Lima Loco running issues

[MullionPeter]

I picked up a LIMA GWR 2-6-2T loco in auction.  I have cleaned up the motor and everything.  When I hook up power directly to the motor contacts it runs very smoothly.  Also when I put the cover back on and apply power directly to any two pick up wheels it also runs very smoothly at any speed.  However, when I turn it over and place on the track either with or without the cab, it will run intermittently (brand new piece of streamline test track).  It will run and then stop, a little jiggle will normally start it again.  When I lift of the back or front wheels it will also run okay.  to ensure no short between the lines I also placed insulating tape around the weight that could have potentially caused a short.  No joy it will still loose power intermittently.  Any help and suggestions will be most gratefully received. 

[Butler Henderson]

Could be the pony trucks downward too much causing the drivers to lift off the rails

[The Johnster]

Bin it and buy a Bachmann.  

 

Or, if you want to get your Lima running...

 

You've established that there is nothing terminally wrong with it, as the motor reacts properly when current is applied to any two pickup wheels, but the loco will not run reliably on the track.  Step 1; do the  current to motor terminals thing again and closely observe the wheels and motion as they revolve/reciprocate.  Do the wheels run true and centred?  Does the motion click or make noise indicating it is rubbing on something somewhere?  Does the thing work better in one direction than the other?  If the answers to these questions are yes, no, and no, in that order, go and have a cuppa because you have eliminated several possible problems and are well on the eliminatory process route to happiness.  

 

Having had your tea. have a good look at the tyre surface and the inside surface behind the flanges of the wheels.  This is where current is transferred from the railhead to the wheel, and where the wheel transfers current to the brass pickups, and it is conducive to good running that these surfaces are kept meticulously clean.  Unfortunately, Lima chose a sort of steel/brass alloy for this that, while conducting electricity well enough, is extremely prone to picking up dirt, and dirt is your enemy, to be eliminated without mercy no prisoners taken.  Then, with these areas cleaned, have a look at the part of the pickup that the back of the wheel bears on and check that that is clean as well.  If a pickup is not bearing on the back of the wheel throughout the axle's range of side play, adjust it so that it is, but do not allow it to bear too firmly as it will act as a brake; this is a balancing act.

 

It's probably time for another cup of tea by now, and you have earned it.  I use a rattlecan spray switch cleaner bought at my local indoor market's electronic stall for this sort of work, and clean the crud off with a cotton bud, but don't leave any bud hairs behind.  Check that the pony springs are not lifting the loco as Butler Henderson suggests, and, so long as your wheels run true and concentric, and that the spur gears are all in good condition and in line, she'll run sweetly enough!  That said, many Lima locos were far too lightweight, not having the benefit of a solid metal chassis block, and further improvement in running can be achieved with the addition of as much weight as you can squeeze into any space in the body moulding above the driving wheels.  I can't off hand recall whether this loco had traction tyres as it's many years since I owned one, but I hate these things, Satan's Snot, and recommend you get rid of them as soon as possible.  They upset running, interfere with pick up, and look horrible, and that's before they stretch and wear.

 

Now your 4575 is running properly, you've earned a beer so go up the pub and have one!

 

LImas are overgeared and top speed is unfeasibly high in scale terms, but clean and in good condition, and driven carefully, they can put in a tolerable low speed performance, start and stop smoothly, and run well.  They are bombproof reliable!  Your track has to be clean, level, and smoothly laid as well of course.  I have a 116 dmu which is mechanically a Lima 117, over 40 years old and still on it's original carbon brushes, that gets an occasional outing on my layout as an excursion.  It requires meticulous cleaning as detailed above every time I get it out of it's box, but runs very sweetly so long as you are gentle with the control knob.

 

But I return to my original comment about Bachmanns.  They are a lot pricier, even second hand, but there's a good reason for that; they are superior in every respect.  The Lima's only application IMHO in this day and age is for a child's layout where robustness is a prime requirement, and you'll soon find that the cleaning routine is required continually, and becomes onerous.  Solid backed wheels, no brake or other below running plate detail, horrible moulded lamps on the bunker, mushroomblobby buffers, no cab detail, oversize couplings, moulded handrails, are all features you won't find on the Bachmann, which will run as near perfect as anyone has a right to expect from volume RTR, only require an occasional cleaning session, and run almost silently.  

[MullionPeter]

Thanks to both, I have some work to do and some good pointers to go and try.  As a note I do also have a Bachmann 45xx and plan to add another, the most that would ever run on the line I am modelling is 3, so Lima will spend most of its time sitting in the engine shed, but its a challenge to try and get it running as well as possible for the odd shunting outing.  I have the same problem when I run it without the pony trucks, so at least one item ruled out :-)

[GWR-fan]

Unable to diagnose your particular issue but on my two examples, the first one I fitted pickups to both pony trucks and the second loco I fitted a CD drive motor.  Both respond very well to the controller.   I did have one issue whereby a loco had not been used in a long time and only after a stuttering run for several minutes did it begin to run properly.  The shiny wheel tread seems to develop an insulating "oxide" barrier which needs to be removed.

[Il Grifone]

The main fault with the body (apart from those lamps!) is that it sits about 2mm too high (to clear the motor!). A strip removed from above the flange about the running plate and then reattached makes all the difference. A chunk needs removing from the thick plastic that secures the motor to allow it to fit into the lowered firebox. There was a whole article on how to do this in the model press (and convert to a 4500) but I can't remember where.

[The Johnster]

That's sort of almost considering doing given the price of these on 'Bay compared to Baccy's version.  Not quite, though!

[Steamport Southport]

6 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The main fault with the body (apart from those lamps!) is that it sits about 2mm too high (to clear the motor!). A strip removed from above the flange about the running plate and then reattached makes all the difference. A chunk needs removing from the thick plastic that secures the motor to allow it to fit into the lowered firebox. There was a whole article on how to do this in the model press (and convert to a 4500) but I can't remember where.

 

Two articles I remember. One was possibly in Scale Trains (I think it also showed you how to convert it to EM) and the other in Railway Modeller.

 

The Railway Modeller article is in this one.

 

http://magazineexchange.co.uk/cw/railway-modeller-magazine-october-1983-issue.html

 

 

Jason

[legin]

A bit late in the day for this reply, but I have recently discovered a whole host of problems with my Lima Crab which I bought in 1987 or thereabouts and which has done to date only about 9 months running.  I have received enormous help from members on the forum to get the loco going properly and it's under this part of the forum entitled "tender pickup" if that's any use. The main problem was that although the motor ran well when power was applied directly to it, and it ran when power was applied to the front tender pickup wheels, it was not moving or not moving well when power was applied to the other set of tender wheels. I had cleaned the wheel front and back with isopropyl, so it was clean-or so I thought.  But I had to remove the rear axle wheels and sand them with 180 grit paper to properly get rid of oxidisation which had built up and which the isopropyl would not touch. Now it works.  I did the same with the wiper tip. So if the loco has not had any use for some time, it seems clear that these brass amalgam wheels are prone to this. I also eased out the B2Bs slightly so that the wheel rim outer face would contact the rail better, though this did lead to some binding on the curves.