Hello I'm new - a few newbie questions

[onlyme123]

Hi there,

 

I thought I would say hi as I'm new.

 

I joined this forum as I now have some time to build my train set I received as a child. It is a Hornby set with a starter track, so I will be investing in more track. I will also be building on a board, but as I am new and a bit rusty, I have a few questions.

 

- I guess it depends on preference, but can anyone recommend a good base size of wood to start building and laying the track on? I know I will need underlay for track, but just getting the basics in place first.

- Can anyone recommend some good magazines that offer subscriptions to get started with (ones with freebies is a plus - I'm a sucker for freebies!)

 

Thank you and I look froward to learning lots about model railways here!

[Dungrange]

Welcome to the forum.

 

With regards a baseboard size, that really depends on how much space you have available and what type of layout you want.   Is it to be a continuous run or an end-to-end layout?   You'll find people who construct layouts that are say four foot long by one foot wide up to those who are fortunate enough to have the space to build something that is 20 or 30 foot long by say 12 or 15 foot wide.  Where do you plan to locate the layout and what access do you have?  A lot of track plans for children's train sets are shown on a six foot by four foot baseboard, but that's not really ideal unless you have access from all sides.  Basically it is difficult to reach more than two to three feet to rescue derailed stock.  Whether you can reach three feet depends on your size and the height of the layout.  The other problem with the typical train set type of layout is the overly tight curves, which don't really look realistic.  However, for those who are space constrained, they may have no other option if they want a continuous run.  Are you aiming for realism (ie a model representing the real railway) or just a train set?

 

As for magazines, you can take out a subscription to whichever you like best - the one that covers articles that align best with your interests.  Railway Modeller, British Railway Modelling, Model Rail and Hornby Magazine would be mainstream magazines that you should probably start by looking at.

 

My advice would be to identify where you're going to locate the railway, what space you have available and what style of operation you want and then think about the baseboards that you need to build or buy to accommodate your plans.

[Philou]

Hello and welcome too,

 

Regarding your specific question of what wood to buy, it would seem the most-used is plywood - 10mm thickness is probably good as you can cut it fairly easily at home. It does need support either on a softwood frame of 2" x 1" (in old money) say 50mm x 25mm OR you can use the same ply to make framing and supports underneath of a depth of say 100mm (4"). Consider also a modular approach. All this means is rather than make one continuous top, you divide your top into units of say 1200mm x 600mm. When it comes to maintenance, or storing away, the units are easier to handle. The downside is that there are more joints.

 

Much will depend on what room you have, where is the room, how much time and money you have and what sort of layout you envisage. Generous curves are better, if you have the space, and these can be achieved by using flexible track - Peco Streamline for example.

 

If you can avoid it, think outside of a 6'x4' or 8'x4' format. There are lots of plan handbooks about - Peco do a plan handbook for their set-track (some nice ideas that can always be adapted and expanded) or there are their Layout Plan Books primarily aimed at using flexible track.

 

The monthly publications mentioned above, usually feature a number of layouts in differing scales AND show the track plans - another source of adopt and adapting.

 

Whilst there are literally hundreds of pages within RMweb, quite a few give ideas for layouts.

 

Good luck,

 

Philip

[The Johnster]

Can I add my welcome to the madness, I mean hobby.  I'd suggest building a 'plank' initially to get something running and test locos and stock.  A plank is a small shunting problem layout on a single piece of wood, and while it isn't obviously the most exciting choice and the Flying Scotsman thundering through with 12 coaches is not going to be possible it can provide a lot of entertainment.  In fact, several contributors here have superb little layouts of this sort, and I suggest you look at 'Sheep Dip' and the layouts that preceded it, and 'Ladmanlow' in 'Layout Topics' here.  The prototypes are 1950s steam, and this may not be your cup of tea, but with current stock and slightly different buildings and scenery you can get a pretty good idea of what can be achieved in very small spaces.

 

This will give you a good feel for what works and what doesn't while you think a bit about what sort of layout you want.  This will depend on your interest, which may be for a particular geographical area or period, recreating actual operation, or just building a train set.  Probably the most important thing to consider is Rule 1.  

 

Rule 1; It's my railway and I'll run what I want to.

Rules 2 to infinity; Irrelevant, all trumped by Rule 1.

 

The limits of what can be done in a given space have already been mentioned, but another early decision is whether the layout is permanent or has to be put away at the end of operating sessions.  This will have a bearing on the type of baseboard design you use, and I will mention that, in addition to Philou's remarks about 6x4 and 8x4 boards,  these are heavy and awkward things to move about, especially as one side contains fragile and delicate models and the other electrical wiring prone to snagging on things.  My advice is to build along the walls of your layout room, but I refer you to Rules 2 to infinity for this.

 

Keep in touch, let us know how you're getting on, and remember that there is no such thing as a stupid question; you will get some stupid answers, though.

 

Stay safe!

[DCB]

The floor works well for a starter set.  We used to take a box of Triang Hornby track locos stock etc on holiday and lay it out in the bungalow we rented. Great fun. Sometimes the lounge but one year we used the Patio.  Sadly my son grew out of it, I didn't.  

6X4 was a common size because it fits a double bed and stands against a wall.  I have one 6ft 4" X 4ft 6" which is exactly the size of our spare bed, it works because only one side is against a wall and the bed has head board and foot board which support the baseboard.  Its no good laying it on a mattress and expecting it to stay level.  

If you can't get round both long sides then even a 6X4 needs an operating well and starts to become a bit pointless.  Which leads on to round the walls of the room or end to end layouts.   Hornby starter sets aren't really suited to end to end operation.

Now my 6ft 4" X 4ft 6" isn't portable, its on three levels has a spiral and return loop, and is buried under my wife's junk, but a single level layout that size to fit the spare bedroom bed when in use and stand against a wall when not is a very well tried and tested way into the hobby, I ran 5 coach trains on mine.  The 60" high line round the 12 X 10 bedroom walls, the 16  X 10 loft layout or 50 X 50 ft garden layout can wait.

[Theakerr]

I am assuming that Plywood in the UK is the same as plywood in Canada and if so suggest you buy Marine Grade and 'good one side.   Marine grade is stronger, less likely to warp or separate when cutting and does not delaminate should it get wet.

[legin]

For what it's worth, I have an 8 x4 baseboard which is 2 cm plywood. This is supported round the outside by 4.5 x 2cm softwood bracing with 2 extra bracing struts at equal intervals along the length.

I have had this for 3 years and it works very well. For part of the year, as dictated by the Domestic Authorities, this is removed to a vertical position for storage. It is very heavy. However, I have had no suggestion of warping at all and the layout runs perfectly at all times. I think that over-engineering the baseboard and supports is the best idea, despite the weight. 

8 x 4 might seem quite small, but I have 90 feet of track on it including 22 points, so it is extremely complicated to work and therefore interesting.

[legin]

Sorry, forgot to add this. I have had great difficulty in driving in the trackpins into the plywood and even more getting them out.. So much so that quite a few pieces of track and all points are screwed down. My solution would be hardboard nailed to the plywood but I haven't tried this as it would mean taking up all the track which has taken light years to get right. Has anyone done this and if so, would the hardboard tend to warp and so defeat the object of the exercise?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Hardboard is at least as pin resistant as ply.

 

Track can be fixed down with adhesive: double sided tape, a light wash with dilute PVA, Copydex, all work and allow subsequent lifting. Best to seal the ply with varnish first.

[The Johnster]

I only use track pins to hold the track steady while the pva goes off.  Start a pinhole with a drill if you are having problems getting them to go in to the wood, and tap them gently with some sort of drift; an old gash screwdriver will to.  Stop when you get the head to sleeper level and no further, as you will distort the sleeper and possibly pull the track out of gauge.  Incidentally I do not use underlay, but glue and pin the track directly to the board, taking care that the baseboard is level and that track is laid level and smooth to the next piece, especially at turnouts; good reliable running is my reward!  I leave the pins in and forget about them once the pva has gone off.  Underlay can be used if you want, and is good at suppressing noise, an important consideration for a layout in a domestic setting, but can just as easily be dispensed with.  It isn't essential is what I'm saying.

 

We are getting ahead of ourselves a bit for the OP's purpose; he hasn't got to the baseboard stage yet!

[Pete the Elaner]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I only use track pins to hold the track steady while the pva goes off.

 

That is why 34C also mentioned Copydex for fixing track. It 'grabs' quickly enough to hold the track in place virtually straight away but does not go off properly for a few minutes. This gives you enough time to adjust track placement (& in my case, finalise re-spacing the sleepers).

 

PVA is great for its intended purpose: sticking wood to wood. It is less suitable for other purposes but often gets used because it is cheap.

[tomparryharry]

For trackpins, find the diameter of the pin you want to use. If it's a 2mm diameter pin, try using a drill of 1.5mm diameter. This gives you a degree of 'interference' fit. On a wooden surface, you can affix pins fairly successfully, without knocking 7 bells out of the track & board. Naturally, wood comes in various forms; close grain or fast grown. Only your personal experience will dictate how you can affix the track to the base. Once you are happy with your layout (and it works to your satisfaction) then you can fix the track in place with a diluted PVA glue mix, as others suggest. Remember that if you use a nail, you might want to get it out, so easy does it! I've got a special nail punch here, when I had access to a lathe. The lathe allowed me to make a slight indent on the punch, enough to 'centre' the trackpin.  Blowed if I can find my pin punch; it's here somewhere.....

 

First & foremost, have fun! This is not a contest, and work at your own speed. For nearly every question, there will be a half-dozen good answers, and all from people who have been there, and probably done that. Some of my kit has been in storage for nearly 40 years, but as I work up to a layout, I'll very deliberately use RM Web as a learning tool. There is some exquisite modelling out there, so enjoy!

 

Best wishes & happy modelling,

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

19 hours ago, legin said:

Sorry, forgot to add this. I have had great difficulty in driving in the trackpins into the plywood and even more getting them out.. So much so that quite a few pieces of track and all points are screwed down. My solution would be hardboard nailed to the plywood but I haven't tried this as it would mean taking up all the track which has taken light years to get right. Has anyone done this and if so, would the hardboard tend to warp and so defeat the object of the exercise?

 

 Hardboard, if properly used, is ideal. Some modellers don't like it, but it's only down to application of material. I have  2 baseboards which use engineered hardboard (oilboard) as the principal framework. Once glued back to back, it's as strong as any ply in the X& Y planes. I use ... (Hang on, measures thickness) 4mm thick board with 25x25 PAR (planed all round) for the corners, so I can use it for screws to bite into. It's not everybody's favourite material, but I used to recover thousands of 4x3' sheets, and it was free. The top board is 4mm ply, and here, use the best you can get, within reason. Here is a photo of a layout base I built because:- A,  the material was free, and B:-  "Oooh" You can't do that". 

 

However, as always, have fun!

 

Ian. 

[The Johnster]

I was permanently put off hardboard by the hopeless baseboards I had as a child, constructed by Buffalo Bill enterprises, aka my dad, all expense spared...

 

Nothing in my life since has changed my mind, and this view is 'informed' by the dreadful experience of flatpack wardrobes with hardboard rear panels.  

[tomparryharry]

12 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I was permanently put off hardboard by the hopeless baseboards I had as a child, constructed by Buffalo Bill enterprises, aka my dad, all expense spared...

 

Nothing in my life since has changed my mind, and this view is 'informed' by the dreadful experience of flatpack wardrobes with hardboard rear panels.  

 

That's alright John; it's not to everyone's taste. I used engineered hardboard because it was free, and adhesives have moved on since we were younger. I wouldn't normally use a hardboard in an exterior application, but this is internal, and highly unlikely to gt anywhere near wet. As far as the top in concerned, I would suggest ply as the first choice. After all, it's what will ultimately become the original posters layout. The picture shows the underside of one of my boards, showing how the frame braces off its neighbour. Glueing a board back-to-back with another with the board side out give a pretty good joint. The PAR parts of the board are 1x1" spacers, made so we can turn through 90 degrees, without loss of integrity.  We (no, I) could have used a quite thin high quality ply, just like one of Tim Horns boards, but the skinflint within me came to the fore....

 

There's a test piece knocking about here, which I made to see what I could expect.  I surprised myself with the outcome, loading over 10 kilos over a metre gap without any flex. That was a double thickness, or 8mm. If we turn it through 90, our 8mm thickness now becomes 76mm. There's no trickery, just how I've used the material to hand.  

 

When I finally get the shed finished, I intend to make some extra boards for a little shunting puzzle we've talked about. For the purposes of our original poster, I'd use ply, as it's a known material. But, our poster has asked about hardboard, hence the reply. Horses for courses.

 

Happy modelling, and stay safe,

Ian.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

55 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

... constructed by Buffalo Bill enterprises, aka my dad, all expense spared...

Wonderful, an essential life lesson that most of us have to experience...

[The Johnster]

I've some truly shameful bits of bodgery to my name, but I'm nowhere near his level...