RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) Gents I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction please? I am researching coach formations of traffic around the Bradford/ Leeds area, with a view to formulating sets to work via the S&C to a fictional terminus at Kendal (Yes the late David Jenkinson, has a lot to answer for!) As my period is early 1950s say 52-54, I am assuming that the newer BR Mk1 stock is initially being used to up grade main line stock on the major routes, leaving the indigenous rolling stock to cover the more local workings. I am attempting to find a common formation for 4-5 coach rake using LMS Stanier stock. I am assuming that this rake would not be made up of just Stainer period 3 or just Port Hole stock, but more likely made up of a mixture of them both. I suspect that these rakes would be mainly 3rd class with possibly a composite to cover any 1st class elements. Now AFAIK Hornby have only produced 1st and 3rd class Stainer coaches so far, alas no composite. However Bachmann has produced a later Stanier Port Hole stock Composite & Brake Fist Corridor. Would it be correct to pop one of these Port Hole composites/Brakes in a rake of earlier Staniers to give say a BTK + TK + CK + BTK or BTK + TK + TK + BFK formation? Or would it be more likely to find the same rake made up of mainly Port Hole stock with a single earlier Stainer coach? At what point would it be worth adding a FK to a rake, suspect these would be far larger formations? I suspect that these sets would never be solely period 3 or Port Hole stock in their entirety, but happy to be corrected! Many thanks in advance for any guidance Bob C Edited April 18, 2020 by Blobrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Your BTK/TK/CK/BTK consist, with maybe an extra TK as strengthener is prototypical, but study of photos a little north of you suggests fewer portholes at that date and more earlier P3 and even P2 coaches. The portholes were still new in 1952 and were Class A stock intended for main line expresses. The LMR/LMS policy of rostering carriages by numbers of seats rather than by specific types meant that they didn't always stay on them of course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 Looking at S&C photos from that era, a three coach set (BTK,CK,BTK) might well be enough, with strengtheners as required. Understandable that Hornby went for the simple solution of only making 57' stock but regrettable as the LMS did a lot of composites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Wheatley said: Your BTK/TK/CK/BTK consist, with maybe an extra TK as strengthener is prototypical, but study of photos a little north of you suggests fewer portholes at that date and more earlier P3 and even P2 coaches. The portholes were still new in 1952 and were Class A stock intended for main line expresses. The LMR/LMS policy of rostering carriages by numbers of seats rather than by specific types meant that they didn't always stay on them of course. Many thanks, l take your point re Port Hole stock. I see Mainline produced an LMS composite coach which l suspect is a period 1 vehicle due to the raised panelling etc (Mainline Cat No 37-111) Whilst basic by today's standard l wonder if this would be a better option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 The Replica or Bachmann versions are better, separate roof vents and gangway connections. I have used those for a cut'n'shut TK and am just finishng off a BCK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 It's a possibility but a porthole isnt unheard of. Derek Cross's first ever railway photo, taken in 1949 is a Compound on a Port Road stopping service formed BTK/CK/BTK - the leading BTK is a porthole and the others period 3. Less likely, but not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 The obvious solution is to go for the Airfix/Dapol option as they did do a 60' composite. I don't like the glazing units on these but otherwise they are OK for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 I too was going to give the Dapol ones a mention. I have no idea of how accurate they are as I was just after a complete rake of blood'n'custards. The only thing that I found that let them down was that they were provided with plastic wheels rather than metal - that reminds me - something else on my todo list for the lockdown as I already have the replacement wheels . Cheers, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well. As for formations have you looked at the Comet site? Look at the PDFs of the instructions. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/ Worth getting a copy of this if you can find a reasonably priced copy. I paid about a tenner for mine. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passenger-Train-Formations-1923-1983-LMS-LM/dp/0711016062 Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said: SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well. As for formations have you looked at the Comet site? Look at the PDFs of the instructions. http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/ Worth getting a copy of this if you can find a reasonably priced copy. I paid about a tenner for mine. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passenger-Train-Formations-1923-1983-LMS-LM/dp/0711016062 Jason Thanks Jason, will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Wheatley said: It's a possibility but a porthole isnt unheard of. Derek Cross's first ever railway photo, taken in 1949 is a Compound on a Port Road stopping service formed BTK/CK/BTK - the leading BTK is a porthole and the others period 3. Less likely, but not impossible. That's interesting, as the Port Hole coach would only be about 2 years old at that point., and yet is working on a secondary main line. With my time scale set around 6 years later there's a better chance of one turning up in a mixed rake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 18, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Blobrick said: That's interesting, as the Port Hole coach would only be about 2 years old at that point., and yet is working on a secondary main line. With my time scale set around 5 years later there's a better chance of one turning up in a mixed rake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 18, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: The obvious solution is to go for the Airfix/Dapol option as they did do a 60' composite. I don't like the glazing units on these but otherwise they are OK for me. I had a Dapol CK kit in my donor box so I painted it blood and custard, did the inside edges of the windows black, flush glazed and fitted metal wheels. Fine for use as a layout coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: SE Finecast do replacement windows for the Airfix, etc. coaches. They scrub up pretty well. Jason May I add that a brush with Klear [yes, that again....] does wonders for Finecast's flush glazing's appearance when fitted. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 When I asked about this previously I recall that between Leeds and Bradford was often TK BTK CK with strengtheners attached. TOs were quite often used aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted April 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) Checked yesterday and there are a number of Airfix CKs available on eBay and also the Mainline panelled coaches (early Period 2?). Edited April 19, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Aire Head said: When I asked about this previously I recall that between Leeds and Bradford was often TK BTK CK with strengtheners attached. TOs were quite often used aswell. Thank you, much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 19, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Checked yesterday and there are a number of Airfix CKs available on eBay and also the Mainline panelled coaches (early Period 2?). Hi there, l ve been keeping my eye out for a Bachmann version as l believe they had metal wheels as opposed to the plastic of the earlier version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Blobrick said: Hi there, l ve been keeping my eye out for a Bachmann version as l believe they had metal wheels as opposed to the plastic of the earlier version I haven't been able to find Bachmann ones in blood and custard (doesn't mean they don't exist) you are able to swap the wheelers over pretty easily though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 21, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2020 I d like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread as the information people have kindly given has proved most useful. Bob C 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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