Horton

[ColinK]

On 13/02/2024 at 21:19, mac1960 said:

Just found out that Horton Quarry is being resurrected ,hopefully this summer. They say on Wiki that  rail link stopped mid 60,s I thought it was early to mid 70,s anybody know?  Don’t worry there will not be any 66,s on Horton, though given the lack of change up there you could go to Blue Diesel and Tarmac / Tilcon wagons easily.

 

Cheers

Mr Mac

From what I’ve heard two sidings are going to be laid immediatly south of Horton for loading stone (it currently goes by road to Ribblehead).  Because trains reversing into the new sidings will block the foot crossing to the northbound platform, Horton is going to get a footbridge, and - wait for it - lifts.  The lifts are required to provide disabled access to the northbound platform.  The locals are not happy as the lifts will be very visable.  Note that the foot crossing is also part of The Pennine Way path, resulting in up to 3,000 people a day crossing the tracks.

[mac1960]

They used to block the footpath when it was  open before as you can see from the videos of Black 5 shunting the sidings. I am also a little sceptical of 3000 people a day and I do know it’s on the 3 Peaks walk not Pennine Way . Pennine Way comes over Pen-Y-Gent from Malham Tarn  then heads up Ribblesdale I have walked both. 

I think the 3000 doing all or part of 3 Peaks maybe a once a year or so spike as I have certainly never seen that many though it’s an about 10 years since I last did it. 

 

As for disabled access it does seem an expensive way of managing a problem , especially when the lifts break down which they will.

 

Ramps would be better if you really need to do it. It would be intriguing to see the figures for disabled use of the facilities there to get an idea of the scope of the issue compared with other  Stations which largely do not have bridges or indeed underpasses on the S&C.

Oh and before anyone shouts me down on disability discrimination,  my wife is clinically disabled from a hit and run in 1997, but won’t admit it 👍, so I am well aware of the issues.

 

It is good however to see the return of rail hauled stone freight .

 

 

Edited February 17 by mac1960

[mac1960]

Well a couple of pictures with the back scene on with its Grey undercoat on. There is not any change to anything else yet, but I thought it was worth posting them as it sort of brings the foreground to life . Indeed as Richard said it would make a good diorama even without the railway ! I did mention further back up that if we had known how well this would have worked we would have forgone the building of the station and goods facilities, and just gone for something simpler like Selside with a loop / siding  perhaps, maybe next time ! Anyway its the weekend and unfortunately chores beckon. 

 

[mac1960]

Well just a few pictures this weekend showing the arrival of signals, but they are just being temporarily placed at the moment, and further discussion as to back scene location with reference to the major land form on the back scene, which is a depiction of Pen- Y-Gent. We feel its profile fits well with the line of the cottages, and is pleasing to the eye even though in reality it is slightly NE of the station, but this is not Horton in Ribblesdale ,it is just the feel of the place, which we hope we have captured.

Also a picture of the detailing work which has gone on around the station. There are a few people cropping up, but not many as generally the sheep to people ration as Richard says is 1 person to 10 sheep. His parents live in Grassington so I bow to the local knowledge in this !     

 

Lastly and perhaps more importantly after I had left the first locomotive turned a wheel on Horton, the first in probably 2 years !! Its good to know that the electronics still work after all this scenery work !

 

 

Edited February 25 by mac1960

[mac1960]

Just got these from Richard (apologies for the formatting but leaving tonight and dont have time to muck about) Suffice to say as you can see trains are indeed running on Horton and dont fall off after around 2 hrs of running. Also looking at positioning some other bits of kit like the cliche of Bus on a bridge, but all vehicle's need toning down just a bit in colour, as too just out of the box at the moment. Signals have to have their base removed and sat into the ballast. There has also been further learning for the pair of us on the AWS system and magnets etc and ground signals !!   

Edited February 25 by mac1960

[mac1960]

On 14/02/2024 at 18:51, scottystitch said:

This is excellent modelling, in any scale.  Really talented modellers at work.  

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Scott

Sorry I somehow missed your post. Thank you very much for the kind comments re our efforts on Horton. Not too far to go now we hope, though do they ever really finish as such ?

Cheers

Mac 

[mac1960]

Just a couple of photos tonight. A little cameo of the station masters wife brushing the outside steps (something my Grandmother did and then edged in White Paint, I am not sure why but pretty common back then). The others are of the recently sighted signals set in the Ballast. So not much but thought you may like to see.    

 

[mac1960]

Just a couple of photos received today (I am on my travels). One of the foot path crossing and the other is from the viewing area with the temporary bar across. The bar is because it makes it easier to work on rather than the full fascia which actually goes there.

 

This is the fascia which holds the lighting bars for the scenic area and forms the top of the stage to go back to my theatre analogy of this build. The two back scene areas painted in Grey primer and the central section which is being done in one piece means that we will only have 2 backscene breaks and  Richard is confident that they will not be too noticeable. From his description I think the painting maybe more JMW Turner ie swirling mists and clouds and not very much Blue sky ie a typical Dales autumn day.

 

Below the scenic section you can just see part of the quite extensive fiddle yard for the size of layout which has 5 loops in each direction with the longer ones being able to take two rakes depending on the  size of train. In reality most of the trains running over the S&C were quite long back then in both passenger and freight with the exception of the few locals and pick up goods. The Anhydrite train though undoubtedly heavy when full was quite short in comparison with some of the normal freight operating over the route.    

 

 

[mac1960]

Well Richard got out his HB pencil and went for it as they say, and you can see the results below. Its been a long time coming as those of you who have stuck with us over the years will appreciate, but we are on the final leg of this layout, and you can now really see what we were trying to achieve. If we make you feel that you are on a hill in the Yorkshire Dales in autumn looking down on the S&C in the mid 1960,s then we have done a good job. Let us know if it does.  Painting starts next week !!   

Edited March 2 by mac1960

[mac1960]

Just thought I would post this picture of the real thing taken on a hill above Horton in Ribblesdale (the railway is immediately below you with only the top of the station masters house visible through the tree tops) on reconnaissance mission in autumn about 5 years ago. 

[JRSS]

I have to say, as someone who regularly spends a bit of time in the dales , the whole project is stunning and the backscene is superb and sets the layout off beautifully.

 

Thanks for sharing all the updates, very enjoyable watching your progress.

[mac1960]

JRSS

Thank you for the kind comments, and I am sorry we have taken so long to get to this stage, where some other models seem to be completed in no timeframe at all. However we have had some issues which you will be aware of, if you have read all my ramblings, that sort of got in the way, and understandably so.

 

However I am glad you appreciate what we are about with this model. I can’t stress it enough but we are both believers in putting the railway in the landscape and not the other way around if you understand what I mean and N gauge or 2mm are ideal for this given the size of most houses, unless you are fortunate to have a small Georgian pile with stables etc, when 00 or larger could be achieved.
I would like to do a smaller urban one, which would be easier to take to exhibitions when I finally get bored with the 1 to 1 scale, which  I work in for the day job. I thought the South Manchester line through Oxford Road would be interesting, modelled in the swinging 60,s with the overhead electrics and steam and diesel and a more urban setting, with the line sort of hidden in and amongst the buildings, and similar in size to Staly Vegas but we will see. 

 

Anyway the painting of the back scene starts next week, but I think it may take a little longer than the pencil sketch ! We are going to give Pen -Y -Gent a little light snow or heavy Haw frost to its top as we think it will enhance that autumn feeling we are trying to weave into Horton. 
 

Thanks once again for sticking with us. 
 

Cheers

Mac
 

 

 

Edited March 3 by mac1960

[mac1960]

I have an interesting question for those following this. We have a possible photo shoot for a magazine and wondered what iconic trains we should feature. 
As a stater we think Thames Clyde , Anhydrite,, Bradford Stopper, Stourton afternoon freight for starters. Could I ask if there are any others you can think of ?

 

Another thing does anybody know the coach  layout for TC ie First back or front for a starter’s. 
 

Any help appreciated.

 

Cheers

Mac

[mac1960]

Well a few photos of the start of the colour palate as its called I am told but still away to go. We are dropping the amount of Snow / Haw Frost on Pen Y Gent as well as it was starting to look more like Mount Fuji. oh and we are moving it a tad as well ! However I think you can see what we are aiming for. 

 

Incidentally I got the detail on the composition of the Thames Clyde Express and un like today 1st Class was scattered with in the train around the Buffet / Restaurant car. The other thing which I had totally forgotten (shows how long since I was last on a locomotive hauled train) they had 2nd class breaks at both ends which is sensible when you consider the issues of running around. Anyway will post more when we have stopped moving mountains around and colours are more fixed. 

 

 

[mac1960]

Well some more photos of the painted back scene in place, which for some reason have come out in a small size when up loaded and I am not sure why. There was some train movement just to check  nothing was catching. Predictably all the diesels were fine but the Dapol 9F had some clashes with the valve gear which were easily remedied. Also we dropped the size of the signal on the North end of the station, and introduced the painted White square on the bridge (these were done to aid crew sighting the signal arm) and are iconic to the Coal Road Bridge at Dent, so I thought it would be good if we had one as well, though cutting down the signal was a nervous undertaking.

 

There is further painting to be done on the back scene just to complete it, other than that we are largely done with the modelling. We had to remove the AWS ramps however as they constantly fouled locomotives, even when cut down slightly surprisingly. There is the external painting to be done of the frame and the fitting of a suitable material to act as a skirt, which was measured today, and a suitable colour chosen, and its not Black ! Anyway I am away on my travels in Africa again so it will be a few weeks before I see the model again though Richard said he would send further photos when the back scene is finally completed.

 

As always please feel free to give us any feed back or comment or indeed questions on Horton and I will do my best to answer them and I will try to get some enlarged photos later.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17 by mac1960
Photos were wrong

[mac1960]

 

Well sorted out what the photo issue was but just received these as the weather has been poor, so Richard completed the back scene on these two boards below, so will just leave these in place. Just the other one to complete the full back scene at the North end.

 

I have to say it really does evoke the Dales now and its weather. Interestingly we were discussing the thing that most evokes the area and feel of the S&C on the project, and made the biggest difference, you maybe surprised to hear that we both think it is the Drystone walling we used supplied by Osbournes and the Grasses from Mini Nature (Germany) procured through the New Model Shop in Peterborough.     

 

 

[JRSS]

I have commented before but I have to agree with you, the layout just oozes the dales. The backscene is superb. 

 

With the talk about skirts and exterior paint work can I ask if you have plans to exhibit? 

 

Thanks for the updates and photos, very inspiring.

 

All the best

Jonathan 

[mac1960]

JRSS

The paintwork is for the outer screen, or walls of the stage as I would perhaps best describe it, and just makes it look finished and also helps with visual aspect of the model. The "skirt" is just to make it look finished and tidy as Mrs Mac prefers to see less 240v cables, and as the room it is going in is up stairs in our house, and she walks passed it a couple of times a day she has a quite legitimate say. 

 

As for exhibiting it we have not given it that much thought, and it’s not the easiest to dismantle and re-erect when at home, though it would be easy to build in a hall. The other factor is work unfortunately, and weather as we live quite high up, so winter could be challenging moving in and out. After its completed and bedded in we might have to see, because I would like people to see it, and for those involved in supplying parts etc to see the fruits of their labourers in the setting intended. It would be easier perhaps for longer shows maybe, like York for example, rather than a one or even two day show. However we are getting ahead of ourselves, and of course it’s rather presumptuous of us to even think of shows like York when nobody has seen it, how ever Richard has a good track record at that show so you never know.

 

In April we will be having a running day with some of the more iconic trains which were present on the line at the time, and I will post photos of these as and when. However please dont mention split head code Peaks, as we are having to await those being made currently by Rapido, so we are still on older GF ones but with correct Head Codes and altered bogies. Rapido are doing Class 44 first which despite their names never really came up the S&C as far as I know unless a publicity thing. However unfortunately split head codes were the earlier ones to come to Holbeck and for me are always the ones I associate with the line, but we will just have to wait and see how long Rapido take to get to the Class 45 as we do need two.

 

Cheers

Mac      

Edited March 18 by mac1960

[mac1960]

Well just got back from my travels last night and received these of the completed tweaked Horton. Further work was carried out on the back scene and some finer details, and detritus of the railway scene back then added. The joints in the back scene boards are not too noticeable, and the colours and detailing and perspective look really well.

 

Horton has now been dismantled so that the legs can be lowered by around 200mm as we found that working at its current height would cause some issues with track cleaning etc and of course the inevitable derailment in operation with back scene in place ! Also the fascia has to be painted and it will then be re built facing the other way in the room its currently in for its photo call in late April. After that I hope to have it back home for the May Day weekend fingers crossed.

 

We will be having a running in day with certain iconic trains like the Thames Clyde Express, Anhydrite freight, Bradford Stopper, Jubilee Powered Express, the local DMU stopper (steam left this before our time period) and an assortment of other freights.
 

There were other interesting services like the sleeper services and Motorail services (as they would become) and the Bescott Carlisle via Leeds Freight  which was the longest freight service by the same crew in the country at the time, and had the Mechanical Stoker fitted 9F for traction. Also of course there was the Condor service which was Double Headed Class 26 or 25  by our time frame I believe. 
 

However all these latter workings traversed the route over night and or in the early hours, and in the autumn this would be in the dark obviously. Even though we can play with the lighting, pitch Black as it would be (and even more so back then) in the Dales is pretty  well dark, and you would be able to see very little other than lights from the locomotive, and maybe the odd light on a farm building if Mr Herriot, or the local equivalent was visiting . The station lights would be out, as the station closed at night, and the Signal Box would have its lights dimmed to aid the signalman's night vision when watching passing trains for hot boxes or tail lights etc.

 

The trains themselves were 95% freight apart from the aforementioned sleeper and Motorail Services and indeed the S&C really came alive at night with freight, which is demonstrated by some of the signal boxes being unmanned during the daylight hours due to the paucity of traffic. So there was little point in modeling these movements as in reality there would be very little to see as a viewer , and indeed there are very few photos of the services. I think I have seen one of a Britannia on the North Bound Motorail service near Ribblehead which was in high summer, and the service may have been running late and it is not a great photo, just unusual. 

 

Anyway I will post photos of the completed painted fascia and the forementioned trains on the running days in April, as I am now working in the UK until June, so all being well Horton should be home and active before then.

 

As always please come back on photos or my ramblings, as everyday is a school day as an old boss of mine used to say !

 

May I wish you all a Happy Easter Weekend, and hope for better weather during it, as its not looking promising up here.

 

Cheers

Mac

 

                      

 

 

 

Edited March 29 by mac1960

[APOLLO]

When your train stops at the exact location for a photo out of the window from your seat. Perfect weather also, a rare sunny day "up there" !!  Ist Sept 2022, 1450 Carlisle -Leeds.

 

 

Brit15

[mac1960]

Apollo

Thank you for the photo. We did get Sankey Signs to make a miniature version of that for Horton. However the setting for our model was when the line was a little more distressed in the mid 60,s shall we say so. The garden's had seen better days by then though.
 

Cheers

 

[APOLLO]

I forgot to mention I do really like your gloomy, rainy dramatic skies, very S&C indeed.

 

Mid 60's was my first trip on the S&C, the 12.0 stopper from Hellifield to Carlisle. The S&C is in seemingly good shape these days, especially the stations.

 

I once modelled Garsdale, the control panel was better than the layout !!!!

 

 

Brit15

[mac1960]

Apollo

Thanks for the comments on the back scene. It’s good to know that you were there at the time, and therefore you can tell us what we have done wrong or right as far as you recollect , as neither of us were obviously present, and our knowledge is all based on photo and video from back then. The photo is a bit dark so cant see that much but control panel does look very good as you say.

Cheers

Edited March 30 by mac1960

[mac1960]

 

Well as you can see below we actually had some stock running yesterday, and the perimeter has been painted as you can see from the smaller photos underneath . There were some issues not unsurprisingly, notably with 9F front pony trucks which dont like Double Slips !! The latter maybe be able to be improved by changing the front Pony Trucks to ones with a slightly deeper flange, however as you can see the Britannia's had no such issues, and an 8F did the  honours on the Long Meg.

 

I was away for this, but back today, so will pop down later this week as I think I have the Pony Trucks already as it is a none issue, its just finding them !

 

I will post some more when back.

Cheers

Mr Mac   

Edited April 14 by mac1960

[mac1960]

Well I have been working, but my co conspirator has been playing trains and sent me the following, so I thought I would post these as we have been preparing for a magazine photo shoot tomorrow. So see what you think.

  Firstly the local Ribble Bus crosses the northerly slew bridge in a ray of natural sunshine courtesy of the skylight. It really looks like a natural Sunbeam which I suppose it is. 

 

An 8F heads North for Kingmoor.  

 

Another 8F rattles South through Horton with a fitted freight for Stourton.

 

Th steel train seen early passes the goods shed.

 

Jubilee Sturdee head north on a Leeds to Carlisle parcels with Pen y Gent as a back drop. 

 

 

 

Edited April 19 by mac1960