mostly away from the layout, so can be done when the weather is keeps me out off the Railway Room.

 

So, on with the design.

I first need to get an idea of the size in order to decide where it fits best to the base board and legs, probably best done by laying out all the boards on a table to decide on orientation, cable routes etc. although probably the first key decision is how to mount the pcbs to the panel:-

The options that occur to me are a) flat on pillars using the screw holes in each corner of the boards, which would be very secure, but the disadvantage is the room needed and therefore the large size of the base panel, or b) on edge using clips along one board edge, which will save a lot of space, but will be less secure, unless I complicate construction by having another panel at right angles to the main one so that clips can be on two edges of the pcbs. Clip location could be an issue as they will need to miss any components on or near the pcb edges, both the physical components and their soldered tails on the underside of the pcbs. 

 

Hopefully, the above makes sense, more to follow in a day or two, and maybe a few sketches to explain things!

 

Cheers for now,

Paul

 

[Tallpaul69]

Planning of the signal controls board continues. 

An important decision now made is to have two boards, one for each Megapoint board, rather than one large board.

The main reason for this is that one board worked out just too large. The two boards will each be around 10-12inches by 10 inches.

I have also given up the idea of edge clips as the input and output wires to most of the boards are not suitable for this, being positioned all round the boards.

Another factor I had not initially taken into account is the discovery from an exchange of e mails with Stephen Freeman that the DCC interface boards require a 12/15 volt supply.  This means that I need to be careful in the layout of the control board to ensure there is no danger of the DC and AC low voltage supplies being confused.

Two  boards should also minimise the potential problem with interference to the Servo cables mentioned in my last post.

 

So I am not yet in a position to share a sketch of the boards, but this may get done this coming week.

 

On the "proper" modelling front, an annoying snag I am wrestling with, is that a Hornby Class 121 bubble car that I bought on the Bay because it was in NSE livery with an Oxford destination display, lost one exhaust stack in transit. Replacing it seems to come down to the best part of a tenner in cost and postage from Peter's Spares, or fashioning something out of wire, if I can find some that is thick enough! 

 

I hope everyone is making progress in their modelling, 

Best regards

Paul 

[Tallpaul69]

News extra - Breaking News!

I am pleased to relate some news from Leighton Buzzard Narrow Gauge Railway:-

 

Firstly, the NGR will start the 2022 Season on 13th March. This will witness the first passenger carrying trains through the new Tunnel (Bridge?) through the new eastern ring road.

 

 

Secondly on 30th April the extension beyond Stonehenge Works to Munday's Hill will open.

This will not initially be a station, trains will arrive from Pages Park via Stonehenge and reverse. There will be a run round facility at Munday's Hill, and after a 5 minutes break for this manoeuvre trains will return to Stonehenge. At Stonehenge the trains will halt for 25 minutes then return directly to Pages Park. 

Because the only passing loops are at Leedon and Stonehenge, near to the ends of the line, the two train timetable will run at 70 minute intervals rather than the current 60 minutes interval.  While the line has sufficient engines to run a three train timetable, currently, I think lack of carriages prevents this.

Never mind, the future looks good for the line!

 

Cheers All,

Paul 

 

[5BarVT]

4 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

This means that I need to be careful in the layout of the control board to ensure there is no danger of the DC and AC low voltage supplies being confused.

Have you thought about different types of wire and /or connectors?

I use mains cable of various types but one common feature is white sheath = DCC and black sheath = DC.

Paul.

[Nick Gough]

2 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

News extra - Breaking News!

I am pleased to relate some news from Leighton Buzzard Narrow Gauge Railway:-

 

Firstly, the NGR will start the 2022 Season on 13th March. This will witness the first passenger carrying trains through the new Tunnel (Bridge?) through the new eastern ring road.

 

 

Secondly on 30th April the extension beyond Stonehenge Works to Munday's Hill will open.

This will not initially be a station, trains will arrive from Pages Park via Stonehenge and reverse. There will be a run round facility at Munday's Hill, and after a 5 minutes break for this manoeuvre trains will return to Stonehenge. At Stonehenge the trains will halt for 25 minutes then return directly to Pages Park. 

Because the only passing loops are at Leedon and Stonehenge, near to the ends of the line, the two train timetable will run at 70 minute intervals rather than the current 60 minutes interval.  While the line has sufficient engines to run a three train timetable, currently, I think lack of carriages prevents this.

Never mind, the future looks good for the line!

 

Cheers All,

Paul 

 

 

Did someone tell the design engineer that the tunnel was for a broad gauge railway?

[rob D2]

Neve been to that railway .

Looks interesting 

[Tallpaul69]

5 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Neve been to that railway .

Looks interesting 

If you look back through my thread you will find further pictures and comments on the line.

I am currently working out how to get to the new bridge, as the road that runs broadly parallel to the railway in that area is currently closed for some mile either side of the bridge!

[Tallpaul69]

12 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

Did someone tell the design engineer that the tunnel was for a broad gauge railway?

I'm hoping they were allowing for a double track in the future. The line needs more loops to run a more intense service!

[Tallpaul69]

13 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Have you thought about different types of wire and /or connectors?

I use mains cable of various types but one common feature is white sheath = DCC and black sheath = DC.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

Good idea!

There are a lot of leads that Stephen Freeman has connected to a number of the boards, all colour coded to a sensible scheme, but I am looking to put outer sheaths on a lot of them for neatness. 

More details on the wiring will follow when I get to putting up sketches of the control panels I am currently designing! 

[Tallpaul69]

21 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

On the "proper" modelling front, an annoying snag I am wrestling with, is that a Hornby Class 121 bubble car that I bought on the Bay because it was in NSE livery with an Oxford destination display, lost one exhaust stack in transit. Replacing it seems to come down to the best part of a tenner in cost and postage from Peter's Spares, or fashioning something out of wire, if I can find some that is thick enough! 

I am pleased to report that this problem has gone away as the chap I bought the bubble car from has found the missing exhaust stack in the box of another bubble car that he is getting ready to sell!

[Tallpaul69]

On 27/02/2022 at 14:00, Tallpaul69 said:

I am pleased to report that this problem has gone away as the chap I bought the bubble car from has found the missing exhaust stack in the box of another bubble car that he is getting ready to sell!

Unfortunately, this saga is not quite over as, curtesy of the Post Office, I am still waiting for the missing exhaust! I know it was put in a post box last Sunday, but has still to arrive!

I understand from talking to a postie who delivered a parcel to me Friday afternoon that the LB DO is decimated by illness and vehicle failures. This parcel was sent to me on a 48 hour service on Monday and arrived Friday! Said postie was fed up as he had been waiting around from late morning for a van and then was given one of the smallest of their vans to deliver 96 parcels.

 

Meanwhile for a variety of reasons modelling has not progressed in the last week or so.

Even design work on the signal control panel has been slow. One problem has been working out how to attach a number of small one relay sub panels to the main panel. larger sub panels have holes in the corners, but the small ones are around one inch by half an inch in surface with no provision for or space for attachment holes. I an currently testing and sourcing a number of "clips" to hold them. Small bulldog clips seemed ideal, but the smallest ones are metal and while they are painted I am concerned about shorting out of the circuit board strips on the underside of the board.

 

More on this and other aspects of the control board, in my next post, including some long promised photos!

 

Take care all, and enjoy your modelling!

Events in eastern Europe, make me more appreciative of my hobbies, and also make me realise that I should not get too concerned about any lack of progress in some aspects.

After all, How fortunate I am to be able to follow hobbies and not need to be concerned about the security of the country, where the next meal is coming from, or dodging bombs and bullets! 

I also hope you are all supporting efforts in your areas to provide help to the Ukrainians? 

[rob D2]

I think we should all be concerned about our security with the Russians about !

What they really need is fighters to keep air superiority - if the Russians achive that then they are well and truly……

 

Good night and sweet dreams !

[Tallpaul69]

20 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

One problem has been working out how to attach a number of small one relay sub panels to the main panel. larger sub panels have holes in the corners, but the small ones are around one inch by half an inch in surface with no provision for or space for attachment holes. I an currently testing and sourcing a number of "clips" to hold them. Small bulldog clips seemed ideal, but the smallest ones are metal and while they are painted I am concerned about shorting out of the circuit board strips on the underside of the board.

In explanation of the above statement in my last posting, I offer the attached photos:-

 

This first one shows (I hope!) what I am trying to achieve. I have used a piece of plain card in substitution for the MDF or ply that the control panel will be made of. 

 

 

The upper, yellow bulldog clip is clipped to one of my small relay boards and is fine, I can attach it to the board with an arrangement of washers on a screw through the lower metal loop. However these clips are made of metal, and while the blades are painted, I worry that this might not be good enough in the long term to prevent shorting of the circuits on the reverse of the relay board through pressure of the clip on the solder joints wearing away the clip's paint.

The lower pink bulldog clip is good as its blades are plastic, but the arms have no way of fixing to the main board unless I can make a hole through the arm.

 

The second photo shows the underside of a relay board and i hope you can see that the runs of circuit are close together and that the mounds of solder on the joints are relatively large.

 

 

I have sourced some clips on the internet which are plastic, have a hole in the arm, and are narrower than the pink plastic example in my photo 1 above, but they are relatively expensive at c85 pence each.

 

I think my way forward is:-

1) attempt to glue card to one blade of a yellow clip to insulate the blade from the circuits on the underside of the relay board.

2) try drilling a hole through one of arms of a pink type clip, to attach it to the main board.

If none of these are satisfactory, then:-

3) Cough up a tenner for a bag of 10 of the internet clips. 

I really need 14 of them but 4 are for some larger boards that have 2 or 3 relays on them, but no fixing holes. I will have to see if i can make the yellow or pink clips suitable for them where the spacing of the circuit joints is wider.

 

Any suggestions welcome!

Cheers

Paul