Dongits Model Railway -- Three layers around the Study

[Bloodnok]

First thing this morning: Fix this track (there was a kink in it).

 

 

The outer one isn't particularly smooth where that converter track is either, but I know if I pull that up, it's going to fall apart, and I haven't got another one. I've pushed some coaches over it, and it appears fine at the moment. I may revisit this later with a new converter track.

 

 

There's now two tracks on the north side:

 

 

And five of eight track sections are on the bridge:

 

 

... Still not glued. Not sure which glue would be best here, thinking CA is probably the best bet (plastic chair to wood baulk). CA glue is something to do carefully, once, and not mess up. I'll sit down to that when I'm not going to be fielding quite so many interruptions as today.

[Dagworth]

9 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:

Still not glued. Not sure which glue would be best here, thinking CA is probably the best bet (plastic chair to wood baulk)

When I've done stuff like this I've used MEK, seems solid to me and cleaner than CA.

 

Andi

[Bloodnok]

5 hours ago, Dagworth said:

When I've done stuff like this I've used MEK, seems solid to me and cleaner than CA.

 

Is that Methyl Ethyl Keytone (also known as Butanone), or Slaters Mek-Pak (which doesn't actually contain any Methyl Ethyl Keytone, but instead uses something else)?

[Dagworth]

13 minutes ago, Bloodnok said:

 

Is that Methyl Ethyl Keytone (also known as Butanone), or Slaters Mek-Pak (which doesn't actually contain any Methyl Ethyl Keytone, but instead uses something else)?

actual MEK bought from eBay.

 

Andi

[Bloodnok]

Two approach tracks glued, two gluing:

 

All lines across the bridge:
 

Thanks for the recommendation for MEK Andy, I've now ordered some. It might take a while to get here though.
 

Four tracks on the north side now too:

 

 

Next up, catching the wiring up with the new track.

[Bloodnok]

The MEK has unexpectedly arrived much earlier than scheduled, so naturally I'm trying it out today.

Learning how to apply it isn't going anything like I thought it would. I've read many descriptions of using this across the web, which all go something like:

* Position chair on sleeper at appropriate place using track gauge tool.
* Apply Butanone/MEK to edge of chair with fine brush, which will wick underneath the chair.
* Apply gentle pressure for a few seconds to fix chair in place.
* Move on to next chair.

I've got Pandrol baseplates rather than chairs, because this is flat-bottom not bullhead. And the sleeper strip is 90 degrees out from expectation because I'm laying baulks. But that shouldn't change things too much ... right?

I made sure to rough up the surface of the baulks with sandpaper before laying the track so they wouldn't be too smooth.

Nevertheless, this is not even trying to hold. I did a batch of about 12 (six on either rail), left it for 15 minutes with a heavy weight pressing it down, and when I lifted the weight off, the baseplates just slid around. Not even a hint of wanting to stay put, let alone being stuck well enough to hold the rail in place.

I've also tried lifting the rail and brushing directly onto the bottom of the baseplate before putting it down. Same thing.

What am I doing wrong?

[5BarVT]

Is it the wrong type of plastic?

My simplistic test would be:

Wet baseplate as before, press finger on it.  If you get a fingerprint in softened plastic it’s doing its job and should work. If it stays smooth with no imprint it’s not dissolving the plastic and so won’t ever work.

Paul.

[Dagworth]

1 hour ago, Bloodnok said:

I made sure to rough up the surface of the baulks with sandpaper before laying the track so they wouldn't be too smooth.

You may find that it's the baulks wicking the MEK away too quickly for it to have any effect on the pandrol baseplates, try using more solvent?

 

Andi

[ISW]

23 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

You may find that it's the baulks wicking the MEK away too quickly for it to have any effect on the pandrol baseplates, try using more solvent?

 

Andi

Or 'painting' the baulks with MEK initially and allowing that to dry before attempting to glue the plastic baseplates down, again with MEK.

 

Ian

[Bloodnok]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Is it the wrong type of plastic?

My simplistic test would be:

Wet baseplate as before, press finger on it.  If you get a fingerprint in softened plastic it’s doing its job and should work. If it stays smooth with no imprint it’s not dissolving the plastic and so won’t ever work.

Does not stay smooth. Wouldn't call what's on the underside a clear fingerprint, but it's a 5mm by 3mm piece of plastic with a 2mm square hole in the middle, kinda difficult to draw much conclusion of exactly what's on it. Definitely not smooth any more though and certainly felt tacky.

[Bloodnok]

1 hour ago, Dagworth said:

You may find that it's the baulks wicking the MEK away too quickly for it to have any effect on the pandrol baseplates, try using more solvent?

 

1 hour ago, ISW said:

Or 'painting' the baulks with MEK initially and allowing that to dry before attempting to glue the plastic baseplates down, again with MEK.

Tried this --  I painted a short section with MEK, then applied at least four times as much as I was using previously to each baseplate, going all the way round. That section is now clamped between a couple of bits of wood.

I'll give it 10 to 15 minutes and see if anything has stuck.

[ISW]

1 hour ago, Bloodnok said:

 

Tried this --  I painted a short section with MEK, then applied at least four times as much as I was using previously to each baseplate, going all the way round. That section is now clamped between a couple of bits of wood.

I'll give it 10 to 15 minutes and see if anything has stuck.

 

If that fails, I suggest you try Anita's 'Tacky PVA Glue', which seems to be readily available (I get mine from Boyes Department Store).

 

I used it to successfully attach styrene strips to plywood, which is 'similar' to what you are doing. The joint was taped (masking tape) to keep it in contact while the glue dried.

 

Ian

[Bloodnok]

2 hours ago, Bloodnok said:

Tried this --  I painted a short section with MEK, then applied at least four times as much as I was using previously to each baseplate, going all the way round. That section is now clamped between a couple of bits of wood.

I'll give it 10 to 15 minutes and see if anything has stuck.

 

That ... worked. Not sure if the key was using about six times as much MEK as I did previously, using a clamp rather than a weight, the length of time it was on, or possibly the speed of getting the clamp on (I wasn't paying attention to positional accuracy this time, just seeing if they would stick). But it does appear to be working.

[Bloodnok]

That was ... a challenge. Four days on and off going over and back over many of the same chairs with MEK did eventually get them all to stick. I did lose a few in the process, but 99% of them are still there and still holding the rail in place.

This is the state of play when the day job started back up again:

 

 

 

Track is cut, bridge lifts out again. I need to finish two bits of remedial work, and then I can continue with wiring and tracklaying. The line following the trackbed in the top right of the third picture will be the next bit to go in. The plan is to have this up to where the first visible junction goes in soon™.

Then I have to figure out how to join flat bottom rail to bullhead rail, and mount my first visible points...

Edited January 12, 2023 by Bloodnok
One picture failed to upload for some reason? Fixed now...

[Bloodnok]

I had some coaches out today, sorting couplers out and planning rakes.

 

(Ignore the station building in the back - that's been put there temporarily until I can get it to the layout it's actually intended for).

 

 

The front four of these rakes are fully close coupled now. I was hoping to do a full conversion to Keen Systems replacement resin drawbars and Roco couplings, but I'm disappointed that the pocket on the Keen Systems resin drawbars ... isn't a pocket at all, because it doesn't have a bottom. The couplings keep dropping out unless I bite the bullet and glue them in. So I've mostly stuck with the factory pocket and the Bachmann fixed bar pipe coupler, only using the Keen Systems stuff where it was necessary (generally to jump between vehicles with different pocket heights).

[5BarVT]

2 hours ago, Bloodnok said:

 the pocket on the Keen Systems resin drawbars ... isn't a pocket at all, because it doesn't have a bottom. The couplings keep dropping out unless I bite the bullet and glue them in. So I've mostly stuck with the factory pocket and the Bachmann fixed bar pipe coupler, only using the Keen Systems stuff where it was necessary (generally to jump between vehicles with different pocket heights).

 

I have a droppy outie too!  I’m planning to glue a plasticard bottom on.  Intention is a flat bottom with stepped top to locate it in the Keen drawbar.  Haven’t worked out how high the step needs to be to prevent droopy couplings, or what glue/solvent works with resin and plasticard so I haven’t got very far yet.

Paul.

[Bloodnok]

BTW, is there a known source of the tiny springs that Bachmann used in Mk1 coaches? I ... need a few spares. Some of the coaches I purchased second hand don't have them.

[Bloodnok]

I made a video about the construction of the bridge:
 

[Bloodnok]

Tracklaying continues:

 

 

 

This brings the curves around the corner to where the double junction crossover will be. It also marks the full extent of the four blocks across the bridge, enabling them to be properly wired.

[Bloodnok]

I hit a slight snag when wiring up the bridge: I didn't have enough electronics in stock. I have enough ABC generators, but I'd run out of train detectors.

 

If I'm making more, why not a) fix some niggling problems with them and b) explore something new I've not done before. These are partially surface mount, ordered with the surface mount components pre-assembled from PCBWay.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Bloodnok

[Bloodnok]

It lives!



Well, mostly. The ABC braking control and block detection boards are in and the power is fed correctly, but there's nothing controlling them yet. Those boards still need to be made.

(And yes, that APT does now have the dummy NDM motorised, and with two motors it drives up my gradients -- something it was completely incapable of doing with a single motor).

Edited March 6, 2023 by Bloodnok

[Bloodnok]

The bridge is now wired. The per-track train detection and ABC braking continues across it, plus the wiring is done so that the approach side tracks go dead if it's not fully installed. I've also tested the bridge for pantograph clearance:
 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Bloodnok

[Jim76]

Amazing layout. The latest video blows my mind. What is the tightest radius? Jim 

[Bloodnok]

1 hour ago, Jim76 said:

Amazing layout. The latest video blows my mind. What is the tightest radius? Jim 

There are three places with a tight radius -- both ends of the storage yard and the place where the tracks appear onto the visible section near the filing cabinet. The inside curve of all of these is 438mm (radius 2). I've arranged the tightest gradient to always be on the downhill side when there is a gradient on the curve to help with running.

On the visible area, the tightest curves are around 650mm -- the curve where the APT is sitting in the video thumbnail is around that radius.

[ITG]

Remind me - is the lift our bridge on the level, or so there a gradient over it? If the latter, did that represent any particular challenge in getting trouble-free running over the track joins?

Ian