Stanier Coach Rakes in the early 1950s

[Blobrick]

Gents I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction please?

 

I am researching coach formations of traffic around the Bradford/ Leeds area, with a view to formulating sets to work via the S&C to a fictional terminus at Kendal (Yes the late David Jenkinson, has a lot to answer for!)

As my period is early 1950s say 52-54, I am assuming that the newer BR Mk1 stock is initially being used to up grade main line stock on the major routes, leaving the indigenous rolling stock to cover the more local workings. I am attempting to find a common formation for 4-5 coach rake using LMS Stanier stock. I am assuming that this rake would not be made up of just Stainer period 3 or just Port Hole stock, but more likely made up of a mixture of them both. 

 

I suspect that these rakes would be mainly 3rd class with possibly a composite to cover any 1st class elements. Now AFAIK Hornby have only produced 1st and 3rd class Stainer coaches so far, alas no composite. However Bachmann has produced a later Stanier Port Hole stock Composite & Brake Fist Corridor. Would it be correct to pop one of these Port Hole composites/Brakes in a rake of earlier Staniers to give say a BTK + TK + CK + BTK  or  BTK + TK + TK + BFK  formation?

 

Or would it be more likely to find the same rake made up of mainly Port Hole stock with a single earlier Stainer coach?

 

At what point would it be worth adding a FK to a rake, suspect these would be far larger formations?

 

I suspect that these sets would never be solely period 3 or Port Hole stock in their entirety, but happy to be corrected! 

 

Many thanks in advance for any guidance

 

Bob C

Edited April 18, 2020 by Blobrick

[Wheatley]

Your BTK/TK/CK/BTK consist, with maybe an extra TK as strengthener is prototypical, but study of photos a little north of you suggests fewer portholes at that date and more earlier P3 and even P2 coaches. The portholes were still new in 1952 and were Class A stock intended for main line expresses. The LMR/LMS policy of rostering carriages by numbers of seats rather than by specific types meant that they didn't always stay on them of course. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Looking at S&C photos from that era, a three coach set (BTK,CK,BTK) might well be enough, with strengtheners as required.

 

Understandable that Hornby went for the simple solution of only making 57' stock but regrettable as the LMS did a lot of composites.

[Blobrick]

2 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Your BTK/TK/CK/BTK consist, with maybe an extra TK as strengthener is prototypical, but study of photos a little north of you suggests fewer portholes at that date and more earlier P3 and even P2 coaches. The portholes were still new in 1952 and were Class A stock intended for main line expresses. The LMR/LMS policy of rostering carriages by numbers of seats rather than by specific types meant that they didn't always stay on them of course. 

 

 

Many thanks, l take your point re Port Hole stock. I see Mainline produced an LMS composite coach which l suspect is a period 1 vehicle due to the raised panelling etc (Mainline  Cat No 37-111)

Whilst basic by today's standard l wonder if this would be a better option?

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Replica or Bachmann versions are better, separate roof vents and gangway connections. I have used those for a cut'n'shut TK and am just finishng  off a BCK. 

[Wheatley]

It's a possibility but a porthole isnt unheard of. Derek Cross's first ever railway photo, taken in 1949 is a Compound on a Port  Road stopping service formed BTK/CK/BTK - the leading BTK is a porthole and the others period 3. Less likely, but not impossible. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

The obvious solution is to go for the Airfix/Dapol option as they did do a 60' composite. I don't like the glazing units on these but otherwise they are OK for me.

[Philou]

I too was going to give the Dapol ones a mention. I have no idea of how accurate they are as I was just after a complete rake of blood'n'custards. The only thing that I found that let them down was that they were provided with plastic wheels rather than metal - that reminds me - something else on my todo list for the lockdown as I already have the replacement wheels .

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[Steamport Southport]

SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well.

 

As for formations have you looked at the Comet site? Look at the PDFs of the instructions.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

 

 

Worth getting a copy of this if you can find a reasonably priced copy. I paid about a tenner for mine.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passenger-Train-Formations-1923-1983-LMS-LM/dp/0711016062

 

 

 

Jason

[Blobrick]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well.

 

As for formations have you looked at the Comet site? Look at the PDFs of the instructions.

 

http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/

 

 

Worth getting a copy of this if you can find a reasonably priced copy. I paid about a tenner for mine.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passenger-Train-Formations-1923-1983-LMS-LM/dp/0711016062

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Thanks Jason, will do

[Blobrick]

1 hour ago, Wheatley said:

It's a possibility but a porthole isnt unheard of. Derek Cross's first ever railway photo, taken in 1949 is a Compound on a Port  Road stopping service formed BTK/CK/BTK - the leading BTK is a porthole and the others period 3. Less likely, but not impossible. 

 

That's interesting, as the Port Hole coach would only be about 2 years old at that point., and yet is working on a secondary main line. With my time scale set around 6 years later there's a better chance of one turning up in a mixed rake.

[Blobrick]

2 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

 

That's interesting, as the Port Hole coach would only be about 2 years old at that point., and yet is working on a secondary main line. With my time scale set around 5 years later there's a better chance of one turning up in a mixed rake.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

The obvious solution is to go for the Airfix/Dapol option as they did do a 60' composite. I don't like the glazing units on these but otherwise they are OK for me.

I had a Dapol CK kit in my donor box so I painted it blood and custard, did the inside edges of the windows black,  flush glazed and fitted metal wheels. Fine for use as a layout coach.

[Prometheus]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well.

Jason

 

May I add that a brush with Klear [yes, that again....] does wonders for Finecast's flush glazing's appearance when fitted. 

 

Tony

[Aire Head]

When I asked about this previously I recall that between Leeds and Bradford was often TK BTK CK with strengtheners attached. TOs were quite often used aswell.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Checked yesterday and there are a number of Airfix CKs available on eBay and also the Mainline panelled coaches (early Period 2?).

Edited April 19, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[Blobrick]

12 hours ago, Aire Head said:

When I asked about this previously I recall that between Leeds and Bradford was often TK BTK CK with strengtheners attached. TOs were quite often used aswell.

 

 

Thank you, much appreciated

[Blobrick]

12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Checked yesterday and there are a number of Airfix CKs available on eBay and also the Mainline panelled coaches (early Period 2?).

 

 

Hi there, l ve been keeping my eye out for a Bachmann version as l believe they had metal wheels as opposed to the plastic of the earlier version

[Aire Head]

15 hours ago, Blobrick said:

 

 

Hi there, l ve been keeping my eye out for a Bachmann version as l believe they had metal wheels as opposed to the plastic of the earlier version

 

I haven't been able to find Bachmann ones in blood and custard (doesn't mean they don't exist) you are able to swap the wheelers over pretty easily though.

[Blobrick]

I d like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread as the information people have kindly given  has proved most useful.

 

Bob C