Scratchbuilding modern diesel locos

[Andrew G]

Hello

 

I've signed up in the hope that someone can point me towards some "how to" resources on scratchbuilding diesel (or electric) locos; photos of someone's else approach,  online videos, even dead tree books etc.

 

Everything I can find online seems to be about steam locos which have rather different shapes, or kitbashing using hard (and/or expensive) to obtain kits from niche producers.  

 

How do people make full-width diesel loco bodyshells: self-supporting thick plasticard; structural frameworks with thin skins over the gaps; ship-style with a covering over a skeleton-style frame; layers, solid boxes with shaped panels applied; built up from individual panels? What is the best approach to curves, such as front ends; I've tried shaping filler, I've tried filing down stepped layers, I've tried bending sheets of plastic over warm water, with varying degrees of success.

My interests are modern locos in the 1520mm gauge region (=former USSR and neighbours), where commercial products seem to be unaffordable museum quality, obscure resin products or cardboard kits.  I'm working in HO and use RTR chassis, as this makes life simpler and, ensures it will run, while I can live with the incorrect gauge.  

Thanks for any pointers!

[Fat Controller]

Have a search for 'Clive Mortimer', who's probably built more scratchbuilt diesel and electric stock, both locos and MUs, than the rest of us put together. I recollect he uses the method of multiple layers, filed to shape.

[Gibbo675]

19 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

Hello

 

I've signed up in the hope that someone can point me towards some "how to" resources on scratchbuilding diesel (or electric) locos; photos of someone's else approach,  online videos, even dead tree books etc.

 

Everything I can find online seems to be about steam locos which have rather different shapes, or kitbashing using hard (and/or expensive) to obtain kits from niche producers.  

 

How do people make full-width diesel loco bodyshells: self-supporting thick plasticard; structural frameworks with thin skins over the gaps; ship-style with a covering over a skeleton-style frame; layers, solid boxes with shaped panels applied; built up from individual panels? What is the best approach to curves, such as front ends; I've tried shaping filler, I've tried filing down stepped layers, I've tried bending sheets of plastic over warm water, with varying degrees of success.

My interests are modern locos in the 1520mm gauge region (=former USSR and neighbours), where commercial products seem to be unaffordable museum quality, obscure resin products or cardboard kits.  I'm working in HO and use RTR chassis, as this makes life simpler and, ensures it will run, while I can live with the incorrect gauge.  

Thanks for any pointers!

Hi Andy,

 

I have scratch built various models and found that .040" plasticard to be fine for most applications with regard body sides in 4mm so 3.5mm should be as near to as to make no difference especially as you are using the Russian loading gauge. I find that the lower edge is braced by the chassis either directly or by way of using packings or lamination and the upper edge is braced by the roof structure.

 

For curves around cab front to body sides I tend to use strips of thick plasticard perhaps .060" or .080" in the inside corners of an externally square box which once cured I file and sand to the rounded shape required. The longer you wait for curing the better the job as the joint dries out and is not as soft when filing to shape.

 

For roof profiles I have before now found a former of the correct radius to which I wrap two or three layers of .010" plasticard around with plastic cement applied between so that when removed from the former they retain their shape. The other method is to layer up strips of plasticard in a way that contour lines of a map shew hills and valleys. To do this the lower edge of the contour layer must be a slight larger than needed and then with a lot of filing and a bit of filler you will get there.

 

Laminates and boxes form strong structures. I find it best to put a horizontal section at the top of the body sides at cantrail / gutter lever under the roof although clearance holes may have to be cut into these sections to clear mechanisms. A flat lamination will not warp the body side in the way that ribs do, that said if a rib is required form a Tee section by fixing a lamination to between the rib and the body to spread the forces and reduce warping.

 

Window and apertures are some times best marked out with the corners drilled out so that they may be cut out fully and filled to shape after the box of the body is built up. This will assist the building of the body in that the sections will have more rigidity while assembling and also they will be more rigid when finally finishing the window aperture. This may also be useful in that if you finish window and grille apertures after assembly you make sure that everything squares up if there is any slight misalignment in construction.

 

For grilles you could either buy scrap body shells and cut out the grills perhaps using micro-strip to make the perimeter framing. Alternatively you could score plasticard with hacksaw blades of differing TPI's and cut the required pieces out.

 

Best thing would be to make some little test boxes to try out the above methods and concepts using bits of scrap. Something else that you could do is to trial planned shapes from old cereal boxes before scrapping all of your plasticard to make sure a conceptual form will work out.

 

All the tooling I use are Swann Morton 10 and 10A blades, a razor saw, a flat surface for assembly, a cutting mat, various files and grades of wet and dry paper, a scriber and a steel rule.

 

Below are examples of what I get up to.

 

Hack saw formed grilles with .010 frames fitted to the insides of the apertures in the same way the window frames were formed.

 

Bogie frames attached to Lima class 33 bogies.

 

Completed AL4 84 009.

 

Assembled box with window filled to full size.

 

Mostly finished body with laminated roof and chassis with boiler.

 

Completed LNER Class Y6.

 

Any questions just ask and as Bernard says Clive Mortimer builds good stuff and is also very helpful.

 

Gibbo.

[Andrew G]

Thanks very much - that's exactly what I've been looking for, and very helpful! Do you happen to have any photos from underneath showing the "inside" of the electric loco body?

 

I started with a TEM2 - an off-centre single cab shunting type loco  - and so far it has had about half a dozen long ends as I tried each approach I could think of, and a similar number of short ends, none of which quite match the long end.  One good thing about 1520-land is that it is often possible to find quite detailed scale drawings online,

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I say, Gibbo - that's a smashing AL4.  The most handsome of the sparklers, in my opinion.

[Gibbo675]

34 minutes ago, Andrew G said:

Thanks very much - that's exactly what I've been looking for, and very helpful! Do you happen to have any photos from underneath showing the "inside" of the electric loco body?

 

I started with a TEM2 - an off-centre single cab shunting type loco  - and so far it has had about half a dozen long ends as I tried each approach I could think of, and a similar number of short ends, none of which quite match the long end.  One good thing about 1520-land is that it is often possible to find quite detailed scale drawings online,

 

Hi Andy,

 

This is the only one I have at the moment, as you can see there is a backing strip across the joint where the body was reduced in length. I shall have a look at some of my models and see what else I could post for you.

 

Shewing the backing strip inside of the body and also that the roof is a newly fitted section with the original removed as it was of the wrong form. The structure of the bogie mounting brackets are also seen with the section running up inside the body for rigidity.

 

Do remember that the body is modified and not scratch built !

 

Gibbo.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Gibbo675
Improper grammar.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Andy,

 

I've just taken these two of 10000 and Kestrel that are somewhat stalled as projects as I've been doing all sorts of other stuff.

 

Kestrel form a Lima 47 with new cab fronts and extended cab domes of Milliput and a 10000 from a Mainline 45 with alterations to the top of the nose.

 

The cab fronts for Kestrel were made as modular sections grafted on, the plasticard was over bent to shape with hot water before gluing in the formers that hold the shape. Once cured they were filed and fitted into place.

 

The lower edge of 10000 was attached via a strip being glued to the inside if the body and the rebate that it formed filled with a fillet of plasticard and then covered over with Milliput which was then filed and sanded to shape. The nose ends were layered up with thick plasticard and then filed smooth with a reinforcement of Milliput underneath.

 

Radiators grilles were form Lima class 20, 37 and 40's variously cut, shaped and framed.

 

I used propriety body shells as they were near enough in general shape because it was easier than scratch building a new shell. If you look at various body shells you may find shapes that may be spliced and used for your own projects especially roof sections that may be filed smooth and then re-detailed accordingly. Class 47's would be good for this as they have very plain sides that you could let grilles or windows into as necessary.

 

Gibbo.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Gibbo675
Spelling

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I say, Gibbo - that's a smashing AL4.  The most handsome of the sparklers, in my opinion.

Hi Dr Fritters,

 

Look out for the Trix AL1 thread.

 

Gibbo.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Andrew

 

Here are a series of photos of how I built a Baby Deltic.

 

I used Hornby bogies for this model.  This is how I model it is not the only method.

 

I started with the chassis. I cut out all holes before removing the piece I am making from the main sheet.

 

The chassis is 40 thou (1mm) plastic card, as this model is going to have an integral chassis and body it is thick enough.

 

The sides are marked out, any holes cut, some people like to cut windows etc out once the body is made. Grilles are scored on.

I cut a false roof and a bulk head and glue these and the chassis to the sides, this photo shows teh realtionship between the bits before the second side is added.

 

False nose top and front are also glued on. With this model the doors are recessed so they needed fitting.

 

the next stage is to add laminates of 40 thou plastic card to get the the loco profile. To work out how wide each one should be I mark 1mm parallel lines on the end view from the point where the sides and the roof meet.

 

The edges are then filed off and the loco starts to take shape.

The windscreens are added and so is some filler to fill up any gaps.

 

That is them smoothed down. I don't have a photo of that stage, sorry. You may have noted the window corners are cut with a diagonal not rounded, when the model has been made to shape I then take a round needle file to the corners and file them round.

 

The detail on the bogie sides is filled off and new sides made, building up in layers.

 

Details are added, things like springs are easily made from screws.

 

They are glued to the sides of the commercial bogie.

 

using appropriate thickness plastic card the other details are added. For mesh grilles I use the silver paper from cigarette packets, that if you know a smoker these days.

[Andrew G]

Wow! Exactly the type of detail that I was looking for. The plasticard thickness is very helpful, and the way of doing the windows is one of those "obvious once it's explained" things. Thanks everyone. Now to start making some drawings.

[John Tomlinson]

23 hours ago, Andrew G said:

Thanks very much - that's exactly what I've been looking for, and very helpful! Do you happen to have any photos from underneath showing the "inside" of the electric loco body?

 

I started with a TEM2 - an off-centre single cab shunting type loco  - and so far it has had about half a dozen long ends as I tried each approach I could think of, and a similar number of short ends, none of which quite match the long end.  One good thing about 1520-land is that it is often possible to find quite detailed scale drawings online,

 

This is a fascinating project, and one that as Andrew says seems almost esssential given the lack of RTR coverage.

 

Just in case anyone was wondering, here's a couple of snaps of a TEM2 taken in Lugansk works in the eastern Ukraine, 5th May 2010;

 

 

[rodent279]

Fascinating stuff. @Gibbo675, @Clive Mortimore-do you work from 4mm scale drawings?

 

cheers N

[Phil Bullock]

On 27/04/2020 at 12:52, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I say, Gibbo - that's a smashing AL4.  The most handsome of the sparklers, in my opinion.

 

I am with the Doc @Gibbo675 that AL4 is the dogs whatits!

 

Did it still have NBL diamonds in the TOPS era? If let me know if you want some.....

[Gibbo675]

2 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Fascinating stuff. @Gibbo675, @Clive Mortimore-do you work from 4mm scale drawings?

 

cheers N

Hi Rodent / N,

 

I do work form 4mm scale drawings from various sources, I also use photographs for reference to individual projects and modifications that may not be shew on on the drawings.

 

I have both, British Rail Main Line Diesels and British Rail Main Line Electrics by Colin Marsden and Graham Fenn, I also have a pair of books from Ian Allen called BR Mainline Diesels in 4mm Scale and BR Electric Locomotives in 4mm Scale by RS Carter. These cover most things well enough any inaccuracies are likely less than my ability to build stuff !

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

13 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

I am with the Doc @Gibbo675 that AL4 is the dogs whatits!

 

Did it still have NBL diamonds in the TOPS era? If let me know if you want some.....

Cheers Phil,

 

I have some of Railtec's raised transfers that I shall apply if I bother to look if it carried them in 1973 ! Its a job for another day, DMU's are currently taking my fancy.

 

I decided that 1973 would be the year as that was the year my dad bought me my first Ian Allen Combined Volume.

 

Gibbo.

[rodent279]

59 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Rodent / N,

 

I do work form 4mm scale drawings from various sources, I also use photographs for reference to individual projects and modifications that may not be shew on on the drawings.

 

I have both, British Rail Main Line Diesels and British Rail Main Line Electrics by Colin Marsden and Graham Fenn, I also have a pair of books from Ian Allen called BR Mainline Diesels in 4mm Scale and BR Electric Locomotives in 4mm Scale by RS Carter. These cover most things well enough any inaccuracies are likely less than my ability to build stuff !

 

Gibbo.

Thanks. Think I've got Colin Marsden's book. I've always fancied scratchbuilding an 83 myself, the cab roof and front end would be the challenge, not to mention the bogies!

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here are some photographs of underframe details for additional information upon the subject.  I bought some DC Kits DMU's from eBay but one kit was was missing underframe detail and so I decided that if I had a swap around of parts I could build a Cravens 105 power twin and transfer the spare bits to the Derby 108 that was missing parts.

 

Upper DC Kits Parts, lower scratch made replacement plasticard parts.

 

First coat of black paint for comarison.

 

The various boxes and tanks are made form differing thickness' of plasticard detailed with an assortment of micro-strip. Tanks and Vacuum cylinders are made up from Plastruct tubing, radiator grilles were scored with a razor saw blade.

 

Gibbo.