Proposed new Welsh stations

[Metr0Land]

12 hours ago, Northmoor said:

 

2. When did the Pembroke Dock branch become a Light Railway (also not sure the HoW is either)?  It used to have a 60mph line speed and is fully fenced.  The odd open crossings West of Manobier which require Stop-and-Proceed, have been there for over 50 years.

 

 

A couple of bits of legislation for HoW dating back to 1986/1990 (though I thought these were updating some post-Beeching bits that were made as a compromise to keep the line open).  Must admit I thought Pembroke had become the same but maybe I assumed too much on account of the stop-and-proceed workings on the line.  Nevertheless, the consultants didn't consider any such option for Carmarthen-Aber as a way of keeping costs down.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1223/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/690/contents/made

[Northmoor]

51 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

A couple of bits of legislation for HoW dating back to 1986/1990 (though I thought these were updating some post-Beeching bits that were made as a compromise to keep the line open).  Must admit I thought Pembroke had become the same but maybe I assumed too much on account of the stop-and-proceed workings on the line.  Nevertheless, the consultants didn't consider any such option for Carmarthen-Aber as a way of keeping costs down.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1223/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/690/contents/made

One of the big "selling points" of reopening Carmarthen to Aberystwyth is to reduce the North-South journey time.  For the train to have any appeal at all, the times need to be competitive.  As you said there are likely to be dozens of level crossings on the new stretch (this is assuming they were even legally allowed on a new route); what the average speed would be if you have to slow, even to 20/30 (not even S+P), would be pathetic.  Consider that the Pembroke Dock branch has a 60mph speed limit and the 27-mile journey from Whitland takes an hour..... Kilgetty is on the main road and a fit cyclist could probably get to Pembroke Dock in the same time as the train.

[Metr0Land]

30 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

One of the big "selling points" of reopening Carmarthen to Aberystwyth is to reduce the North-South journey time.  For the train to have any appeal at all, the times need to be competitive.  As you said there are likely to be dozens of level crossings on the new stretch (this is assuming they were even legally allowed on a new route)

 

The final report mentions 147 crossings of the railway by roads, rivers, culverts, foot/farm crossings but unless I've missed it doesn't specify the number of road/farm/foot crossings.  ISTR the feasibility study mentioned a number just shy of 60 of these.  AIUI both NR and the ORR are implaccably resolute in their opposition to any new crossings on the level on new/reinstated railway.  I believe the Sec of State can in exceptional circumstances authorise these, but authorising some 5 dozen would be open to challenge as not within the scope of 'exceptional'.

[SD85]

Surely the easiest way for Wales to get a N-S rail route is to redraw the eastern boundary to incorporate the lost areas of Powys, which would handily transfer the Welsh Marches line onto the correct side of the border (I think).

Edited March 10, 2023 by SD85

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, SD85 said:

Surely the easiest way for Wales to get a N-S rail route is to redraw the eastern boundary to incorporate the lost areas of Powys, which would handily transfer the Welsh Marches line onto the correct side of the border (I think).

You jest, but I suspect if the entire Marches Line was within Wales, WAG members would lose interest in reopening Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, almost completely.

[corneliuslundie]

Well, Oswestry should be in Wales anyway.

Shrewsbury and Hereford might be more difficult to argue, though the Council of the Marches was based in Hereford, I think. I am sure Brother Cadfael would be happy to see Shrewsbury the other side of the border.

Perhaps at the same time you could sort out Llanymynech, where if I understand correctly the border goes down the middle of the main road.

Some hope!

Jonathan

[KingEdwardII]

On 09/03/2023 at 15:42, Metr0Land said:

Aberystwyth-Carmarthen by bus curr 2h8m

Yes - and the car journey Aberystwyth - Cardiff is a shade under 2h 30m, going via Lampeter, Llandovery, Defynnog, Merthyr (a route I first travelled in the 1960s and still the most direct).

 

Predictably, the fastest bus for this route is via Carmarthen and takes nearly 4 hours. Only 1 a day or so - not much demand, it seems. The train via Shrewsbury is only slightly slower.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[corneliuslundie]

I have just checked and currently there are 10 buses a day on weekdays between Aber and Carmarthen, and times as stated above. I am not surprised there is only one on the route suggested by KingEdwardII.  In 1922 there were four trains a day between the towns and the best time was 2 hours 35 minutes. Bui journey times on a reopened line would depend nearly as much on the number of stations open as the maximum speed of the trains.

Anyway, we are in fairy land.

[Metr0Land]

As it happens I went past Bow St station yesterday (a Friday) at 3pm so had a look.  To me this represents 'peak' time as any commuters would still be at work. There were 16 cars in the 70 spaces.

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

As it happens I went past Bow St station yesterday (a Friday) at 3pm so had a look.  To me this represents 'peak' time as any commuters would still be at work. There were 16 cars in the 70 spaces.

Trying to be optimistic, it may be just that it's still early days.  I seem to remember that 2-3 years after opening, the number of passengers using Fishguard & Goodwick had been subsidised to the equivalent of £95 each.  It has improved a lot since then although I think traffic at Fishguard Harbour itself has continued to decline.  This is a long term trend with ferry traffic but opening F&G has probably resulted in local traffic (new and existing) using the new station as it's more convenient.

[Metr0Land]

36 cars at Bow Street last Friday 11:30 - looking quite busy!

[KingEdwardII]

12 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

36 cars at Bow Street

That is probably about 50% of the local population ;-)

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, there were about 30 when I went through about ten days ago, on a Saturday. So presumably not commuters.

I am still puzzled why a Welsh name was not chosen for the station, seeing as it is not even on the same site as the original. And why Bow Street itself doesn't now have a Welsh version. After all, there is a long history of naming stations after a place a couple of miles away. But perhaps not Llanfihangel-geneu'r-glyn which the OS map has an alternative for Llandre (which itself originally had a station with a different name - Llanvihangel).

And it is about time they corrected the on-train announcements.

Jonathan

[KingEdwardII]

5 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

And why Bow Street itself doesn't now have a Welsh version.

The name "Bow Street" has applied to the village for over 200 years - and there does not appear to be a Welsh alternative. 

 

Yours, Mike.

[Northmoor]

Resurrecting this thread, this story from TfW this week:

https://haveyoursay.tfw.wales/sew-new-stations-and-services#:~:text=New stations at Cardiff East,new Cardiff to Bristol services.

 

Might have been better to build these before the wires were put up to make it more expensive to build, but I could see most of these sites being a success.  Considering Caldicot is already very close by, Magor & Undy could potentially replace STJ.  You are going to need some rapid-accelerating units if all the stations are opened though, or Cardiff-Bristol times are going to get about 15 minutes longer.  Since the bridge tolls were removed, rail doesn't need to disadvantage itself along that corridor.

[KingEdwardII]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

this story from TfW this week

Great idea to have new stations to serve communities along the South Wales mainline. Finally addressing the growth of communities along the line over the past half century and more.

 

I doubt whether they will have much effect on traffic along the M4, however.

 

One drawback with the plans is that the introduction of the new stations is planned to involve lengthening the journey times for the longer distance services Portsmouth-Cardiff and Cheltenham-Maesteg. This will be damaging, especially for the Portsmouth-Cardiff services, which most definitely have aspects of long distance "express" type services about them.

 

It might be better to think instead of having frequent commuter style services running Cardiff-Bristol, ideally electric units with their faster acceleration, if full electrification ever happens on the necessary lines.

 

Could probably add an extra station at St Mellons on the eastern outskirts of Cardiff - a big newish community close to the mainline.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

The announcement specifically said new Cardiff to Bristol trains. The existing trains that get extra stops are presumably ones that already stop at STJ.

[KeithHC]

This is nothing new….. This was originally announced along with two new bus routes from Newport to Cardiff when they cancelled the M4 bypass for the Brynglas tunnels. What’s next from the bay a man with a red flag walking in front of every car. Mind you that would reduce unemployment.

 

Keith

[corneliuslundie]

As they don't seem to have enough money to support existing public trans[port in Wales, I shall be surprised if I live long enough to see any of this happen. Sorry.

Jonathan 

[br2975]

3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

As they don't seem to have enough money to support existing public trans[port in Wales, I shall be surprised if I live long enough to see any of this happen. Sorry.

Jonathan 

.

Agreed - Despite a huge hole in the Cardiff Bay budget, and swingeing cuts announced for education, health etc - TfW are to receive an extra £150,000,000 to avoid service cuts and redundancies) and their Chief Executive feels more will be needed over the next few years.